Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

CinematicFusion

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Rasvar said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to see something fast tracked. When you fast track, you tend to cut corners to get it done and pay more for it. I'd rather see them work on concept for a year and flesh things out instead of announcing items and then having them vaporize. Make the announcement when shovel hits the dirt and the plans are under construction. At this point, I don't care if it takes until 2018 or 2019 as long as it is well thought out, well designed and a serious value adder.
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Good, because that is the game plan. Disney is very patient.
Test track took 4 years to complete
Mission space 3 years
Cars land 6 years
FLE will take 6 years
Problems arise, budget problems, different delays, what ever the reason. Disney's track record is a slow pace. They aren't in a hurry.
We are looking at a 2016-17 if work begins today.
 
ChrisM

ChrisM

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
How many billionaires do you know? How many have you worked with or have intimate knowledge of? How many heads of Fortune 500 companies have you known ... not just a handshake, but really known?

I have known my share. And I've dealt with my share. They aren't like the rest of us because they can act like we don't exist, like we're wallpaper.

Because while I agree there are no absolutes and there are billionaries with hearts of gold. There are so many more who look at the rest of us like we're cattle in a field ... and those folks buy control of our government as they control corporations.

What's worse is through the politicos they buy, they make ignorant trailer people think that they too one day can go from that part-time $10.15 an hour job to living in a Beverly Hills mansion. We all know that's a lie.
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How many billionaires do I know? Two, actually.

One is a bit of an old school recluse, the most wealthy alumnus of my alma mater and quite possibly the most miserable prick that has ever walked God's green Earth. The other is a paper billionaire and very young (although it's possible his paper worth has dipped below the billion level). He is also quite possibly certifiably insane (and has laughed directly in my face when I've soberingly explained to him his business model is unsustainable, but he'll find that out soon enough). There are two others I've crossed paths with on several occasions but would never claim I know them. Feel free to PM me if you must know more.

But billionaires are a rare breed (there are only about 400 in the US to begin with) and I seriously think you overstate their influence overall. I know a vast number of non-billionaire level "1 percenters" who, as a group, I think wield far more collective influence.

And guess what? The overwhelming majority of them weren't born into money and inherited nothing. They moved through the rollercoaster of various income strata of their own accord. In my former partnership, five fellow partners I knew quite well grew up on family farms and literally went from something close to living in a trailer to multi-million dollar penthouses or lavish mansions in exclusive enclaves. And they are all very good people.

Be careful with your broad brush, 74. You aren't the only traveler out there, and not every denizen of this small outpost is a penniless rube inhabiting their mother's basement. Although occasionally the thought does seem vaguely appealing in a "return to a simpler time" sort of way.
 
Jim Possible

Jim Possible

Active Member
ChrisM said:
How many billionaires do I know? Two, actually.
But billionaires are a rare breed (there are only about 400 in the US to begin with) and I seriously think you overstate their influence overall. I know a vast number of non-billionaire level "1 percenters" who, as a group, I think wield far more collective influence.

And guess what? The overwhelming majority of them weren't born into money and inherited nothing. They moved through the rollercoaster of various income strata of their own accord. In my former partnership, five fellow partners I knew quite well grew up on family farms and literally went from something close to living in a trailer to multi-million dollar penthouses or lavish mansions in exclusive enclaves. And they are all very good people.
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I'd agree with that.

In fact, "old money" is often classier than the nouveau riche. There's not as much to prove. At least that's been my experience. YMMV.

Meanwhile, some of the greediest people I've ever run across have been comparatively poor.

(And without divulging too much personal info here, I work closely with the gas and oil industries. Lotsa one percenters over in these here parts. Sadly, I am not one, but I digress...)

People are people. You've got the good, bad, and the ugly. Money just enables some to be uglier than others.

Soooo... um... how about that Fantasyland expansion? ;)
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
Nah. Pandora: The World of Giant Blue Alien Sex Kittens will be coming to DAK ... keep telling yourself that, fanbois.

My sources in LA, which I guarantee are better than anyone else here, say the films are a mess and so far behind Cameron's own delayed schedule, that the next film may not see the theaters until as late as 2016 or even 2017 ... and that means you can bet that the Disney project remains treading water.

And, no, my opinion won't change because Disney moves a character meet-greet-and grope inside ... or decides to close FotLK (and save $$$ because of it).

When I see VERTICAL construction and actual blueprints, then I'll believe you'll see this project.

Anyone want to bet me that you'll see something major at TPFKaTD-MGMS first?
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Regardless of the IGN report, I believe that the next new ride to open outside of the MK will happen in DHS.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
EMH was incredibly busy at Magic Kingdom on Sunday, and I was beginning to regret going down over Labor day weekend. Then I heard the amount of checkouts that were happening on Monday. Cut to Wednesday at the Magic Kingdom where at 3:30 PM, Space Mountain was a walk on. Peter Pan's Flight had a 25 minute wait at 1:30 in the afternoon. I've never seen the park more dead, and I was there during evening EMH during the Saints/Colts Super Bowl
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Please don't even give that ign piece credit by calling it a report

Alas you call this post a report because I could tell you of a thread on wdw magic where someone posted a picture of something.

That piece was a throw back to the dark days of blogging where people just tried to rewrite other articles they read
 
K

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
That Jim Hill article provides very little (if anything) in the way of actual insight, and his opinions have been articulated countless times by posters on this forum and numerous others... so I'm wondering what (if anything) the articles in his media "empire" really offer.

In essence, I can get better information and more eloquent discussion from fellow posters on WDWMagic... and without having to put up with JH's idiosyncratic turns of phrase (read: verbal tics).
 
Rasvar

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
He lost me when he started to include Golden Oak. It adds nothing to the guest experience except for the whales that Disney wants to bring in. Maybe if they would stop building DVC's and more hotel rooms, they could then refocus on the parks and trying to get their resorts to the point where they don't have to discount as much as they are. DVC's and Golden Oaks are quick and dirty ROI's. At a certain point, if your core product begins to falter, you start to the kill the "Golden Oaks".
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
CinematicFusion said:
I'm playing devils advocate and trying to get into the heads at Disney. If everything is in dire straights as suggested inside the halls at Disney, then we should expect major expansions to be fast tracked and news should be coming within the close of the year.

I would love to see it. But IMHO history shows Disney doesn't fast track. FLE from the D3 reveal to total completion will take 6 years. Cars land took I believe 6 years. Avatar was announced and then quickly snuggled into development hell which it will reside for quite sometime. We are looking at present time, a major expansion announced today would be completed by 2017.
Disney execs must have a reason for their patience and indecision? I was doing my best to get inside their heads as far as the orlando parks are concerned.
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I understand you doing so. And that's fine ... but Disney can't be slow any longer. They are taking the TTA when UNI and SW are building high speed rail. Something's gotta give.

In 1982 without any of the amazing technology available today, Disney built EPCOT Center in three years from shovel to opening.

Today? It takes five years to get meet-greet-and-gropes and kiddie coasters opened.

You can't compete like that. It just won't work. There are people at TDO that finally know that ...
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Rasvar said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to see something fast tracked. When you fast track, you tend to cut corners to get it done and pay more for it. I'd rather see them work on concept for a year and flesh things out instead of announcing items and then having them vaporize. Make the announcement when shovel hits the dirt and the plans are under construction. At this point, I don't care if it takes until 2018 or 2019 as long as it is well thought out, well designed and a serious value adder.
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I disagree.

EPCOT didn't have any corners cut. TDS didn't. DLP either etc.

The time Disney is taking to build small-scale projects is maddening. Moving a spinner becomes a giant production for them. C'mon!
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
CinematicFusion said:
Good, because that is the game plan. Disney is very patient.
Test track took 4 years to complete
Mission space 3 years
Cars land 6 years
FLE will take 6 years
Problems arise, budget problems, different delays, what ever the reason. Disney's track record is a slow pace. They aren't in a hurry.
We are looking at a 2016-17 if work begins today.
Click to expand...

Carsland at DCA didn't start construction until 2010. It opened in 2012.

But Disney's track record sucks, if that was your point.
 
WildcatDen

WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
Got to love cut and paste. Makes for portable thread responses. . .
Don't waste anytime coming to King's Island. Same old same old, but I do think the napkins may be themed. . .
We will b heading to UNI-Orlando next March for a Fame Show Choir event. Looking forward to it. My daughter wants to do Disneyland for a 'Senior" trip. Next year may be a good time to do it. Of course, if more announcements are on the way, would waiting another year or two be wiser?
 
S

steamboat wil

Active Member
So is whatever that may or may not be happening in DHS or WDW going to be fast tracked as a sense of urgency, or will these upcoming projects (if they do come at some point) be put on the same drawn out snails pace that has been the norm for years.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
ChrisM said:
But billionaires are a rare breed (there are only about 400 in the US to begin with) and I seriously think you overstate their influence overall. I know a vast number of non-billionaire level "1 percenters" who, as a group, I think wield far more collective influence.

And guess what? The overwhelming majority of them weren't born into money and inherited nothing. They moved through the rollercoaster of various income strata of their own accord. In my former partnership, five fellow partners I knew quite well grew up on family farms and literally went from something close to living in a trailer to multi-million dollar penthouses or lavish mansions in exclusive enclaves. And they are all very good people.
Click to expand...

Obviously, I don't know (or maybe I do, who knows, small world and all that jazz) who you know. I do know that the vast majority of uber-wealthy people I have met (those worth $100 million and up) all UNIversally either grew up with money or married into it. None of them were ever middle class, let alone working class or poor ... well except for some NBA players. But we aren't talking about Shaq or LeBron or Kevin Durrant here, are we?

ChrisM said:
Be careful with your broad brush, 74. You aren't the only traveler out there, and not every denizen of this small outpost is a penniless rube inhabiting their mother's basement. Although occasionally the thought does seem vaguely appealing in a "return to a simpler time" sort of way.
Click to expand...

This is one exception where the broad brush is best. It isn't completely accurate, but it does a whole lot better job on the canvas than a paint by numbers little bitty brush. I feel pretty safe in my opinions regarding most Americans who possess extreme wealth. ... And when did I ever say I was the only traveler? or that everyone here was a penniless rube (penniless rubes can't spend $650 a night for a 3-star room at the Poly!)
 
juan

juan

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
I disagree.

EPCOT didn't have any corners cut. TDS didn't. DLP either etc.

The time Disney is taking to build small-scale projects is maddening. Moving a spinner becomes a giant production for them. C'mon!
Click to expand...

But Disney is having to deal with a lot more permitting, labor issues, and other red-tape that they didn't have to worry as much about in 1982.

Epcot only took as long as its critical path items. With enough labor, equipment, and money anything could get done in a quick amount of time.
Hypothetically, you could have 20+ paving crews and pave all of Epcot's paths in the entire park in a week or two.

I do see that the labor-intensive rock work and monitoring the spending so that the money falls into the right month's/quarter's budgets is keeping many of the new projects very slow. Until TDO is ready to spend all of the money upfront, the progress will be slow,
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
RSoxNo1 said:
Regardless of the IGN report, I believe that the next new ride to open outside of the MK will happen in DHS.
Click to expand...

I have said the same thing and stand behind it.

RSoxNo1 said:
EMH was incredibly busy at Magic Kingdom on Sunday, and I was beginning to regret going down over Labor day weekend. Then I heard the amount of checkouts that were happening on Monday. Cut to Wednesday at the Magic Kingdom where at 3:30 PM, Space Mountain was a walk on. Peter Pan's Flight had a 25 minute wait at 1:30 in the afternoon. I've never seen the park more dead, and I was there during evening EMH during the Saints/Colts Super Bowl
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That stands to reason. The two weeks post Labor Day are the slowest of the year. They weren't much better at DL ... talked to a friend yesterday while he waited in the extremely long 15-minute single riders line for RSRs at DCA after waiting 10 minutes to walk on Space Mountain and didn't wait at all for PoC across the esplanade. I'm really wishing I was out there already. I have the feeling the crowds will arrive with the Spirit.

Are you staying on property? Giving Disney your money for the Pixie Dust and MAGICal buses?
 

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