Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[WDW1974]

I got your point. I acknowledged it when I said usually people will give you terrible excuses as to why you didn't get a job or you didn't get accepted to a school etc. My point was I thought labeling an entire company as one that does not desire imagination after speaking with only one representative was a bit overblown. Am I defending TDO as a perfect company? heck no. I listed what I felt was wrong in my previous post.

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole, but mostly he was telling you the truth.

I have been involved with the company and its employees at all levels (from front line theme park to television producers and filmmakers to the CEO) since the 1990s ... and the reason WDW is a shell of what it once was and should be again is because imagination and TALENT are not cherished.

Making excuses for a huge media goliath like TWDC isn't a good way to spend your lifetime. They pay people (some who hide on sites like this) to do just that.

 

[tomman710]

Mickey Morlocks.

Oh, I hear you. In my current day job, I work directly under a VeeP who has no clue about the day to day operations of my department. In fact, you start asking the right questions and you'll realize that he knows very little about the company in general.

But he has an MBA, and did some time at Harvard, so he gets a pass and is the "face" of our division at the board meetings. (Just be sure to throw softball questions, Mr. Board Member!)

Just sad that The House That Walt Built turned into IBM along the way.

And again, other companies will hire the best and the brightest -- often despite their educational background.

This is why even in animated feature films -- an industry Disney once completely owned -- they're getting lapped. Again and again.

And it's happening in the parks, too.

Time to go back to the basics, I think. Time to take a good hard look at what got Disney to the top in the first place...

Just my opinion.

Exactly,I think that's the point we are all trying to make ... go back to what worked.

 

[WDW1974]

Barks didn't get much love from Disney proper when he was alive, as I understand it. He wasn't even allowed to sign his name to the comics (all Disney comics were branded as Walt Disney's Whatever) and it took some comics fans sleuthing around to find out who the "Good Duck Artist" was.

Again, though, my point is that if you look at the best and brightest Disney had throughout its heyday, imagination and hard work trumped education every time.

I dunno what happened exactly or when they got derailed from Walt's ideals, but it's a shame to hear that there's this impenetrable wall of corporate bureaucracy today's best and brightest need to pass through to get in the door. And when they do, even more hurdles that need to be jumped before they can actually accomplish anything.

And that's why other companies are out-Disney-ing Disney.

Mid-90s was when things started to go to hell for Disney. Problem was they were able to disguise it for years. Even this supposed 'Disney hater' didn't start to notice the Pixie Dust wasn't what it once was until around 2000. By then things were spiraling down in every unit of the company (except for ESPN!) ... P&R ... ABC ... Studios ... Consumer Products ... Go.com ... FOX Family ... DRE ... Angels/Mighty Ducks ... should I go on?

 

[WDW1974]

I hope we get something new at DHS first, any new news on that by the way?

Not that I've heard.

Or ... more to the point ... that I can source accurately.

But lots of talk behind the scenes.

I'd see LMA soon if you like that show. No matter what happens in the project that thing is history.

 

[Jim Possible]

Mid-90s was when things started to go to hell for Disney. Problem was they were able to disguise it for years. Even this supposed 'Disney hater' didn't start to notice the Pixie Dust wasn't what it once was until around 2000. By then things were spiraling down in every unit of the company (except for ESPN!) ... P&R ... ABC ... Studios ... Consumer Products ... Go.com ... FOX Family ... DRE ... Angels/Mighty Ducks ... should I go on?

Even Pixar seems to be losing its luster since the acquisition, IMHO. Cars 2... Brave... Monsters 2... Nemo 2... I can't see a Disney-owned Pixar taking a risk on something like The Incredibles again.

 

[WDW1974]

Even Pixar seems to be losing its luster since the acquisition, IMHO. Cars 2... Brave... Monsters 2... Nemo 2... I can't see a Disney-owned Pixar taking a risk on something like The Incredibles again.

I still haven't seen Cars 2 (only Pixar film) so I can't comment, but that film was designed more to sell merchandise and it did so brilliantly, while doing decent at the BO.

I thought Brave was actually a very good film, not one of the best, nor worst.

Sequels are a natural ... but you still have originals too like Brave ... and the 2015 release. They aren't going to go with all sequels.

 

[HMF]

You can repeat this until you are as blue in the face as a Pandoran, but people (especially in the USA) want to believe that people in authority (whether they are a WDW VP, a local Congressman, the head of a major US bank, their local clergyman, the university president etc.) somehow are BETTER and SMARTER than the rest of us.

I mean, if Phil Holmes wasn't better than any of us, why aren't we running the MK instead of about it, right?

The standard talking point these days is that those who are not in a position of authority, Status or wealth are either too lazy or too stupid to be in those positions. It's preposterous but that's what it boils down to with some people.

 

[Jim Possible]

I still haven't seen Cars 2 (only Pixar film) so I can't comment, but that film was designed more to sell merchandise and it did so brilliantly, while doing decent at the BO.

I thought Brave was actually a very good film, not one of the best, nor worst.

Sequels are a natural ... but you still have originals too like Brave ... and the 2015 release. They aren't going to go with all sequels.

Cars 2 was terrible. First outright Pixar failure IMHO.

Haven't seen Brave yet, but its been getting a "meh" reaction. But seriously, where do you go after Up?

I wouldn't be so apprehensive about the sequels/prequels had Cars 2 not been such an Edsel.

 

[WDW1974]

The standard talking point these days is that those who are not in a position of authority, Status or wealth are either too lazy or too stupid to be in those positions. It's preposterous but that's what it boils down to with some people.

Of course it is. That's how you keep the status quo. You make it an attack on those who have power. Those who don't are simply lazy and want it given to them. That's the mantra. Work hard for $7 an hour in this GREAT country of ours and you can be anything, goes the bull&*^t line. And it doesn't change no matter what aspect of this you are discussing in Disney or in our society.

There was a time when you could be say ... a cashier working at Pecos Bill Cafe and within five years be an area manager at the MK and within 10 years be solid middle management with the possibility of the TDO suites.

Today, you can be a freaking genius/workaholic, Disney freak (who doesn't point out how much more than his/her bosses he/her knows) and you will NEVER get beyond being a guest service manager at the Pop Century food court.

 

[Bolna]

Carl Barks was a farmer turned (self taught) artist.

I'm sure many people here don't have the slightest clue who Barks was (Google him). But he was awesome.

I think here in Germany he might be the second most recognised name connected to Disney after Walt himself. But this is the country where Disney more or less equals comic books...

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

This discussion is so depressing for someone aspiring to work with the company a few years from now... It's sad to hear that this is the same company that was "started by a mouse" and the 9 old men or the one that was revived by two Broadway musical talents and some fresh animators that grew from within the company.

I don't have 74's contacts or resources but I wholeheartedly agree that it's foolish for anyone to think that one of us couldn't run the place better than some of the suits at TDO. It's a bit tragic when fans of the company believe that, considering the man that founded the place almost ran the company into the ground over and over because of creative decisions, yet always came through because those decisions proved to be the strongest profit of all.

 

[Longhairbear]

Kevin Yee, come over here and tell us about WDW trying to save the bottom line by cutting A/C costs. It was an interesting read over on MiceAge. Didn't the managers of the new stores at DCA open the front doors to entice customers to come in go against the policy to save on A/C at DCA by keeping the doors shut? Didn't they find that keeping the doors shut meant no customers? Kevin, you would be better explaining this than I. DCA opens the doors for sales, while WDW raises the indoor temps that make guests uncomfortable.
In a similar vein, there are more than a few forums with threads on how to foil the motion detector thermostats in guest rooms, and DVC villas. One falls asleep with a certain selected temp, only to wake up hours later in a pool of sweat because the thermostat shut down the air conditioning for lack of movement in the room.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Nah. Pandora: The World of Giant Blue Alien Sex Kittens will be coming to DAK ... keep telling yourself that, fanbois.

My sources in LA, which I guarantee are better than anyone else here, say the films are a mess and so far behind Cameron's own delayed schedule, that the next film may not see the theaters until as late as 2016 or even 2017 ... and that means you can bet that the Disney project remains treading water.

And, no, my opinion won't change because Disney moves a character meet-greet-and grope inside ... or decides to close FotLK (and save $$$ because of it).

When I see VERTICAL construction and actual blueprints, then I'll believe you'll see this project.

Anyone want to bet me that you'll see something major at TPFKaTD-MGMS first?

Your right, but I believe you won't see anything at DHS until the honeymoon period is over at DCA and they have a years worth of attendance numbers to look at. I think the same goes for FLE, even though that was set up more for crowd management and had been on the to do list from the early 80s. Once it's complete, Disney is going to want to crunch numbers on a 500 million expansion, see what type of ROI it produces over a years time for the worlds number 1 theme park destination.

You want these numbers popping. If they look great after the honeymoon period....I see Disney jumping on the large themed expansion idea train.
If not, it will be business as usual with a ride here and there.
I wouldnt expect any major construction over the next two years. There has to be those on the board who want to be patient and see what cards they are holding before the next major move, it's a business and history suggest no matter who is the CEO....that Disney moves at a snails pace when it comes to conceptualizing an idea and bringing it to reality.

Your right, the next move will be DHS, the numbers suggest that...it will be 2014-15 before construction and 2016-2018 before completion depending on the size. Remember FLE was announced in 2009, it won't be fully completed by 2014.

 

[Jim Possible]

Your right, the next move will be DHS, the numbers suggest that...it will be 2014-15 before construction and 2016-2018 before completion depending on the size. Remember FLE was announced in 2009, it won't be fully completed by 2014.

Why is Disney so slow? Is it because of the crowds... or the bloat? Universal can put together a great attraction in a fraction of the time, and Epcot was built in 3 years.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Even Pixar seems to be losing its luster since the acquisition, IMHO. Cars 2... Brave... Monsters 2... Nemo 2... I can't see a Disney-owned Pixar taking a risk on something like The Incredibles again.

There are still plenty of original films in the pipeline at Pixar, already announced are The Good Dinosaur, Pete Docter's film that takes place inside the human mind and Lee Unkrich's film inspired the Day of the Dead holiday.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Nah. Pandora: The World of Giant Blue Alien Sex Kittens will be coming to DAK ... keep telling yourself that, fanbois.

My sources in LA, which I guarantee are better than anyone else here, say the films are a mess and so far behind Cameron's own delayed schedule, that the next film may not see the theaters until as late as 2016 or even 2017 ... and that means you can bet that the Disney project remains treading water.

And, no, my opinion won't change because Disney moves a character meet-greet-and grope inside ... or decides to close FotLK (and save $$$ because of it).

When I see VERTICAL construction and actual blueprints, then I'll believe you'll see this project.

Anyone want to bet me that you'll see something major at TPFKaTD-MGMS first?

So if you were a betting man, would you put money on Avatarland ever seeing the light of day? Or is still too early to say right now?

 

[FrankLapidus]

Mid-90s was when things started to go to hell for Disney. Problem was they were able to disguise it for years. Even this supposed 'Disney hater' didn't start to notice the Pixie Dust wasn't what it once was until around 2000. By then things were spiraling down in every unit of the company (except for ESPN!) ... P&R ... ABC ... Studios ... Consumer Products ... Go.com ... FOX Family ... DRE ... Angels/Mighty Ducks ... should I go on?

Any coincidence that the downturn coincides with the tragic passing of Frank Wells? I still think that had he not died that things at TWDC would be very different to what they are today. Once Eisner was given free reign and without anyone to keep his ego in check it's no surprise that things ended for the him the way that they did.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Why is Disney so slow? Is it because of the crowds... or the bloat? Universal can put together a great attraction in a fraction of the time, and Epcot was built in 3 years.

I think Disney feels they can be patient. The numbers suggest that, the history suggests that. Epcot was from another era of Disney! Your talking about the early 80's. I have no doubt there is always an on going battle inside the halls of Disney about bringing concepts to reality. The culture seems to indicate a hurry up and wait approach. In other words, quickly build up the design from imagination to graphic design and then sit on it, let the excitement die down on the creation of the concept and see if it's still a good idea a year down the road. Business practical.

Universal to stay relevant must continue to push new attractions, they are barely in the top 10 in world wide theme parks, that is after the inclusion of Harry potter.

As a fan I want Disney to drop 2 billion on their Florida parks, as a businessman I would be more patient. Disney is still crushing universal. Disney controls the market for little kids. Kids who are just born today will be going to Disney in 5 years even if nothing is done to the parks. Parents will take them...period. The timeless animation from the vaults of Disney will propel families to go.
Universal can't touch that. Disney picking up Pixar and marvel along the way was a master stroke.

 

[ChrisM]

The standard talking point these days is that those who are not in a position of authority, Status or wealth are either too lazy or too stupid to be in those positions. It's preposterous but that's what it boils down to with some people.

You realize, of course, that this cuts both ways?

Those in positions of power/wealth/influence are not all greedy, evil, and looking to oppress those in lower socio-economic strata, despite what a great many people would have you believe.

And, unfortunately, those looking to climb the ladder are not uniformly misunderstood creative geniuses whose brilliance those in authority just simply don't understand.

We are being fed lines of bullspit on both sides.

 

[CinematicFusion]

You realize, of course, that this cuts both ways?

Those in positions of power/wealth/influence are not all greedy, evil, and looking to oppress those in lower socio-economic strata, despite what a great many people would have you believe.

And, unfortunately, those looking to climb the ladder are not uniformly misunderstood creative geniuses whose brilliance those in authority just simply don't understand.

We are being fed lines of bullspit on both sides.

excellent post....I guess an election must be upon us.