Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[COProgressFan]

I'd see LMA soon if you like that show. No matter what happens in the project that thing is history.

Good riddance. I thought putting that show in was an odd choice back in 2005.

I think it is just a so-so show, has very limited repeatability and takes up an enormous footprint for what it is. However, you and some others have hinted at other reasons for its closure, in terms of lawsuits, liability or something like that. Just curious if you had any other info....

 

[Jim Possible]

Today, you can be a freaking genius/workaholic, Disney freak (who doesn't point out how much more than his/her bosses he/her knows) and you will NEVER get beyond being a guest service manager at the Pop Century food court.

Came across this article: http://www.examiner.com/article/how-walt-disney-innovated-spite-of-the-bureaucracy

A bit...

This bureaucracy had an unfortunate side effect. The company could no longer bend quickly to the creative inspirations of Walt. Neal Gabler’s book Walt Disney: The Triumph of American Imagination reports that Walt often felt stymied by the bureaucracy.

(Forgive me if it's been posted before. I'm new.)

 

[flynnibus]

During college and for about five years after I tried to get a job in the marketing department at WDW. I sent at least a couple resumes every month for any job posting that I either met or exceeded the education AND experience requirements. In those roughly 7 years and (using rough math) somewhere between 160-200 job applications not once did I get a follow up question or call. Please do not misunderstand this to mean I think they should have hired me (this isn't a boo hoo me story) BUT I think that in all that time (and they have records of how much you apply) someone that displays an obvious passion for the product in addition to meeting or exceeding all the requirements deserves at least ONE conversation.

As a manager in my company.. when I saw the same resume coming back over and over and over again.. know what it made me think? 'This guy still doesn't have a job?' - Now mainly that is because in my experience, the people who were applying were passed over and in their repeat attempts they really didn't add anything more.. so it was basically the guy just bashing his head into the wall over and over and over again.

Growth and persistence may add up when applying over and over - but simple persistence just means lack of something better to do or how to climb above the pack. Don't keep repeating the same mistakes - learn from them and do something more/beyond that.

 

[M.rudolf]

As a manager in my company.. when I saw the same resume coming back over and over and over again.. know what it made me think? 'This guy still doesn't have a job?' - Now mainly that is because in my experience, the people who were applying were passed over and in their repeat attempts they really didn't add anything more.. so it was basically the guy just bashing his head into the wall over and over and over again.

Growth and persistence may add up when applying over and over - but simple persistence just means lack of something better to do or how to climb above the pack. Don't keep repeating the same mistakes - learn from them and do something more/beyond that.

It seems a little odd to be sending that many resumes I probably wouldn't call back either

 

[culturenthrills]

Kevin Yee, come over here and tell us about WDW trying to save the bottom line by cutting A/C costs. It was an interesting read over on MiceAge. Didn't the managers of the new stores at DCA open the front doors to entice customers to come in go against the policy to save on A/C at DCA by keeping the doors shut? Didn't they find that keeping the doors shut meant no customers? Kevin, you would be better explaining this than I. DCA opens the doors for sales, while WDW raises the indoor temps that make guests uncomfortable.
In a similar vein, there are more than a few forums with threads on how to foil the motion detector thermostats in guest rooms, and DVC villas. One falls asleep with a certain selected temp, only to wake up hours later in a pool of sweat because the thermostat shut down the air conditioning for lack of movement in the room.

It seems every couple of years they bring this cutting the AC crap back. Then enough guests complain because it is Florida and it is freaking humid and hot. Any way to save a little money.

TDO seeing how miserable we can make guests before they complain since 2001 or earlier.

 

[flynnibus]

See, that's the way people should react/act. But they don't. Largely (and Disney is simply a microcosm of the world at large) they want dumber people, people they can control, people they don't have to worry will replace them.

But it happens in flashy silicon valley too. Google is looked at as one of the most progressive companies in terms of how they treat their employees, compensate them, etc. Yet Google will still turn people away because their GPA isn't high enough.. or they weren't high enough in their class.. or because they don't pass some stupid questionnaire of pure theory things. They do it because they have their own egos to fill.. If people keep telling you that you are the top 1% in an industry.. you'll believe it.. regardless of how good they actually are or not. It's a ego echo chamber.

Great companies hire people based on what the employee has the potential to do - not based purely on what they did prior. If you only hire people that have done the job before.. you'll never do new things.

Hiring is a major peeve of mine.. and how hiring a few bad people in positions of power can rot a company from the inside out.

 

[flynnibus]

Didn't the managers of the new stores at DCA open the front doors to entice customers to come in go against the policy to save on A/C at DCA by keeping the doors shut?

Its not about $$$ - but corporate policies on eco-friendliness. It's about 'being green' - and power conflicts between corporate people who often have no direct role except to make policies.. vs the people who are tasked to run the actual business.

 

[tomman710]

As a manager in my company.. when I saw the same resume coming back over and over and over again.. know what it made me think? 'This guy still doesn't have a job?' - Now mainly that is because in my experience, the people who were applying were passed over and in their repeat attempts they really didn't add anything more.. so it was basically the guy just bashing his head into the wall over and over and over again.

Growth and persistence may add up when applying over and over - but simple persistence just means lack of something better to do or how to climb above the pack. Don't keep repeating the same mistakes - learn from them and do something more/beyond that.

It seems a little odd to be sending that many resumes I probably wouldn't call back either

Disney himself preached the value of persistence, wasn't I just following that model?

But to @flynnibus points, yes I'd tend to agree with you if someone kept applying who could never hold a job ... it would look horrible. My situation was different because during college and for a few years after I worked at Merrill Lynch and then for the next 5-6 years I held an upper management position at a Fortune 100 company. So basically I had two steady fairly well regarded jobs the entire time I applied ...

... so your points are valid but not in my particular situation ... although to play devil's advocate they could have said, "hey this guy has chronic dissatisfaction with the jobs he's had/has ..."

 

[flynnibus]

Disney himself preached the value of persistence, wasn't I just following that model?

But to @flynnibus points, yes I'd tend to agree with you if someone kept applying who could never hold a job ... it would look horrible. My situation was different because during college and for a few years after I worked at Merrill Lynch and then for the next 5-6 years I held an upper management position at a Fortune 100 company. So basically I had two steady fairly well regarded jobs the entire time I applied ...

... so your points are valid but not in my particular situation ... although to play devil's advocate they could have said, "hey this guy has chronic dissatisfaction with the jobs he's had/has ..."

Or you work SMARTER - not harder

You should have been trying to infiltrate through networking.. especially if chasing senior positions. If you had 'upper management position' at a fortune 100 company (which I would inpret to mean a division director or higher title) rarely are you getting hired by pulling a resume out of a stack. You have HR personnel advertising and screening candidates.. who still tend to get you crap leads.. and you have people who get lead to you by a contact or referral. You'd have saved yourself a ton of time and effort if you were working to figure out who the actual hiring managers are and getting to their desk than trying to brute force HR.

The whole 'how do I differentiate myself from the pack of resumes' conundrum is decades only and only gets worse the larger the company. HR is bigger.. HR is more 'faceless'.. as soon as any company scales up in manpower.. the same classic problems rear their ugly head.

 

[tomman710]

Or you work SMARTER - not harder

You should have been trying to infiltrate through networking.. especially if chasing senior positions. If you had 'upper management position' at a fortune 100 company (which I would inpret to mean a division director or higher title) rarely are you getting hired by pulling a resume out of a stack. You have HR personnel advertising and screening candidates.. who still tend to get you crap leads.. and you have people who get lead to you by a contact or referral. You'd have saved yourself a ton of time and effort if you were working to figure out who the actual hiring managers are and getting to their desk than trying to brute force HR.

The whole 'how do I differentiate myself from the pack of resumes' conundrum is decades only and only gets worse the larger the company. HR is bigger.. HR is more 'faceless'.. as soon as any company scales up in manpower.. the same classic problems rear their ugly head.

Yes, division director but I would have taken a step back at that time to start with Disney but perhaps being over qualified came into play ... who knows.

Well, to not belabor the thread about me ... I'll say yes I totally agree with you and I tried infiltrating and networking but a few things worked against me 1) Disney is a labyrinth and finding anyone connected anywhere I need to be was difficult for me at that time and 2) In the past 7 or so years I have developed/matured so far above my past self ... my current self would have plenty of advice to give to my past self to make that "chase" a little easier ...

Either way I have been successful and I'm good with where I am at ... my main point of the whole story was just to get to the line where the recruiter said "we aren't looking for people with imagination" ... I really didn't want to make it about me or the failings of my past self, even though your points have all been valid and good.

 

[WDW1974]

Kevin Yee, come over here and tell us about WDW trying to save the bottom line by cutting A/C costs. It was an interesting read over on MiceAge. Didn't the managers of the new stores at DCA open the front doors to entice customers to come in go against the policy to save on A/C at DCA by keeping the doors shut? Didn't they find that keeping the doors shut meant no customers? Kevin, you would be better explaining this than I. DCA opens the doors for sales, while WDW raises the indoor temps that make guests uncomfortable.
In a similar vein, there are more than a few forums with threads on how to foil the motion detector thermostats in guest rooms, and DVC villas. One falls asleep with a certain selected temp, only to wake up hours later in a pool of sweat because the thermostat shut down the air conditioning for lack of movement in the room.

I sorta just posted the same in the ridiculous non-announcement, announcement thread that popped up today.

I'd love to see Kevin get some Al Lutz in him and frost TDO's arses over the fact they've been cutting corners on AC (except in shops) for the past decade, off and on and in ways where you aren't always sure if something is broken or not.

WDW's A/C used to always be freezing in the attractions, resort public areas etc ... now, it's like they want you to come back from a day in 95-degree, 90-percent humidity weather and find your $400 a night room feels like your car left in the sun all day. It's all BS. It's all money related, although I'm sure the 'green' folks will get blamed.

Just another reason why I'd rather not stay at WDW's overpriced resorts.

 

[WDW1974]

Your right, but I believe you won't see anything at DHS until the honeymoon period is over at DCA and they have a years worth of attendance numbers to look at. I think the same goes for FLE, even though that was set up more for crowd management and had been on the to do list from the early 80s. Once it's complete, Disney is going to want to crunch numbers on a 500 million expansion, see what type of ROI it produces over a years time for the worlds number 1 theme park destination.

You want these numbers popping. If they look great after the honeymoon period....I see Disney jumping on the large themed expansion idea train.
If not, it will be business as usual with a ride here and there.
I wouldnt expect any major construction over the next two years. There has to be those on the board who want to be patient and see what cards they are holding before the next major move, it's a business and history suggest no matter who is the CEO....that Disney moves at a snails pace when it comes to conceptualizing an idea and bringing it to reality.

Your right, the next move will be DHS, the numbers suggest that...it will be 2014-15 before construction and 2016-2018 before completion depending on the size. Remember FLE was announced in 2009, it won't be fully completed by 2014.

The problem is WDW can't stagnate for another 3-5 years to wait and see ... they've largely been doing so since 2000. The level of investment and change has been pathetic and the choices made creatively have largely been worse.

UNI is turning up the heat and WDW can't cut and burn anymore ... and their smoke and mirrors approach can't belie the facts their numbers are stagnate at best (and that's with all the price increases, discounting and cuts in quality).

The fact TDO is in panic mode should speak volumes.

 

[WDW1974]

Any coincidence that the downturn coincides with the tragic passing of Frank Wells? I still think that had he not died that things at TWDC would be very different to what they are today. Once Eisner was given free reign and without anyone to keep his ego in check it's no surprise that things ended for the him the way that they did.

There's no way to know.

Eisner and Wells made a great team.

Eisner on his own was a very mixed bag. But the company was smaller and had vastly more underexploited assets when Wells was still with us.

But he died too young.

 

[WDW1974]

I think Disney feels they can be patient. The numbers suggest that, the history suggests that. Epcot was from another era of Disney! Your talking about the early 80's. I have no doubt there is always an on going battle inside the halls of Disney about bringing concepts to reality. The culture seems to indicate a hurry up and wait approach. In other words, quickly build up the design from imagination to graphic design and then sit on it, let the excitement die down on the creation of the concept and see if it's still a good idea a year down the road. Business practical.

No, they don't. They have felt that way since IOA opened and didn't dramatically alter their business.
Disney has stagnated and left their product to get old and stale and unappealing except to those who haven't been and the addicts.

Universal to stay relevant must continue to push new attractions, they are barely in the top 10 in world wide theme parks, that is after the inclusion of Harry potter.

Fundamentally disagree with that.

You don't have to be in the Top 10 of anything to be relevant, all you have to do is sell/provide a product that people want to buy/experience and is rates highly in quality and value. UNI has that. It will NEVER (even when they open that third park down the road) pull in Disney numbers barring some huge horrific event at Disney. That doesn't mean all is fine with Disney and UNI is struggling. UNI's business in O-Town (and hollywood and Osaka) is doing gangbusters and people love the product. UNI continues to reinvest in the parks because Comcast execs see the business as a growth one. Disney looks at the P&R in the USA (specifically WDW) as a mature business ... meaning beyond raising prices and selling real estate and things like FP+, they don't see value in investing.

Why are they doing so now? Because their numbers are falling, trends show further weakening going forward at the same time UNI and SW are upping their games. It is very simple.

If Potter 2.0. Transformers and at least another 3-5 major attractions weren't headed to UNI, then I am not at all sure the Studios makeover would have ever even been blue skied.

As a fan I want Disney to drop 2 billion on their Florida parks, as a businessman I would be more patient. Disney is still crushing universal. Disney controls the market for little kids. Kids who are just born today will be going to Disney in 5 years even if nothing is done to the parks. Parents will take them...period. The timeless animation from the vaults of Disney will propel families to go.
Universal can't touch that. Disney picking up Pixar and marvel along the way was a master stroke.

As both a fan and a businessman (and a creative), I'd like to see Disney drop billions on their FL resort tomorrow. WDW is becoming a place that only the newbies and the addicts return to. They've lost so much business from people like myself that don't want to pay for crap and be told that WDW has never been better. No, Lou, it has. Just about at anytime starting about 15 years ago heading back.

You assume that because WDW has been a rite of passage for many Americans that it always will be. ... I guess that's what PanAm thought ... and American Harvester ... and A&P ... and Mongomery Ward's ... and HoJo's. There's this idea that WDW is forever (or at least until the end of the world this December) and the only basis for it is some religious like belief in the power of Pixie Dust.

I am not going to get into yet another Disney vs. UNI discussion, I am just going to tell you that Disney is concerned about UNI both here and on the west coast and is making reactionary decisions because of them.

 

[CinematicFusion]

The problem is WDW can't stagnate for another 3-5 years to wait and see ... they've largely been doing so since 2000. The level of investment and change has been pathetic and the choices made creatively have largely been worse.

UNI is turning up the heat and WDW can't cut and burn anymore ... and their smoke and mirrors approach can't belie the facts their numbers are stagnate at best (and that's with all the price increases, discounting and cuts in quality).

The fact TDO is in panic mode should speak volumes.

Nothing in recent history suggests anything will be fast tracked, they would have to announce today for a major ride to be built by 2015. I don't see Disney racing to build something.
Hope I'm wrong and by the end of the year we hear some news.

You know better then I.

 

[WDW1974]

You realize, of course, that this cuts both ways?

Those in positions of power/wealth/influence are not all greedy, evil, and looking to oppress those in lower socio-economic strata, despite what a great many people would have you believe.

And, unfortunately, those looking to climb the ladder are not uniformly misunderstood creative geniuses whose brilliance those in authority just simply don't understand.

We are being fed lines of bullspit on both sides.

How many billionaires do you know? How many have you worked with or have intimate knowledge of? How many heads of Fortune 500 companies have you known ... not just a handshake, but really known?

I have known my share. And I've dealt with my share. They aren't like the rest of us because they can act like we don't exist, like we're wallpaper.

Because while I agree there are no absolutes and there are billionaries with hearts of gold. There are so many more who look at the rest of us like we're cattle in a field ... and those folks buy control of our government as they control corporations.

What's worse is through the politicos they buy, they make ignorant trailer people think that they too one day can go from that part-time $10.15 an hour job to living in a Beverly Hills mansion. We all know that's a lie.

But I've had enough MAGIC for more than one day.

 

[culturenthrills]

If they announced something tomorrow they have showed no sign that they can fast track anything. Meanwhile, Antartica opens next spring at SW and Transformers should be open by September at USO. Yes, September. Meanwhile at WDW... (insert sound of crickets chirping)

 

[CinematicFusion]

No, they don't. They have felt that way since IOA opened and didn't dramatically alter their business.
Disney has stagnated and left their product to get old and stale and unappealing except to those who haven't been and the addicts.



Fundamentally disagree with that.

You don't have to be in the Top 10 of anything to be relevant, all you have to do is sell/provide a product that people want to buy/experience and is rates highly in quality and value. UNI has that. It will NEVER (even when they open that third park down the road) pull in Disney numbers barring some huge horrific event at Disney. That doesn't mean all is fine with Disney and UNI is struggling. UNI's business in O-Town (and hollywood and Osaka) is doing gangbusters and people love the product. UNI continues to reinvest in the parks because Comcast execs see the business as a growth one. Disney looks at the P&R in the USA (specifically WDW) as a mature business ... meaning beyond raising prices and selling real estate and things like FP+, they don't see value in investing.

Why are they doing so now? Because their numbers are falling, trends show further weakening going forward at the same time UNI and SW are upping their games. It is very simple.

If Potter 2.0. Transformers and at least another 3-5 major attractions weren't headed to UNI, then I am not at all sure the Studios makeover would have ever even been blue skied.



As both a fan and a businessman (and a creative), I'd like to see Disney drop billions on their FL resort tomorrow. WDW is becoming a place that only the newbies and the addicts return to. They've lost so much business from people like myself that don't want to pay for crap and be told that WDW has never been better. No, Lou, it has. Just about at anytime starting about 15 years ago heading back.

You assume that because WDW has been a rite of passage for many Americans that it always will be. ... I guess that's what PanAm thought ... and American Harvester ... and A&P ... and Mongomery Ward's ... and HoJo's. There's this idea that WDW is forever (or at least until the end of the world this December) and the only basis for it is some religious like belief in the power of Pixie Dust.

I am not going to get into yet another Disney vs. UNI discussion, I am just going to tell you that Disney is concerned about UNI both here and on the west coast and is making reactionary decisions because of them.

I'm playing devils advocate and trying to get into the heads at Disney. If everything is in dire straights as suggested inside the halls at Disney, then we should expect major expansions to be fast tracked and news should be coming within the close of the year.

I would love to see it. But IMHO history shows Disney doesn't fast track. FLE from the D3 reveal to total completion will take 6 years. Cars land took I believe 6 years. Avatar was announced and then quickly snuggled into development hell which it will reside for quite sometime. We are looking at present time, a major expansion announced today would be completed by 2017.
Disney execs must have a reason for their patience and indecision? I was doing my best to get inside their heads as far as the orlando parks are concerned.

 

[Tom]

The posts in this thread have a lot of words. Brain hurts. Un-Watching.

 

[Rasvar]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to see something fast tracked. When you fast track, you tend to cut corners to get it done and pay more for it. I'd rather see them work on concept for a year and flesh things out instead of announcing items and then having them vaporize. Make the announcement when shovel hits the dirt and the plans are under construction. At this point, I don't care if it takes until 2018 or 2019 as long as it is well thought out, well designed and a serious value adder.