Disney Survey on implementing a $15 resort fee

[flynnibus]

I'm not sure the impact is as strong as you're implying. Families age in and out of the core Disney demographic.

But this isn't Rita's Italian Ice... this is a brand with almost 100 years behind it. A 'product' that for 40+ was considered the pinnacle. This already spans generations and that constant turnover also exposes the new generations... a brand with a feeder cable channel, movies, toys, etc. This is not a phenom that starts and ends with a single generation.. and that's why it's so powerful.

I think this is overblown for those of us who read a post here. I really don't think the wider world of WDW guests sees this degradation of quality that lots of people here talk about. I think the average guest leaves satisfied and with a strong value perception.

They do see it... it just hasn't reached the tipping point. Sitting here at my desk talking with three other dads... they see the changes, but are still willing to pay because they think the payoff is bigger than the burden. Premium parking? They said "i'll pay it" -- the Disney aurora is thick.

People are willing to take the bad to get the good.. the problem is Disney keeps abusing that trust and putting their greatest asset at risk... that blind trust.

 

[EOD K9]

Ah, Disney Widgets!

Those are like Vinylmation and pin trading right?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

They do see it... it just hasn't reached the tipping point. Sitting here at my desk talking with three other dads... they see the changes, but are still willing to pay because they think the payoff is bigger than the burden. Premium parking? They said "i'll pay it" -- the Disney aurora is thick.

People are willing to take the bad to get the good.. the problem is Disney keeps abusing that trust and putting their greatest asset at risk... that blind trust.

I don't think people would mind so much if Disney was continuing to offer an obviously top quality product. For example, I don't think price hikes at DLR provoke quite the ire they do at WDW due to the sense that at least Disney seems to be continually investing in keeping the parks fresh.

One very clear memory I have of my last trip to WDW three years ago was the CM introducing the film at One Man's Dream with a little spiel about how proud they were to present the film. Then it started rolling, and the quality was embarrassingly bad, like an old worn video that was barely audible. I couldn't help thinking that at DLR they would have switched to digital long ago and, while it was a little thing, it really gave you the sense of being in a tired, ageing theme park. It was a similar experience going on Great Movie Ride, Splash Mountain, Dinosaur and even just walking through Epcot. Thank god they finally updated the design on the side of busses, as that really added to the effect of the resort having stagnated at some time in the mid-1990s. Perhaps it's also time to update the pastel color scheme on the Friendships?

I think it's hard for any of us to judge whether any of this comes across to the average guest. It does surprise me that people spending such exorbitant amounts to stay in deluxe resorts take it all in their stride considering all the other amazing vacations they could have taken with that money.

 

[ParentsOf4]

People are willing to take the bad to get the good.. the problem is Disney keeps abusing that trust and putting their greatest asset at risk... that blind trust.

Brand is a valuable commodity, especially for a company like Disney.

Business typically doesn't sour overnight. Customers don't suddenly change their minds and spending habits. Instead, declines take years and usually can be traced to decisions made by corporate leadership during the height of success, when a perception of invincibility pervades thinking.

Business history is replete with companies that allowed brand quality to decline, even encouraged it in order to improve margin, only to have it come back and bite them after years of systematic abuse.

Corporate Disney seems determined to play a dangerous game of Chicken with its theme park jewel in its endless pursuit of profit.

Disney seems hell-bent to find exactly "How low can Walt Disney World go?"

 

[Buried20KLeague]

It's so common at Epcot to hear guests saying 'Oh I wish I could visit Europe', and then when asked about their WDW trip say 'we're here for two weeks, we have DVC so come twice a year'. Whatever's stopping people from visiting Europe, it sure isn't money.

They talk funny. It's scary.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Brand is a valuable commodity, especially for a company like Disney.

Business typically doesn't sour overnight. Customers don't suddenly change their minds and spending habits. Instead, declines take years and usually can be traced to decisions made by corporate leadership during the height of success, when a perception of invincibility pervades thinking.

The thing that sucks about this is that, much like politics, those that made the crappy decisions aren't around to pay for them. They get rewarded for their crappy decision and someone else has to come in to try to clean up the mess.

Business history is replete with companies that allowed brand quality to decline, even encouraged it in order to improve margin, only to have it come back and bite them after years of systematic abuse.

One that immediately comes to mind: Bed, Bath, & Beyond. Remember 20 years ago when this was a premium store? It's where you went to get the high-end kitchen and bathroom products. It was even featured like this, probably at it's peak, in the Adam Sandler movie, "Click". Since then it's become a junk store. Not overnight. It's pretty much a junk "As Seen on TV"-type store, now. They look junky inside. The products are mostly junk. Women, and I remember this from when I was married, wanted to go to BB&B. Now, they actively avoid it.

...but someone thought that the the profit margins on selling junk and reducing the overall appeal of the store (used to look upscale) was the way to go because the bottom line looked better. Now they have a problem where if they don't send a 20% Off any one item coupon out every week that people will stop coming. It's not even like their prices are horrible. People just won't shop there without the 20% off coupon now.. Again, the bottom line was made to look really good 10+ year back with all of these decisions.

 

[George]

I think this is overblown for those of us who read a post here. I really don't think the wider world of WDW guests sees this degradation of quality that lots of people here talk about. I think the average guest leaves satisfied and with a strong value perception.

They do see it... it just hasn't reached the tipping point. Sitting here at my desk talking with three other dads... they see the changes, but are still willing to pay because they think the payoff is bigger than the burden. Premium parking? They said "i'll pay it" -- the Disney aurora is thick.

People are willing to take the bad to get the good.. the problem is Disney keeps abusing that trust and putting their greatest asset at risk... that blind trust.

Interesting points. I actually know quite a few people who have quit going to WDW in the last decade or now prefer Uni. Like flynnibus, I also know many people who still go from time to time, but have noticed the changes. Further, I've talked to folk whilst in WDW who noticed worsening quality. I've also talked to people who are having the best time they've ever had. Over the last 15 years the ratio of the former:latter has increased. The name Disney, as applied to theme parks doesn't have the cachet it had in the 70's, 80's, or 90's....However, there is inertia with these things. One thing Disney really has to be careful of is that if the tipping point is reached, recovery oftentimes takes longer and can border on the impossible.

I should note that a resort fee is the exact kind of chickenpoop behavior that Disney used to be known for not implementing. If I'm paying 65 bucks a night to stay near a gator wrangling place, a few ticky tack things like the resort fee are unsurprising. But, if I'm shelling out hundreds of dollars a night to stay at what is still considered the premier vacation destination on the globe, it doesn't sit well. At all. And I fully understand that the resort fee is a lower percentage of my already bloated vacation bill.

 

[BrerJon]

Corporate Disney seems determined to play a dangerous game of Chicken with its theme park jewel in its endless pursuit of profit.

Disney seems hell-bent to find exactly "How low can Walt Disney World go?"

Could there be any truth in the speculation that they're looking to sell off the parks, I wonder? In the context of flogging them to the highest bidder, ratcheting up profit margins for the short term at the expense of quality to get the highest price is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Even if they don't sell it completely, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Disneyland Paris type situation where a rich oligarch takes a massive chunk of P&R in exchange for a few billion to boost shares up before Iger cashes his chips in.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Could there be any truth in the speculation that they're looking to sell off the parks, I wonder? In the context of flogging them to the highest bidder, ratcheting up profit margins for the short term at the expense of quality to get the highest price is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Even if they don't sell it completely, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Disneyland Paris type situation where a rich oligarch takes a massive chunk of P&R in exchange for a few billion to boost shares up before Iger cashes his chips in.

Absolutely not. Disney has a well-diversified portfolio. Their crown jewel, ESPN, is facing a potential existential crisis as the pay TV landscape shifts dramatically, which could prove catastrophic or enormously profitable. The Studio and Consumer Products segments are boom-and-bust based on box office results. Parks is the anchor of the whole thing, providing sure and steady (albeit slow) bottom-line growth.

 

[ford91exploder]

Absolutely not. Disney has a well-diversified portfolio. Their crown jewel, ESPN, is facing a potential existential crisis as the pay TV landscape shifts dramatically, which could prove catastrophic or enormously profitable. The Studio and Consumer Products segments are boom-and-bust based on box office results. Parks is the anchor of the whole thing, providing sure and steady (albeit slow) bottom-line growth.

Please remember that Iger tried to sell P&R to Prince Alaweed back in 2007-2008, Would not surprise me if Iger is trying again.

 

[GoofGoof]

Please remember that Iger tried to sell P&R to Prince Alaweed back in 2007-2008, Would not surprise me if Iger is trying again.

Is that an actual fact or something just "known to be true" to people around here like lifetime drink cups?

 

[prberk]

Is that an actual fact or something just "known to be true" to people around here like lifetime drink cups?

The entire board hosted him at WDW at that time and it was "known to be true" then. Not sure who leaked it, but you can probably search it here. I remember when he was at WDW and the discussion was going on. I am sure that someone here can cite the source or press release.

 

[note2001]

Disney's not selling. None of the signs I'm aware of with companies selling off exist here. Although I'm not an expert, I've been through 3 sales involving major corporations.

 

[WDW1974]

I just spent 545 a night at the Grand California and that was with my discount. It was ridiculous. Saddest part is I get a better deal at DLP than I do DLR or WDW. Last year I went to DLP and got a room with my discount at 250 a night, and that was with a Park view. And there wasn't any resort fee or anything. I see where you can go to get a better deal, but I think the better thing to look at in WDW case is the transportation. And I'd get behind the fee if it was to cover transportation... but that's not where that Iger money is gonna go and the fleet already runs on LP so it's a bit better already cost wise.

If you can spend $545 a night for a Disney hotel room in the USA, then I would say that you either have too much money or don't know the value of a dollar. I have stayed at true 4 and 5 star resorts all over the world for LESS than half of that. I'm sorry, but that is just insane.

 

[WDW1974]

None? Try reading the 20 pages.

This is the first time in almost a month that I have had an hour to spend here while doing other things. I have no time to read, which is why I asked. This site has come a long way for being a largely WDW can do no wrong place (like when I joined in 2008). But people still sway toward Disney being a benevolent corporation that loves them (or at least appreciates them) and somehow has something to do with a man who died before the vast majority of people here, including me, were born. So ... thanks for the help.

Yeah. Says the guy with 100k posts on various Walt Disney World forums. Addiction you say?

You think I have 100K posts! Wow! I find that extremely unlikely, but if you've followed me online for years, reading every word I posted, maybe you are right.

But if you are saying that I'm addicted to anything, then it is writing and communicating with fellow fans. You might have a point. But addicted to WDW? Um ... in the 70s I was too young. In the 80s and 90s that was true. But it hasn't been true for a very long time now. Because I do have standards and WDW ...

 

[WDW1974]

Since you and @thehowiet asked, actually, I have weighed in on this topic in a round-about way. From a couple of weeks ago: http://www.disneytouristblog.com/fight-back-hotel-resort-fees/

The day after I posted that article, Senator McCaskill introduced a new round of legislation concerning resort fees that made the news. As these spread beyond Hawaii, Vegas, Anaheim, and Orlando, I think more people will take notice and the fees will become more controversial. As worthless as they are, eventually the FTC will do something.

With respect to the Disney survey, specifically, I see it being one of two things: 1) Disney created the survey question before this topic gained traction with legislators, or, 2) Disney created it in direct response to that legislation, to gauge just how much consumers dislike fees--as a way to market themselves as being "fee-free." (A la Southwest's "Bags Fly Free" marketing.)

Even as WDW's nickel and diming of guests increases, I think this one is highly unlikely to be implemented. It's too controversial, and starting to come under regulatory scrutiny. I doubt Disney wants to be the "face" of that scrutiny once this house of cards comes tumbling down.

Disney doesn't survey Guests unless it is very seriously considering doing something. History bears me out on this. ... My question is would you write a post telling your flock that they shouldn't stay at WDW (and offsite locales that also have these fees)? It is a fair question. The time to act is before Disney does so. Because they won't start a resort fee and nine months later end it and put out a press release saying "Our Guests told us in large and vocal numbers that they do not believe WDW should be charging an extra $15 a night of pure profit just because other companies have been able to do so and because their opinions are what matter to us we have decided to drop this fee effective immediately.''

Not trying to call you out, Tom. But I realize I am because you are one of the few folks in the Lifestyler community who has some integrity. Saying these things are awful and should be outlawed is one thing. Telling your followers they should contact Disney and voice displeasure and not stay at WDW resorts if this is implemented is another.

Just like they follow me, Disney is following what you write. They don't mind your lovefests about the Asian parks because you'll still talk about your love of WDW and justify a $79 per person Star Wars breakfast. Hell, you even joined the Run Disney brigade. In other words, they don't mind you saying ''Go to TDR!'' because you aren't saying ''If you have to take four years off from WDW to go to TDR and Japan as a whole, just do it!'' You start doing that and you won't likely be getting to take photos at WDW at 4:12 a.m.

As to SW, it must be scary for their management attempting to do the right thing on luggage fees when Wall Street (they never fly SW!) wants them so badly. Jet Blue had at least one free bag until a year or two ago when they gave in. It isn't an easy battle, but you have to fight (not you personally) these things BEFORE they happen. You have a strong platform and have been fighting the good fight on Resort Fees. One would like to think that would carry over to WDW Resorts.

 

[xdan0920]

This is the first time in almost a month that I have had an hour to spend here while doing other things. I have no time to read, which is why I asked. This site has come a long way for being a largely WDW can do no wrong place (like when I joined in 2008). But people still sway toward Disney being a benevolent corporation that loves them (or at least appreciates them) and somehow has something to do with a man who died before the vast majority of people here, including me, were born. So ... thanks for the help.




You think I have 100K posts! Wow! I find that extremely unlikely, but if you've followed me online for years, reading every word I posted, maybe you are right.

But if you are saying that I'm addicted to anything, then it is writing and communicating with fellow fans. You might have a point. But addicted to WDW? Um ... in the 70s I was too young. In the 80s and 90s that was true. But it hasn't been true for a very long time now. Because I do have standards and WDW ...

This is a policy no one can get behind. Even the Disney is a business brigade isn't on board with this. It's a cheap trick by hotel companies and now maybe Disney is following suit and it stinks.

100k was just a guess. I've only ever been a member here. I may have a DIS account, but I couldn't even guess at the username it's been so long. I've only ever seen your posts here. But I know from the scuttlebutt that follows you, that you posted on Laughing Place for a long time before here. So that's just my probably too high guesstimate.

 

[EOD K9]

I have a DVC stay coming up at the Poly and rack rate is 640 per night. I am so glad I am using my points. I will let you know if I feel that is commensurate with the experience. If they really do this, I will definitely be a disappointed fan. I will give DCL my money instead and just use DVC as a base of operations. They are relying on my nostalgia of the times when I went in the early 80s to bring my family there now. I will have to give them the kiddos a Disney experience at least once, but I can say that we will be vacationing elsewhere instead of twice a year.

 

[ford91exploder]

Is that an actual fact or something just "known to be true" to people around here like lifetime drink cups?

The Lifetime drink cups actually do exist however the last one was sold around 1998, I have a couple but they are so old and fragile they are now pencil holders in my office and have been since 2004 or so.

I believe that it was @WDW1974 who actually broke the news about the potential sale to Prince Alaweed.

EDIT: Even though the cups were 'Lifetime' they were still only good at the resort where they were sold and back then EACH resort had it's own unique cup design.

 

[Disone]

New castle stage show
Frozen ever after
Soarin over the world
Toy Story land with two additional rides
Rivers of Light
Night safaris
Pandora with two attractions

Thank you! Also StarWars Land is MUCH closer then a decade away. 5 years tops.