Disney Survey on implementing a $15 resort fee

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Just a quickee question on this latest money grab idea by WDW Co "Not Going Out of Business Tomorrow, But Damn It Sure Looks Like It!" ... but how many posts on this 20-page thread are excusing Disney or thinking it's a good idea?

When people look back and write about the destruction of WDW and what exactly caused it one of the top reasons will be the rise of social media where every idiot with an opinion can spread it and companies can use them.

But, hey, I am just back in FL after three months in Europe and see a media campaign basically reBRANDING TPFKaTD-MGMS as The Star Wars Park ... even if there's very little to back up that assertion. One might even say there is less SW product at WDW today than during a typical Star Wars Weekend (remember those?) But rubes will still go ... and George Kalogridis sits in the jacuzzi with Andy looking at spreadsheets that show how cutting boat service at DD or telling CMs to go home after they hit 32 hours (regardless of how they need the hours and how Guests need the staffing) or adding premium parking or cupcake parties will help Bob Iger and Chappie get that bottom line to look like they want and make up for the debacle in Shanghai and the loss of ESPN subscribers etc.

It just all makes me feel sad. Sad for what was lost. Sad for what could be. And sad for the fact that posters on forums like this and the DIS and in the Disney Twit community are used to justify things like this.

Has @WDWFigment weighed in here? He is very negative, with good reason, toward resort fees. I wonder if he'd tell his blog followers that they shouldn't stay at any WDW resort, or hotel in general, that has these. I doubt it, but It's the only way you'll get rid of them. Funny ... I've never paid one in Asia or Europe. I guess the USA is just special.

It's neither a good idea nor a bad one. It's just reality. There really is no justification needed. The ancillary fad has swept the North American Travel Industry (predominately in the U.S.). It impacts every vertical, it does not grant exclusivity on the hotel sector. Nearly every major hotel in Vegas has adopted the Resort Fee. Nearly every major destination in the US has as well. (No. Not all of them..but a majority of the ones that bill themselves as Resorts, and/or are fortunate enough to occupy land in high demand locations).

The airline industry started this ball rolling with the ancillary mechanism we see today with additional charges for baggage, priority check in, WiFi, charges for seats etc. They did it because they were going bankrupt. Delta and AA both restructured under Chapter 11, and others that were not as fortunate went out of business altogether and were absorbed by larger carriers (Northwest, Continental, United, and US Airways). There is actually a bill introduced today by the Senators of Mass. and Conn. seeking to limit the fees airlines can charge for checked bags, changes, and cancellations. It doesn't address all the ancillary fees, and it is specific to the airline industry, but hey at least there is some attention being given. You have to start somewhere.

The Cruise Industry who has long billed itself as an all-inclusive vacation isn't all that all-inclusive when you factor in money being charged for port excursions, alcohol, the mandatory pre-paid gratuities, and "premium" dining options.

Disney is not doing anything groundbreaking here. They are not the trendsetter. In fact, I'd argue they are playing catch up. To allude to social media being amongst the root causes of Disney's decision to institute a Resort Fee is absolutely incorrect. A contributing factor? Yes. That I can agree with. But the ancillary train left the station long before Social Media had any impact at all.

 

[hopemax]

They are morons, plain and simple. Or Pixie Dust addicts that seem to think that because their addiction isn't booze, drugs, **** or gambling that it somehow isn't bad for them, isn't destructive.

For what most people pay to visit WDW, there are soooo many other places they could go. Many in the USA. Many off continent.

But, hey, I hear they have two new topiaries this year at EPCOT and you can now get your picture taken with hottie Kylo Ren instead of Grampy Darth. Those absolutely should be reasons to plan to blow ten grand on a WDW vacation.

IMO, it's not a question of being a moron, but a question of exposure. If there were a highly-viewed section on all of these Disney planning sites where people discussed detailed prices they were paying for their other types of vacations, complete with food reviews, recreation reviews etc, I do believe people would get their eyes opened. But since this is a "Disney" site it doesn't happen, at least not with enough frequency to stick, and I doubt the operators are too eager to see any of that (although I notice with their new Unofficial Guide TouringPlans.com now has some DC posts). People looking at Disney vacations aren't going to randomly toddle over to Trip Advisor, Cruise Critic, or any other travel website or even other forum sections to see what else is out there; we're all working with limited browser time for different reasons. There are however, many websites on people's RSS feeds talking about Topiaries and M&Gs. Quick, easy and accessible.

We still aren't that far removed from travel planning meant visiting a travel agent and doing what they said. And if you lived in podunk, USA maybe they could help you with London, Paris, Caribbean but certainly nothing like the plethora of options today's travelers can research and book themselves. Millennials apparently need to check everything through a social media site, Yelp, Trip Advisor etc, and all of these so-called disruptors - AirBnB, Uber, etc are changing how people think and approach travel. So, THINGS.WILL.CHANGE. Just look at how differently people plan WDW vacation now vs when I first got online 20 years ago. Disney has benefited immensely by being part of the "first wave" of fan-based internet communities. But waves crash, and new waves form. I believe the trend of more information being available will continue and people's vacation choices will slowly, but surely reflect it. Some of us are learning a lot more about Bora Bora, for example, some will actually go. I also know that since I've been online there is a lot more info about Tokyo Disneyland now than when I started.

 

[PhotoDave219]

In 2015, Disney reported 10.644M available room nights at its domestic resorts.

Disney has a bit over 30,000 resort rooms in the United States, or about 11.012M potential room nights.

The difference between the two is 3.3%. It's not an unusually high number of out-of-service rooms considering that Disney has been performing refurbishments and converting some to DVC.

Disney stands to make over $110M in profit by adding a $15/night resort fee. For places that charge one, $15/night is comparatively low. Once Disney's 'Guests' accept a resort fee as the norm, it's probable this fee will greatly increase within a few years.

Sweet motherduckling.

 

[MonkeyHead]

It's a theme park. It's a theme park. It's a theme park. Step back. You are too over invested in Disney for your own good.Go outside and get a hobby.

Says the person named MinnieWaffles and a signature that reads "Forever dreaming of Disney World."

 

[Pirate665]

Okay, okay, now things are getting toxic. Let's slow down a second and relax please.

Quick summation:
Survey asks if people are okay with Deluxe Resort Fee.
So far no one is cool with it.
Disney is a bit greedy, but the parks have to cover their own overhead now, but it should it really be done this way?
Bob Iger is still a Jerk.
Disneyland is a different beast than Disney World
There's no such thing as free at Disney.

And no one need attack each other when the real enemy here is Sith Lord Ig... I mean Snoke...

Now can we please get back on topic and not have personal attacks about names and ect ect...

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Disney is not doing anything groundbreaking here. They are not the trendsetter. In fact, I'd argue they are playing catch up. To allude to social media being amongst the root causes of Disney's decision to institute a Resort Fee is absolutely incorrect. A contributing factor? Yes. That I can agree with. But the ancillary train left the station long before Social Media had any impact at all.

I agree, but I think it is a very peculiar aspect of American capitalism that people in the United States need to think about. Not being from the US (I'm an Australian now living in Germany), it strikes me that you're always being screwed as a consumer in the US with hidden fees, tips, taxes not included on price tags, etc. The whole idea of free market capitalism is supposed to rest on the ability of consumers to make rational decisions, yet the entire consumer economy in the US seems based on tricking people into making irrational decisions by hiding real costs and marketing strategies designed to mislead. This is all then supported under the idea of deregulation allowing the free market to work its magic.

To me, it seems like the philosophy that Walt Disney employed when designing the parks has traditionally led to a business model at WDW that at least continued to put a reasonable emphasis on high quality which made the other digressions into the worst aspects of contemporary US consumer culture somewhat bearable. Increasingly, though, quality is being whittled away and the worst tricks of the trade are being embraced which is degrading the whole experience.

 

[BrianV]

The Park Tickets are pretty much the same between both coasts, but the hotels are very high priced at DLR.
All three are what WDW Vets would consider 'Deluxe' tiered ( except maybe Paradise Pier ) and in some opinions none of them quite measure up.
If you insist on rooming in a Disney owned hotel out there you will pay through the nose and then some.
They are not at all worth it in my option...far too pricey and they have none of the Resort benefits a WDW Vet would be expecting ( Magical Express, extended Magic Hours options, etc ).
Some insist on having to stay in one though...usually WDW Vets who are so used to 'staying On Property' but at DLR no such thing really exists.
Everyone of course has their own needs and wants however, and of course can stay there if they wish.
I personally just find it very hard to justify staying in a hotel room priced $300 to $500+ a night when i would much rather use that money towards good meals in the Park or neat collectibles.

Off-Property is the must do in CA, in my option.
There are numerous options for all tastes and wallets and quality of hotels that cater to all types and needs.
Some are even closer to the front gates of the Parks then the Disney owned ones, believe it or not!

Flights can be reasonable depending on time of year you visit, time you book, and what airport you fly in to.
In my experience, flying from Boston to LAX is usually the 'cheapest' and most direct option...but i find SNA (Orange County / John Wayne ) to be the better overall airport experience and sometimes the better fare.
I prefer flying into SNA anyway, and highly recommend it over the concrete jungle that is LAX.
Plus, it's closer to Disneyland - 25 to 30 minute ride compared to 45 to 50 minutes (without traffic..LAX can be brutal in this department ! ).
JetBlue also has non-stop service to Long Beach from Boston ( and i believe also New York ), which is a small but very nice modern airport.
Those Long Beach rates are typically a little higher.

So it can be done, you just have to shop around and do a little research.
I hope you make it out there, as i highly recommend a visit !


-

I guess i get caught at a flight from Boston is 300 to MCO and more like 500 to LAX. For our family that tacks 800 extra before we even get there. Also time is money and the flight time means for the same number of hours on vacation, you have to take more vacation days.

We plan to do a 2 week SD to SF trip some day, and dl will be on that trip if they are still in business.

 

[Andrew C]

I agree, but I think it is a very peculiar aspect of American capitalism that people in the United States need to think about. Not being from the US (I'm an Australian now living in Germany), it strikes me that you're always being screwed as a consumer in the US with hidden fees, tips, taxes not included on price tags, etc. The whole idea of free market capitalism is supposed to rest on the ability of consumers to make rational decisions, yet the entire consumer economy in the US seems based on tricking people into making irrational decisions by hiding real costs and marketing strategies designed to mislead. This is all then supported under the idea of deregulation allowing the free market to work its magic.

To me, it seems like the philosophy that Walt Disney employed when designing the parks has traditionally led to a business model at WDW that at least continued to put a reasonable emphasis on high quality which made the other digressions into the worst aspects of contemporary US consumer culture somewhat bearable. Increasingly, though, quality is being whittled away and the worst tricks of the trade are being embraced which is degrading the whole experience.

You just worry about yourself.

 

[xdan0920]

but how many posts on this 20-page thread are excusing Disney or thinking it's a good idea?

None? Try reading the 20 pages.

They are morons, plain and simple. Or Pixie Dust addicts that seem to think that because their addiction isn't booze, drugs, **** or gambling that it somehow isn't bad for them, isn't destructive.

Yeah. Says the guy with 100k posts on various Walt Disney World forums. Addiction you say?

 

[PhotoDave219]

There you go - those numbers mean someone has their sights on a HUGE bonus, and they couldn't care less if it destroys something the company has worked hard to create: I'm talking about that perceived mental image that Disney cares about its guests. That is something that takes generations to create.

I'm hopeful that even with skewed numbers from whomever commissioned this survey, those who have the final say know better.

They're going to see those numbers and say "We're leaving that much on the table? Sell Mortimer, Sell! Sell!!"

 

[PhotoDave219]

It's neither a good idea nor a bad one. It's just reality. There really is no justification needed. The ancillary fad has swept the North American Travel Industry (predominately in the U.S.). It impacts every vertical, it does not grant exclusivity on the hotel sector. Nearly every major hotel in Vegas has adopted the Resort Fee. Nearly every major destination in the US has as well. (No. Not all of them..but a majority of the ones that bill themselves as Resorts, and/or are fortunate enough to occupy land in high demand locations).

The airline industry started this ball rolling with the ancillary mechanism we see today with additional charges for baggage, priority check in, WiFi, charges for seats etc. They did it because they were going bankrupt. Delta and AA both restructured under Chapter 11, and others that were not as fortunate went out of business altogether and were absorbed by larger carriers (Northwest, Continental, United, and US Airways). There is actually a bill introduced today by the Senators of Mass. and Conn. seeking to limit the fees airlines can charge for checked bags, changes, and cancellations. It doesn't address all the ancillary fees, and it is specific to the airline industry, but hey at least there is some attention being given. You have to start somewhere.

The Cruise Industry who has long billed itself as an all-inclusive vacation isn't all that all-inclusive when you factor in money being charged for port excursions, alcohol, the mandatory pre-paid gratuities, and "premium" dining options.

Disney is not doing anything groundbreaking here. They are not the trendsetter. In fact, I'd argue they are playing catch up. To allude to social media being amongst the root causes of Disney's decision to institute a Resort Fee is absolutely incorrect. A contributing factor? Yes. That I can agree with. But the ancillary train left the station long before Social Media had any impact at all.

Meh.

 

[raven]

I'm paying for the convenience of staying on property, being immersed in the full "world" of Disney, and taking advantage of perks that people who stay off site don't get.

Crowded transportation to the parks? Small rooms? Large groups of South American tourists? Limited resort food and beverage options?

Disney will always raise prices. People will always complain. People will still pay those prices.

Because Disney is now focusing on families with a higher income bracket.

There is indeed something seriously wrong when a potential Guest who lives on the East Coast cannot afford to visit and stay 3/4 days at Walt Disney World that is a two hour flight away....but CAN afford to stay a week at Disneyland Resort on the West Coast 3,000 miles away.

Yep.
Tis' crazy, but tis' true.

When considering Park Tickets, flights costs, ground transportation, meals, and hotel room costs it is actually far cheaper to make the trek out West.

I live only 2 miles from Disney property but am flyng to Las Vegas and LA for a week in April visiting DL, DCA and Universal for LESS than it would be to stay home and visit the parks down the road for a week (tickets, food, extras). Tis' crazy, but tis' true!

 

[Gabe1]

In 2015, Disney reported 10.644M available room nights at its domestic resorts.

Disney has a bit over 30,000 resort rooms in the United States, or about 11.012M potential room nights.

The difference between the two is 3.3%. It's not an unusually high number of out-of-service rooms considering that Disney has been performing refurbishments and converting some to DVC.

Disney stands to make over $110M in profit by adding a $15/night resort fee. For places that charge one, $15/night is comparatively low. Once Disney's 'Guests' accept a resort fee as the norm, it's probable this fee will greatly increase within a few years.

Once again, thanks for the numbers and statistics. You alway come through with data we can wrap our brains around. And I wholeheartedly agree. $15 resort fee is just the beginning and I find it very plausible that the Resort Fee could tier upwards higher seasonally.

 

[erasure fan1]

Nothing was mentioned about a moderate or value resort fee, yet y'all get your backs up like it's going resort wide next week.

Because we all know how this works. start at deluxe where it will hardly be noticed, then roll it on down to everyone else.

That is another way to look at it, but if I'm saving to take a week long vacation, I'm not going to complain about saving an extra $100 or so. I'm paying for the convenience of staying on property, being immersed in the full "world" of Disney, and taking advantage of perks that people who stay off site don't get.

I've stayed off site for a couple short weekend trips and it has a different feeling leaving for the hotel then when I stay on property. Like I said...I'm in the minority, but an extra $15 a night isn't a game changer for my family.

I really don't think for the majority of people $15 would be a game changer either. But tack it on to all the other garbage that has gone on over the years and that is why people have the issue. It's really about when is enough, enough, and for a lot of people $15 just might do it.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

They have run projections on all these FREE ways to increase revenue and see $$$$. But these cheap fees really make me angry. I think the per day part is what gets me the most. If you charge me $15 bucks a day give me a free breakfast buffet.

Just more Disney Double Talk.

Our on site properties offer all these free benefits... We charge $15 a day, I mean come on that crap ain't free.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I still don't understand why people feel the need to justify why it's ok for Disney - a company that already make ridiculous profits ' to add a resort fee for things that have been historically free.

There is no need to justify why it's ok for Disney to add a resort fee. They don't have to ask our permission and it isn't illegal or immoral. The question really is... Why do people keep paying it if they don't think it is reasonable. To my knowledge no one HAS to go there at all.

 

[GoofGoof]

There is no need to justify why it's ok for Disney to add a resort fee. They don't have to ask our permission and it isn't illegal or immoral. The question really is... Why do people keep paying it if they don't think it is reasonable. To my knowledge no one HAS to go there at all.

Tell that to my wife...it's still cheaper than a divorce

 

[WDWFigment]

Has @WDWFigment weighed in here? He is very negative, with good reason, toward resort fees. I wonder if he'd tell his blog followers that they shouldn't stay at any WDW resort, or hotel in general, that has these. I doubt it, but It's the only way you'll get rid of them. Funny ... I've never paid one in Asia or Europe. I guess the USA is just special.

Since you and @thehowiet asked, actually, I have weighed in on this topic in a round-about way. From a couple of weeks ago: http://www.disneytouristblog.com/fight-back-hotel-resort-fees/

The day after I posted that article, Senator McCaskill introduced a new round of legislation concerning resort fees that made the news. As these spread beyond Hawaii, Vegas, Anaheim, and Orlando, I think more people will take notice and the fees will become more controversial. As worthless as they are, eventually the FTC will do something.

With respect to the Disney survey, specifically, I see it being one of two things: 1) Disney created the survey question before this topic gained traction with legislators, or, 2) Disney created it in direct response to that legislation, to gauge just how much consumers dislike fees--as a way to market themselves as being "fee-free." (A la Southwest's "Bags Fly Free" marketing.)

Even as WDW's nickel and diming of guests increases, I think this one is highly unlikely to be implemented. It's too controversial, and starting to come under regulatory scrutiny. I doubt Disney wants to be the "face" of that scrutiny once this house of cards comes tumbling down.

 

[Gabe1]

Your quote from Disney is consistent with mine. The Hotels have wifi networks with a Hotel wifi ID. The parks and public areas have a wifi network, with a different ID. If you are in the hotel, you can access the hotel wifi. If you are not in the hotel, generally there is a wifi network available which is different from the hotel network. The hotel networks are paid through the hotel operating budget, the parks and common areas are part of the parks operating budget. My explanation is not inconsistent with the Disney website, but rather just provides implementation details.

Not what I experienced. I hit connect at any resort or any park accept terms and I am online. I don't need a special ID. I did several years ago but haven't done that in a long time since Disney made it complimentary to all guests. When I stayed at the Hilton I was able to connect wherever I was on property. Try it.

 

[John]

Think back for a second......think back when everyone laughed and scoffed at those who moaned about changing themed napkins ...."They are only napkins"! My how we have come so far. Some said it was only the beginning. I am with @WDWFigment on this, I dont think it will be implemented. Same as with the morning opening show at MK. But Disney is fishing. See what sticks and what doesnt. Trust me this isnt the end. Iger is a slave to Wall Street. He will keep those numbers up at all cost.......of course that cost will come at the consumer level. It always does.

Right now Disney is squeezing every penny they can get out of their guest. There really is no end in sight.