Disney Parks and Consumer Products now one division

Disney Irish

Premium Member
LOL sarcasm aside, Roy Disney did that in order to oust Michael Eisner a little more than 10 years ago. He led a shareholder revolt. It was called Save Disney and around the same time a book came out called Disney War that chronicled his time at the company. It is all fun and games (and blind trust/optimism) until a decade or billions of dollars have been wasted, brand integrity destroyed, and finally stock performance.

Yes I'm aware which is why I said.

My point is that I think we are all getting ahead of the cart here. This is no guarantee its going to the be end of the world in terms of the parks. Nor does it mean that there is a guarantee everything will be rosy either. I was just being optimistic about the future, this announcement aside, because of some current projects and the potential future projects that are on horizon.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Yes I'm aware which is why I said.

My point is that I think we are all getting ahead of the cart here. This is no guarantee its going to the be end of the world in terms of the parks. Nor does it mean that there is a guarantee everything will be rosy either. I was just being optimistic about the future, this announcement aside, because of some current projects and the potential future projects that are on horizon.
So its neither here nor there until we know more about the strategy with this news. evidence it could go either way. Doesn't really inspire optimism in me the way it doesn't inspire pessimism and skepticism in you. We can join forces to #savedisney if #thanksdcp ever becomes relevant ;).
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
So its neither here nor there until we know more about the strategy with this news. evidence it could go either way. Doesn't really inspire optimism in me the way it doesn't inspire pessimism and skepticism in you. We can join forces to #savedisney if #thanksdcp ever becomes relevant ;).

We're on the same page now. And I'll be right there with you pitchforks and all. But I think there are too many stops in place for that to ever happen, namely the stockholders. If Disney goes too far in the wrong direction and doesn't change course the stock is hit big time. Its like a built-in pressure valve.
 
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nevol

Well-Known Member
We on the same page now. And I'll be right there with you pitchforks and all. But I think there are too many stops in place for that to ever happen, namely the stockholders. If Disney goes too far in the wrong direction and doesn't change course the stock is hit big time. Its like a built-in pressure value.
At the end of the day we all love the same product and want it to be as good as it can be.

This news honestly took me by surprise. Imagining what would happen with this merger and the elimination of redundancies between FOX and Disney, I was imagining that a thousand or so production and studio jobs would be cut. Since FOX doesn't have parks, I thought no changes would happen there. I wasn't worried about them trying to bring in more of FOX's content to the parks either because my guess was that the acquisition was for streaming content and not to shake up their perfect curation of blockbusters and family-friendly branded entertainment content. Then this departmental merger was announced between dcp and parks and resorts, and I can't say I understand it.

My main criticism of the merger is that DCP isn't a content creation division and has never been focused on content creation. Filmmakers make content. Theme park designers make content. But when people who are used to selling toys that are supportive of another product or brand start messing with parks, they think about the appropriateness of content, ignoring that storytelling often has conflict. For example, Disney films have a ton of mature themes in them, but pirates is no longer treated as creative content, but instead as a product, and certain material deemed inappropriate for children is being removed. (there are obviously a ton of ways to interpret that change, but this is just one).

Parks were best when they were the priority and most innovative division of the company, and then when they answered to studio execs like Eisner. Once he had his heart attack, they answered creatively to operations rather than risktaking storytellers, and soon operations was flooded with leadership from DCP who were unfamiliar with operations, the medium, and content creation. Now, operations seems guided by execs from P+R, often from dcp, and above, who both push IP mandates. So now parks are influenced by content creators (film execs), but in an odd change of direction, executives have gone from encouraging risk taking in storytelling to becoming more risk-averse, following the culture of Hollywood blockbuster funding. Even though they ultimately create the content, they don't finance it, so forgotten in this process seems to be the imagineers. That's the subtext of this criticism, that imagineers should be more respected as content creators and given more creative freedom.

Can't predict the future and say whether this departmental merger will help or hurt the role of imagineers in theme park design, even though we've spent pages speculating on how it could do both and I've laid out all of my thoughts on how it might be harmful. But hey, if executives are historically entering parks and resorts leadership roles after training for decades at dcp, unfamiliar with the parks, maybe just maybe some young dcp mba getting an expanded level of exposure to the parks division after this merger will come to appreciate them and be more mindful if ever offered the job of leading parks and resorts? This is the same Iger who recognizes that DCA 1.0 was a failure and that DLP needs 2.5 billion dollars to save its studio park. So perhaps the creative culture is IP-driven late nineties + late 2010s capital expenditures to ensure quality? Hopeful that he sticks around long enough to ensure a smooth transition. If the merger doesn't work out, the departments can be split down the line. Nothing is forever. Disney's acquisition of ABC and whatever channel would become ABC family was a complete mess. Executive shakeups like the Trump White House. This coming merger will be much larger and obviously mistakes will be made along the way, which is why I'm skeptical and would stay the course with what is working to avoid costly mistakes.

Ultimately I want parks to be treated like content, as autonomous as the studios, and not like sterile merchandise or merchandising opportunities, which is why I fundamentally question this move. Parks are content (that happens to push consumer products), consumer products are not. Even if you argue that parks are a product because guests purchase access, film and streaming content are products also, no less than parks, that also push consumer products, but they aren't being merged with dcp. With everything synergistically interacting already, I see no reason whatsoever to merge the divisions. Parks aren't just a place to interact with brands we are already aware of, a supporting revenue stream for the higher priority, which is the film content; Parks and experiences in the parks have the potential to be their own IP, their own content, and require the capital expenditures and reap the profits worthy of that prioritization, respect, and autonomy. Even the film divisions are sequel-prone and IP heavy today, but they still are able to produce originals in feature animation, pixar, and walt disney studios. Some percentage of original content would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
At the end of the day we all love the same product and want it to be as good as it can be.

This news honestly took me by surprise. Imagining what would happen with this merger and the elimination of redundancies between FOX and Disney, I was imagining that a thousand or so production and studio jobs would be cut. Since FOX doesn't have parks, I thought no changes would happen there. I wasn't worried about them trying to bring in more of FOX's content to the parks either because my guess was that the acquisition was for streaming content and not to shake up their perfect curation of blockbusters and family-friendly branded entertainment content. Then this departmental merger was announced between dcp and parks and resorts, and I can't say I understand it.

My main criticism of the merger is that DCP isn't a content creation division and has never been focused on content creation. Filmmakers make content. Theme park designers make content. But when people who are used to selling toys that are supportive of another product or brand start messing with parks, they think about the appropriateness of content, ignoring that storytelling often has conflict. For example, Disney films have a ton of mature themes in them, but pirates is no longer treated as creative content, but instead as a product, and certain material deemed inappropriate for children is being removed. (there are obviously a ton of ways to interpret that change, but this is just one).

Parks were best when they were the priority and most innovative division of the company, and then when they answered to studio execs like Eisner. Once he had his heart attack, they answered creatively to operations rather than risktaking storytellers, and soon operations was flooded with leadership from DCP who were unfamiliar with operations, the medium, and content creation. Now, operations seems guided by execs from P+R, often from dcp, and above, who both push IP mandates. So now parks are influenced by content creators (film execs), but in an odd change of direction, executives have gone from encouraging risk taking in storytelling to becoming more risk-averse, following the culture of Hollywood blockbuster funding. Even though they ultimately create the content, they don't finance it, so forgotten in this process seems to be the imagineers. That's the subtext of this criticism, that imagineers should be more respected as content creators and given more creative freedom.

Can't predict the future and say whether this departmental merger will help or hurt the role of imagineers in theme park design, even though we've spent pages speculating on how it could do both and I've laid out all of my thoughts on how it might be harmful. But hey, if executives are historically entering parks and resorts leadership roles after training for decades at dcp, unfamiliar with the parks, maybe just maybe some young dcp mba getting an expanded level of exposure to the parks division after this merger will come to appreciate them and be more mindful if ever offered the job of leading parks and resorts? This is the same Iger who recognizes that DCA 1.0 was a failure and that DLP needs 2.5 billion dollars to save its studio park. So perhaps the creative culture is IP-driven late nineties + late 2010s capital expenditures to ensure quality? Hopeful that he sticks around long enough to ensure a smooth transition. If the merger doesn't work out, the departments can be split down the line. Nothing is forever. Disney's acquisition of ABC and whatever channel would become ABC family was a complete mess. Executive shakeups like the Trump White House. This coming merger will be much larger and obviously mistakes will be made along the way, which is why I'm skeptical and would stay the course with what is working to avoid costly mistakes.

Ultimately I want parks to be treated like content, as autonomous as the studios, and not like sterile merchandise or merchandising opportunities, which is why I fundamentally question this move. Parks are content (that happens to push consumer products), consumer products are not. Even if you argue that parks are a product because guests purchase access, film and streaming content are products also, no less than parks, that also push consumer products, but they aren't being merged with dcp. With everything synergistically interacting already, I see no reason whatsoever to merge the divisions. Parks aren't just a place to interact with brands we are already aware of, a supporting revenue stream for the higher priority, which is the film content; Parks and experiences in the parks have the potential to be their own IP, their own content, and require the capital expenditures and reap the profits worthy of that prioritization, respect, and autonomy. Even the film divisions are sequel-prone and IP heavy today, but they still are able to produce originals in feature animation, pixar, and walt disney studios. Some percentage of original content would be greatly appreciated.

I get what you are saying. But this isn't a merger in the traditional sense. There would be very little redundancies other than administrative between these two division. This is a reorganization where a division goes under a different hierarchy within the company.

What this tells me is that Disney is setting up its divisions to be different vertical channels of content creators and thus content distributors.

1. P&R/Consumer Products
2. Studios
3. Media Networks
4. Direct-to-Consumer/International

Each will (or should) be feeding into the others but also feeding into themselves. So yes I would say that likely the majority of content coming out of P&R will be driven by the content feed from the others. But also would say that new content can and will likely at some point come out of P&R as well to feed the other divisions.

Also one thing to note, things can change in the future, this is not permanently set in stone. As I said they have a pressure valve in the stockholders, so if the different vertical channels don't produce value to the company things will change. Also with a new CEO comes different changes and different focus, so there is that too.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Chapek still sees value in original parks content as a form of consumer product. He really does like Haunted Mansion and Small World branding for example.

I don’t think Iger sees the value apart from the parks being a good form of physical legacy and a brand platform rather than also a brand generation system.

I don’t know if that really means there is hope per say, but I don’t think this really will change much either.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
You stated that a bunch of cool rides is an amusement park. But themed entertainment is more than that.

I'm stating that just because IP is used doesn't make it just a bunch of cool rides at an amusement park. And I gave SW:GE and Pandora as an example of highly themed entertainment while using IP.

I didn't miss your point, I just countered your point. You can disagree if you want, but that doesn't mean I missed your point.
Never said anything about IP either.

Chapek still sees value in original parks content as a form of consumer product. He really does like Haunted Mansion and Small World branding for example.
These things already exist and are thus “Disney.”
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Obviously, we can't know the future, and regardless of any fears, there will be ups and downs in the future of Disney parks. The problem is- this is a huge step in the wrong direction.

In the last decade- real competition for Disney parks have emerged with what Universal's been doing- and will continue to do. Disney isn't the clear cut leader in the industry anymore, they have real, valid competition in Southern California.

There's also been a huge emergence of themed entertainment fans of the industry and art- that extends beyond Disney. People out there (Matt Quimet for example) who really understand what makes themed entertainment great, and how to maximize the park experience. From what I understand, Knott's has been making strides in improving the park under Quimet's leadership.

Even Six Flags is working on making Magic Mountain an actual vacation destination- slowly but surely they've been fixing up the park, extending operating hours- and working on making the park an actual pleasant experience. The Justice League game ride they put in was a huge step in the right direction for them, and while they have a ways to go, I'm excited to see what they do in the next 20 years.

Gone are the days where Disney can do literally anything they want, and still be ahead of the competition. In such a cut throat industry- they really need to be hiring management and corporate leadership who love the parks and themed entertainment, and understand what makes it work and how to progress the parks- while respecting the history.

Or, they can combine the parks with consumer products- which gives off the impression that to Disney, the parks will continue to devolve into a pure marketing ploy for whatever hot property Disney has.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

Obviously, we can't know the future, and regardless of any fears, there will be ups and downs in the future of Disney parks. The problem is- this is a huge step in the wrong direction.

In the last decade- real competition for Disney parks have emerged with what Universal's been doing- and will continue to do. Disney isn't the clear cut leader in the industry anymore, they have real, valid competition in Southern California.

There's also been a huge emergence of themed entertainment fans of the industry and art- that extends beyond Disney. People out there (Matt Quimet for example) who really understand what makes themed entertainment great, and how to maximize the park experience. From what I understand, Knott's has been making strides in improving the park under Quimet's leadership.

Even Six Flags is working on making Magic Mountain an actual vacation destination- slowly but surely they've been fixing up the park, extending operating hours- and working on making the park an actual pleasant experience. The Justice League game ride they put in was a huge step in the right direction for them, and while they have a ways to go, I'm excited to see what they do in the next 20 years.

Gone are the days where Disney can do literally anything they want, and still be ahead of the competition. In such a cut throat industry- they really need to be hiring management and corporate leadership who love the parks and themed entertainment, and understand what makes it work and how to progress the parks- while respecting the history.

Or, they can combine the parks with consumer products- which gives off the impression that to Disney, the parks will continue to devolve into a pure marketing ploy for whatever hot property Disney has.

Fundamentally I don't disagree with any of this, but your viewpoint is from where the theme park industry currently stands. Yesterday's restructuring, much like the much larger Fox merger, is meant to position Disney's theme park business for the future. I said a few weeks ago in the Pixar Pier thread that we are witnessing Disney driving a profound shift in theme park experiences, and here we are.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

psst...
it was the uni model first
;)

True, but Uni will have some considerable catching up to do to leverage the model the way that Disney will, especially with the massive IP/brands and proprietary tech that it controls now. The new Star Wars Hotel is an example. Think for a moment about how Disney has the ability to leverage something like MyMagic+ in its physical and online retail stores in the future now that Resorts and Consumer Products are under a single business unit.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
.....especially with the massive IP/brands and proprietary tech that it controls now. The new Star Wars Hotel is an example. Think for a moment about how Disney has the ability to leverage something like MyMagic+ in its physical and online retail stores in the future now that Resorts and Consumer Products are under a single business unit.

I agree, the way they can use all parts of the company to create unique highly immersive themed experiences is what has me optimistic.
 

smile

Well-Known Member
True, but Uni will have some considerable catching up to do to leverage the model the way that Disney will, especially with the massive IP/brands and proprietary tech that it controls now. The new Star Wars Hotel is an example. Think for a moment about how Disney has the ability to leverage something like MyMagic+ in its physical and online retail stores in the future now that Resorts and Consumer Products are under a single business unit.

let's just say that, far as parks go, it's quite possible that the situ between diz and uni, and wdw/uso specifically, could become extremely interesting in short order

regardless, interesting times, certainly
 
D

Deleted member 107043

I kind of feel like this is all Universal's fault for doing Harry Potter so well. Then the bone heads at Disney figured it had to be the IP that was drawing everyone in.

Uni went hard on the strategy at its parks with HP, but in retrospect it was inevitable for Disney. The theme park industry was already headed down that road as a result of media company consolidations, and Uni, desperate to distinguish itself from WDW, took a risk and leapfrogged ahead of everyone else.

What strikes me as different about this deal is how explicit it is now that Disney intends to leverage its experiential channels under a single business unit for the distribution of IP, and that it regards Resorts as one of those channels. Sucks for us fans who long for unique and original Disneyland experiences. It was fun while it lasted y'all.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
I kind of feel like this is all Universal's fault for doing Harry Potter so well. Then the bone heads at Disney figured it had to be the IP that was drawing everyone in.

Nah... Harry Potter doesn't even belong to Universal, it's a license deal (like how Avatar was before Disney bought it up a few months ago).
With Disney, it's not that it's IP -- it's that it is their IP. The new reorg puts Parks and Resorts as effectively another distribution channel for the content and franchises they create. Which, Harry Potter aside, really has been the Universal model for quite some time if you think about it.
 

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