News Disney Not Renewing Great Movie Ride Sponsorship Deal with TCM ; Attraction to Close

[MerlinTheGoat]

Well the land will have one E ticket one B ticket and one D ticket pretty solid land if you ask me

I will comment on the ticket argument (if Martin won't lol). I cannot fathom anyone looking at Midway Mania and deeming it worthy of sharing the rank of POTC, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Small World, Kilimanjaro Safari, Imagination 1.0, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, World of Motion, Great Movie Ride, Tower of Terror, Mystic Manor, Radiator Springs Racers, Pirates Shanghai etc etc (i know i missed quite a few). All at least very high quality or even cream of the crop experiences all around. Or even older yet still fun and impressive E's such as Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room and Country Bears. There are different degrees of quality even among E tickets, but there is still a threshold of quality in them that TSMM is nowhere near touching.

As @NearTheEars said, TSMM is at its core a basic dark ride inside an empty warehouse with video screens in place of show scenes. The general experience was also adapted into a home video game, which some might argue is a better way to experience it. I also wouldn't agree with the notion of "it isn't as good as riding the real thing" (I would normally agree in pretty much any other circumstance, but not in this case). Even if you do like the ride though, whoever decided that TSMM was worthy of E status (standing alongside any of the other E's I mentioned or others) is completely backwards and needs to rethink their standards. Completely unworthy of that and and should be kicked down multiple letter rankings. Not even D worthy, it's a C at best. And even then there are better C tickets out there IMO, the classic Fantasyland dark rides for instance (which I believe are C).

Granted this IS a company that recently spread nonsense about both 7DMT and Little Mermaid being E tickets (in reality 7DMT is a solid D and Mermaid is at best a meh C). Though at least internally they were only considered D's (which is more reasonable). The ridiculous thing is that someone internally at Disney actually does think TSMM is an E...

 

[jt04]

A lot of us still say that about Frozen. It isn't without its positives (though some have disagreed fairly with the praise I have given it), but it's still inappropriately placed and the ride itself (even had it been placed appropriately in Fantasyland where it belongs) is a big mess. Obscenely short and massively flawed in other ways as well.

But even the Frozen ride is more appealing than Toy Story Land. TSL is just a collection of rides that would fit in perfectly with Six Flags. Frozen with all of its flaws is STILL at least a dark ride with show actual show scenes and figures.

Guess we should wait to see the final results and then guest reaction before passing such judgement. That they are incorporating TSMM into this land makes it rather immersive imo. Time will tell.

 

[Bocabear]

Guess we should wait to see the final results and then guest reaction before passing such judgement. That they are incorporating TSMM into this land makes it rather immersive imo. Time will tell.

to me it makes it the same ride with a new back door entrance... i guess that you will walk through giant christmas lights and fiberglaSs Toy statues will make it feel like an extension of the area, but not so sure I would go so far as to say any of that is "immersive"...

 

[MisterPenguin]

I cannot fathom anyone looking at Midway Mania and deeming it worthy of sharing the rank of POTC, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Small World, Kilimanjaro Safari, Imagination 1.0, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, World of Motion, Great Movie Ride, Tower of Terror, Mystic Manor, Radiator Springs Racers, Pirates Shanghai etc etc. Extremely high or cream of the crop experiences all around.

Well.. Define by what you mean by "E Ticket". That's always the rub. Is it an E because of the amount of expense making it and thus it had cost more to ride as were the original Es? Or is it an E because of the amount of production and theming and bells & whistles, and thus, graded as outstanding in its field? Or is it an E because it's popular?

That you disagree with Disney's own designation of what is E or isn't E shows that the term is rather nebulous and means different things to different people.

BTW, if there were no lines, I'd ride TSMM a hundred times over before thinking about getting on MK's PotC or TGMM. Being an E doesn't mean it's considered better by everyone.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Would this possibly be in relation to any Magic Kingdom 50th anniversary plans?

I would love to see Joe in charge of a Frontierland expansion

So, if Martin is hinting that JR's heading to captain the next big project that isn't Marvel Land, the contenders in Orlando are:

• Epcot 2.0
• Tomorrowland
• 50th Anniversary
• Frontierland

 

[jt04]

to me it makes it the same ride with a new back door entrance... i guess that you will walk through giant christmas lights and fiberglaSs Toy statues will make it feel like an extension of the area, but not so sure I would go so far as to say any of that is "immersive"...

As with the highly successful FLE, you may or may not be the target audience. If not then likely you will find SWL more appealing.

 

[jt04]

So, if Martin is hinting that JR's heading to captain the next big project that isn't Marvel Land, the contenders in Orlando are:

• Epcot 2.0
• Tomorrowland
• 50th Anniversary
• Frontierland

I vote for him to get all the above.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Guess we should wait to see the final results and then guest reaction before passing such judgement. That they are incorporating TSMM into this land makes it rather immersive imo. Time will tell.

Customer reaction or popularity is not consistent with quality. The popularity of movies such as the Twilight or Transformers series are good examples, massively successful with a huge following yet considered fairly awful.

One of the best non-Pixar animated movie of the Iger era is actually Winnie the Pooh (also perhaps the final hand drawn Disney movie we'll see unless a big corporate shakeup occurs). Yet it bombed tremendously (in large due to someone stupidly deciding to release it at the same time as a Harry Potter film and a poor marketing campaign). And almost no one remembers it. Those who stumble across it find a lovely, charming and very fun film. But popular or successful, sadly no.

I don't actually expect Toy Story Land to be unpopular, nor even "ugly" (though the budget cuts have already removed some of the scenery). The queue for TSMM for instance is relatively well done and FAR superior to the ride it builds up to. But it will definitely lack ride quality and substance. As is the case with a lot of Disney rides of the 2000's. We know exactly what we're getting in that regard, and it's very disappointing.

But I also have little doubt the land will draw in a lot of people. I'm sure the "Disney is a business" weirdos lacking proper standards will find a way to justify wasting time there (along with children who would be just as satisfied swimming in a McDonalds ball pit as visiting Splash Mountain). But for those of us who were raised to expect more out of a "Walt Disney" branded product (in a park desperate for more quality experiences, even on the smaller side of things), this just doesn't cut it.

 

[marni1971]

I vote for him to get all the above.

Don't be upset then.

BTW the FLE wasn't "highly successful". More of an internal disappointment.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

As with the highly successful FLE, you may or may not be the target audience. If not then likely you will find SWL more appealing.

The flaw in your statement is the notion that certain Disney attractions should only appeal to a singular "target audience", discounting everyone else.

"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."
-Walt Disney

Even simple rides like the classic Fantasyland dark rides have an appeal that encompasses all demographics. They may need some updates, but I still quite enjoy these sorts of rides that some would argue appeal more to children. The reason is that the imagineers created them with adults in mind just as much as children, there is a lot to admire in them that children would not even notice or appreciate. And in spite of their simplicity, they still reflect a certain level of design know-how and quality that their creators had. Rides like these would be a far better substitute than the fare TSL is getting, and without breaking the bank.

Though again the imagineers need a certain level of competence and resourcefulness that might be lost on the current batch working there at present (myself and others such as tirian have noted there seems to be a lack of good forced perspective effects in some modern attractions).

Don't be upset then.

BTW the FLE wasn't "highly successful". More of an internal disappointment.

This, and you don't even need to see the internal documents to realize this. Little Mermaid in particular seems to have disappointed even its target audience considering the short lines (and I don't even hate it as much as some other people do). Mine Train draws a crowd, but mostly due to low capacity and relatively meager options elsewhere in the land (Disneyland's Fantasyland has something in the range of 2x the amount of rides WDW's has). It is the closest thing New Fantasyland has to a quality experience at least.

Even the wait times for the meet and greets have diminished greatly in favor of more substantial attractions (which is saying something considering how low capacity these meetings are).

 

[jt04]

The flaw in your statement is the notion that certain Disney rides should only appeal to a singular "target audience".

"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."
-Walt Disney

Even simple rides like the classic Fantasyland dark rides have an appeal that encompasses all demographics. Excepting needing some updates, I still quite enjoy these sorts of rides that some would argue appeal more to children. The reason is that the imagineers created them with adults in mind as well, there is a lot to admire in them that children would not even appreciate. And in spite of their simplicity, they still reflect a certain level of design know-how and quality that their creators had. Rides like these would be a far better substitute than the fare TSL is getting, and without breaking the bank.


This, and you don't even need to see the internal documents to realize this. Little Mermaid in particular seems to have disappointed even its target audience considering the short lines (and I don't even hate it as much as some other people do). Mine Train draws a crowd, but mostly due to low capacity and relatively meager options elsewhere in the land (Disneyland's Fantasyland has something in the range of 2x the amount of rides WDW's has). It is the closest thing New Fantasyland has to a quality experience at least.

Even the wait times for the meet and greets have diminished greatly in favor of more substantial attractions (which is saying something considering how low capacity these meetings are).

Sorry, but I doubt Walt considered that everyone was expected to see the carousel and the Matterhorn in the same light. The argument that everyone would be able to partake in every attraction in the same way is flawed.

 

[MKCP 1985]

i admit to having lost my sense of orientation to the thread topic after reading the past 2 pages....so is there any update to the issue of Great Movie Ride being replaced?

The other topics are interesting and all, but I saw the thread title and was wondering if anything was newly announced.

 

[Kman101]

Don't be upset then.

BTW the FLE wasn't "highly successful". More of an internal disappointment.

They could fix that by gutting Enchanted Tales with Belle and putting in the dark ride Tokyo's getting

 

[TabulaRasa]

Sorry, but I doubt Walt considered that everyone was expected to see the carousel and the Matterhorn in the same light. The argument that everyone would be able to partake in every attraction in the same way is flawed.

That's not what's being said though. People experience things in different ways, and it should have appeal to a mass audience instead of being focused on a specific target group. I know plenty of adults who love riding carousels for one reason or another. It's when you target just children that you're marginalizing half of your audience. It just doesn't work.

 

[Andrew C]

That's not what's being said though. People experience things in different ways, and it should have appeal to a mass audience instead of being focused on a specific target group. I know plenty of adults who love riding carousels for one reason or another. It's when you target just children that you're marginalizing half of your audience. It just doesn't work.

Individual rides target individual age groups all the time...its when an entire park targets a certain group or when there are no rides at all where families can ride together that causes "issues"

 

[GoofGoof]

Individual rides target individual age groups all the time...its when an entire park targets a certain group or when there are no rides at all where families can ride together that causes "issues"

This is true. Especially when you are talking about a park that features an inverted coaster and a drop ride with height restrictions. It's ok to have a small section of the park with kid focused attractions. Just like I don't have an issue with having some more intense rides that exclude certain demographics it's also OK to have family friendly stuff too that's more kid focused. If the whole park was just thrill rides or kiddie rides it would be more of an issue for me.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

They could fix that by gutting Enchanted Tales with Belle and putting in the dark ride Tokyo's getting

I doubt it would fit. The Belle attraction is relatively small. I guess they could try to do something behind the Small World building, but it would require a ton of infrastructure work (including the underground tunnels) and working around or rerouting the back utility road.

Sorry, but I doubt Walt considered that everyone was expected to see the carousel and the Matterhorn in the same light. The argument that everyone would be able to partake in every attraction in the same way is flawed.

A lot of people love and appreciate carousels, even those of us who are not into spinner type attractions. There's a beauty and appeal lacking in other carny type rides. I don't know how true this statement is, but I read somewhere that Walt Disney was also initially against the idea of roller coasters, he had to be convinced to go ahead with the Matterhorn. The Matterhorn's elaborate theming is likely what appealed to him.

I don't even know if truly themed coasters like this existed before the Matterhorn (if so then they were rare and still less elaborate), but it allowed even people ambivalent to coasters to find an appreciation in them. My mom generally dislikes coasters and usually cannot tolerate them, but she is a huge fan of Big Thunder (even in her older age).

But the big problem is when you fill an entire land with rides that only appeals to a limited demographic, especially the cheap looking kinds of rides filling out Toy Story Land. The original Fantasyland at Disneyland was filled with all kinds of different attractions, the vast majority of which targeted adults AND children.

Closer to the end of his life (when the investors loosened the purse strings and allowed him better control over the creative process), Walt also focused more on broadly-appealing elaborate E ticket attractions such as Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Tiki Room and his Worlds Fair attractions. And for a time after his death (arguably until the early to mid 90s), the company honored this philosophy. EPCOT in particular being full of high caliber but very broad appeal E tickets.

We began to see a growing push by the executives for Six Flags type rides in the late 90s to early 2000s. There were fewer quality E tickets, but even fewer decent D, C and B tickets. Replacing the dark rides or charming boats and trains that filled the B, C, and D pages (which incidentally still had some extremely pretty and elaborate detailed scenery), we instead get fare that would not be out of place at a roadside carnival or (at best) Six Flags...

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Well.. Define by what you mean by "E Ticket". That's always the rub. Is it an E because of the amount of expense making it and thus it had cost more to ride as were the original Es? Or is it an E because of the amount of production and theming and bells & whistles, and thus, graded as outstanding in its field? Or is it an E because it's popular?

That you disagree with Disney's own designation of what is E or isn't E shows that the term is rather nebulous and means different things to different people.

BTW, if there were no lines, I'd ride TSMM a hundred times over before thinking about getting on MK's PotC or TGMM. Being an E doesn't mean it's considered better by everyone.

The original internal definition of what constituted an E ticket- the most elaborate cream of the crop attractions. At one point, that did logically translate into the most expensive ones as well of course. Though obviously there can be an extremely expensive project nowadays that most definitely doesn't contain any E tickets (Toy Story Land). Disney has gotten pretty bad at mismanaging budgets (both on the executive level and the imagineer level). Popularity isn't a factor (Splash Mountain having a smaller line than Peter Pan doesn't cause their ticket rank to swap).

I don't like Toy Story Mania. But that is not my real reason for ranking it as a C ticket. It is what is going on inside the ride that determines its ticket status. What TSMM is- a relatively small and very basic dark rides that travels alongside a bunch of video screens, there simply isn't much to it regardless of whether you like or dislike it (and I have no problem if you do like it).

As I said, there are other rides that are considered C tickets that I DO enjoy (infinitely moreso than TSMM). I am not against them when done right. The classic Fantasyland dark rides are an example. To me they have a level of quality and entertainment in them that TSMM lacks. Though I will still be fair and give TSMM the closest logical comparison it can get- which is (at best) a C ticket. I cannot see it argued as higher, even disregarding my personal opinions on it.

Modern Disney sometimes moves the goalposts about how the ticket ranking system works, particularly in marketing where they will often outright lie about everything being an E ticket to promote it (one of the employees even claimed that TSL was on the level of Cars Land). Internally they are generally a bit better and more fair about ranking their attractions, and often insiders on this site will tell us what an upcoming ride is on the ticket scale (like 7DMT being a D, or Star Wars being an E, or the Avatar boat being a C). But whoever ranked TSMM quite obviously didn't know what they were doing. Nothing about the ride remotely warrants it being an E.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I like this post!!!

 

[Bacon]

I will comment on the ticket argument (if Martin won't lol). I cannot fathom anyone looking at Midway Mania and deeming it worthy of sharing the rank of POTC, Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Small World, Kilimanjaro Safari, Imagination 1.0, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, World of Motion, Great Movie Ride, Tower of Terror, Mystic Manor, Radiator Springs Racers, Pirates Shanghai etc etc (i know i missed quite a few). All at least very high quality or even cream of the crop experiences all around. Or even older yet still fun and impressive E's such as Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room and Country Bears. There are different degrees of quality even among E tickets, but there is still a threshold of quality in them that TSMM is nowhere near touching.

As @NearTheEars said, TSMM is at its core a basic dark ride inside an empty warehouse with video screens in place of show scenes. The general experience was also adapted into a home video game, which some might argue is a better way to experience it. I also wouldn't agree with the notion of "it isn't as good as riding the real thing" (I would normally agree in pretty much any other circumstance, but not in this case). Even if you do like the ride though, whoever decided that TSMM was worthy of E status (standing alongside any of the other E's I mentioned or others) is completely backwards and needs to rethink their standards. Completely unworthy of that and and should be kicked down multiple letter rankings. Not even D worthy, it's a C at best. And even then there are better C tickets out there IMO, the classic Fantasyland dark rides for instance (which I believe are C).

Granted this IS a company that recently spread nonsense about both 7DMT and Little Mermaid being E tickets (in reality 7DMT is a solid D and Mermaid is at best a meh C). Though at least internally they were only considered D's (which is more reasonable). The ridiculous thing is that someone internally at Disney actually does think TSMM is an E...

I never said what was the E ticket did I?