Disney Dining Experience Changes

[shoppingnut]

While I'm sad you feel this way, on the bright side, this will mean the parks and restaurants will be less crowded when I go. :ROFLOL:

That bright side could get very dark and fast. Here you have regulars who come generally more than once a year, but at least once no matter what, and now you have ed them off so that they may come once every two or three years, just like all the rest of your customers. So what happens when the economy has a downturn or a 9/11 event and your parks are a ghost town because now you don't have your regulars to fall back on. Well I can tell you, restaurants will close, the park hours, parades, etc. will be curtailed, and no new rides built.

What they have done by this one single act, they have eliminated all the ground they gained with DME and getting guests to stay on property 100% of the time.

 

[Monty]

i was there in sept and they didnt do that, so who knows

Actually, if you read this quote from the contract in the post above yours:

Effective January 1, 2008, the eighteen percent (18%) service charge for all existing and new package plans, including Disney Dining Plan, supplemental Food and/or Beverage purchased and consumed by the guest covered by the package plan will be discontinued.

[emphasis mine]

That tells me that anything you currently order over and above what's covered by DDP is subject to an automatic 18% tip being applied and they intend to discontinue the practice when the new DDE tip is started.

Whether it was uniformly applied in the past or not I don't know, but they are discontinuing it, so it is currently policy.

 

[mkt]

4) My only recourse (and what I will be doing) in the future is that I WILL:
....A) No longer look at WDW as an annual vacation destination
....B) Not purchase the DDP if/when I do vacation there
....C) Not be eating at ANY table service restaurants

Ouch... I'm nowhere near as extreme as that.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Ouch... I'm nowhere near as extreme as that.

and the vast majority of WDW Guests aren't either - most guests are nowhere near as fanatical as we are on these boards.

Many will continue to visit WDW again and again and again - setting more and more attendance records.

I don't even believe this has hit the Orlando Sentinel as news - has it?

 

[imamouse]

I just would like to see Disney go back to the old days - no dining plan, no automatic tips, no crazy 180 days advanced reservations. How nice it would be to book with a days notice - or even a walk up!

As it currently is, since the dining plan introduction, menus have shrunk, quality has declined, restaurants are rediculously crowded, and booking reservations has become a sometimes impossible chore, and not at all fun.

Well put! I agree 100%, which is sad when I think about it .

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Well put! I agree 100%, which is sad when I think about it .

Joins the crowd in waxing nostalgic...

 

[bigtotoro]

We had TERRIBLE service at Citricos last month - the waitress was rude and so slow it took us more than an hour and a half to get out of there and we didn't have dessert (we were paying for babysitting so I was keeping an eye on the time and not just dawdling). The food was fantastic, though, so I didn't want to spend the entire dinner knowing I was going to have to have a "public" complaint session with management directly after eating. So I paid, reflected the service in the tip (though really I shouldn't have left any tip, she was that bad - AND she was sweaty and unclean - it was weird).

Later, when it was still bothering me and my husband mentioned some things that had happened while I was in the restroom, I did call the manager, just to let him know that we thought it was the best steak we'd ever had but the service was so unpleasant we might never go back. To my shock, he comped our meal, but even so I wouldn't have wanted to have a post-meal confrontation, even if I did think it would make the meal free.

So for me, and it sounds like for many people here, this isn't a problem of money, it's a matter of principle.

Well, AND a matter of money in some cases. I've never had a super attentive server at any of the buffets in WDW, though I love the buffets and continue to go back. In other words, I've never gotten 18% worth of service at a self-service restaurant, and that's always been fine. I tipped 10-15%. If I were running around as a server at Boatrights for 18% on those prices, I think I'd be pretty jealous of the cakewalk the servers at Chef Mickey's were getting.

Many times I've taken friends to dinner and when they insist on paying some, I'll say okay, you can leave the tip. Can't do that in WDW anymore.

This $250 dinner at Artist's Point that's been used as an example, must include wine. Who tips that much on alcohol? Not me! My husband's been in the bar business for 35 years and says most people don't. It's proportionately wrong.

Does anyone know if this gratuity is being added to the price before or after tax?

Finally, for those who say, "I always tip more than 18% so woo-hoo this is going to save me money!" I have to ask - why will you stop at 18% now? I assume that, like on a room service bill, there will be a place where you can add your additional 2% tip if you truly are always a big tipper. If that line isn't there, there's always the table so you can leave cash. Why will you suddenly be cheaper? That makes no sense!

I found this forum after I got the DDE email and wondered if I was the only one who thought this was nuts. Glad I'm not.

We did V&A which was a prix fixe of $110 or so per person. The wine pairings were $60 per person as I recall. With a $75 (as I recall) tip that puts it just a shade over $400.

 

[DougK]

I find it funny that all of this is supposed to be because of an agreement in a union contract. All everyone keeps saying is how little money these servers make. And they pay union dues too? For what exactly? It certainly isn't for good wages.

 

[bigtotoro]

1) I wrote an e-mail a few months back regarding the 2008 DDP changes and got a very nice phone call from WDW.
2) I now see that the phone call was just a patronizing move by WDW (as the very nice Disney Rep listened so sweetly and understood everything I said) but the only thing that has changed was further negative actions on their part.
3) I won't be doing any further e-mail complaints, etc. because it had no impact
4) My only recourse (and what I will be doing) in the future is that I WILL:
....A) No longer look at WDW as an annual vacation destination
....B) Not purchase the DDP if/when I do vacation there
....C) Not be eating at ANY table service restaurants

So what are you going to do? They're probably not backing off, are you giving WDW up?

 

[spaceghost]

That bright side could get very dark and fast. Here you have regulars who come generally more than once a year, but at least once no matter what, and now you have ed them off so that they may come once every two or three years, just like all the rest of your customers. So what happens when the economy has a downturn or a 9/11 event and your parks are a ghost town because now you don't have your regulars to fall back on. Well I can tell you, restaurants will close, the park hours, parades, etc. will be curtailed, and no new rides built.

What they have done by this one single act, they have eliminated all the ground they gained with DME and getting guests to stay on property 100% of the time.

That is some pretty good hyperbole there. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Does it stink? Yes. Will anyone other than a handful of people be so irate that they stop going to Disney or go elsewhere? You are talking about people for whom trips to WDW is a way of life (as it should be :animwink. Don't get me wrong - a forced gratuity is in no way a good thing for service, but saying that is is single-handedly destroying the incentive to go and stay on property is a bit ridiculous.

Really, the thing that kills me is that people go off on this with no real thought put into why the decision was made, or what the intended effect was. By all indications, this decision was made at the request of the cast members and for their benefit. Again, while I understand why people are upset, it just seems a bit self-centered to be SO upset about something that has such a small impact on your vacation.

Here's my theory as to why this change was made. From looking at the latest labor contract, it would appear to me that the removal of tips from the Dining Plan was actually done at Disney's request, not the union. Based on feedback I have seen here and in other places, as well as some comments that I have read from management, it seems clear that since the DDP has gone in, the quality of service has declined at the restaurants throughout WDW. One way to correct this is by making the servers earn their tip with quality service. I am going to guess that the union did not want to totally give up the standard 18% gratuity, so the compromise that was struck was to add it to DDE and Cast Member meals. By all accounts, this should improve the overall quality of service across the resort as many more guests use the DDP than DDE, and those that do use DDE can simply not tell the server until the end of the meal, at which point the quality of service should be already decided.

Again, this is purely speculation, but its at least a legitimate argument for why this was done. Disney management isn't as totally inept as we give them credit for. But then again, maybe its worth it to curtail visits to WDW because of a policy that may affect you once every 10, 20, 50, or whatever meals where a server provides poor service and you would typically not tip them the standard gratuity. I can totally understand weighing priorities.

 

[bigtotoro]

That is some pretty good hyperbole there. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Does it stink? Yes. Will anyone other than a handful of people be so irate that they stop going to Disney or go elsewhere? You are talking about people for whom trips to WDW is a way of life (as it should be :animwink. Don't get me wrong - a forced gratuity is in no way a good thing for service, but saying that is is single-handedly destroying the incentive to go and stay on property is a bit ridiculous.

Really, the thing that kills me is that people go off on this with no real thought put into why the decision was made, or what the intended effect was. By all indications, this decision was made at the request of the cast members and for their benefit. Again, while I understand why people are upset, it just seems a bit self-centered to be SO upset about something that has such a small impact on your vacation.

Here's my theory as to why this change was made. From looking at the latest labor contract, it would appear to me that the removal of tips from the Dining Plan was actually done at Disney's request, not the union. Based on feedback I have seen here and in other places, as well as some comments that I have read from management, it seems clear that since the DDP has gone in, the quality of service has declined at the restaurants throughout WDW. One way to correct this is by making the servers earn their tip with quality service. I am going to guess that the union did not want to totally give up the standard 18% gratuity, so the compromise that was struck was to add it to DDE and Cast Member meals. By all accounts, this should improve the overall quality of service across the resort as many more guests use the DDP than DDE, and those that do use DDE can simply not tell the server until the end of the meal, at which point the quality of service should be already decided.

Again, this is purely speculation, but its at least a legitimate argument for why this was done. Disney management isn't as totally inept as we give them credit for. But then again, maybe its worth it to curtail visits to WDW because of a policy that may affect you once every 10, 20, 50, or whatever meals where a server provides poor service and you would typically not tip them the standard gratuity. I can totally understand weighing priorities.

I think that pretty much is the final word on the subject. This is something that has gotten a lot of people overexcited and maybe we all should just let it drop.

 

[WDW-LUVR]

I was just on All Ears and this is what I found.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Disney Dining Experience team has sent out an updated email (11/10/07 6:00pm) that clarifies the automatic gratuity policy. Here is an exerpt:[/FONT]

​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" Many of you have expressed concern about the 18% gratuity that will be added to all Disney Dining Experience transactions. When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card the assessed gratuity will be added to all table service restaurant locations and lounges for all transactions regardless of party size. Gratuity will not be added to any counter service, food cart or quick service locations. In the past, gratuity was only implemented for larger parties of 8 or more for guests utilizing their Disney Dining Experience membership. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This adjustment to the program has been implemented in order to align the Disney Dining Experience Program with other dining experiences where gratuities are included. Effective January 1, 2008, when utilizing your Disney Dining Experience discount 18% gratuity will be added."[/FONT]​

To me it sounds ONLY When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card will they add the 18% gratuity. Or am I reading it wrong?????​

​

 

[JimboJones123]

I think the bigger concerns for me are:

1. Price in general for the meals. Am I the only person that has sat down and concidered that if my family eats just the DDP offered 1 TS, 1 CS, and a snack (which still leaves you short at least 1 meal and 2/3 snacks or more if it's summer), a week long trip would cost my family of four and extra $1000 in food. GOOD GRAVY!!! Tack on the extra foodies and it's about $1200 for 7 days of food. That's NUTS. DDP alone costs more than my daily average for tickets. FOOD MORE THAN TICKETS!?!?!?!?!?

2. Menu selection. Why do 1/2 of the TS and CS places serve the same burgers and sandwiches??? Is there no creativity? And kid menus make me sick serving the same thing 2-3x a day for 7+ days. There are literally 6 kids menu items. A few extras tossed in at Mexico or China, but the rest are ALL THE SAME. 100% ALL THE SAME.

3. Wait for seating. I dread the 30 minute wait past my seating time for EACH AND EVERY RESERVATION. That's on top of the 10-15 minutes I've already arrived early.

4. Service Quality. It's been brought up several times here. Why aren't these the ABSOLUTELY BEST SERVERS EVER at every $30 meal? I couldn't imagine going to a $30 meal at home and wait so long to give my order, get refills, get the check, pay the bill. It's nuts. This is BIG MONEY being spent at these places. Why aren't we treated like so. I don't want the same or worse service than Chili's. I really don't think that we should be getting run of the mill service. I've already expressed earlier how much it irks me sitting at a TS meal for 2.5 hours because the WAITER wasn't interested in making sure the service was prompt. This is not only unacceptible, but it is becoming more and more the norm.

5. The snootyness of the service. If I'm not ordering wine, or just a sandwich at a TS, I'm treated poorer in service because I'm not building up the bill to play the tip. If we get a table and ring up only $30 for 4 of us, we don't get any attention. Splitting meals is treated as a sin. As is not ordering extras. Just because I don't have 3 rounds of drinks with my kids doesn't mean I'm not going to treat my server generously in the end. But you can guarantee it by continuing to not refill my drink and make me ask for the bill and have to flag you down 3 times in a sitting.



Because of these growing issues we are very close to cutting out each and every TS meal from our trips. The only places where we feel like we get the courtesy we deserve is at Whispering Canyon and at the Crystal Palace. Maybe because one is more layed back and the other is fixed price. But I have found difficulties in most every eatery on site in at least one of the five categories. This includes O'hana Breakfast and Dinner, Cape May Breakfast, Chef Mickey (WORST), 50s Prime, Sci-Fi (How can burgers and sundays take 3+ hrs?), Hollywood and Vine, Mamma Melrose, Breakfastasaurus, Jiko, Boma, Yachtsman, Alfredos, and Mexico. I've also never had problems at Kona (again, the layed back TS at the resort) and at Norway Princess Meal, Cinderella's Castle, Beaches and Cream, and Liberty Tree Tavern.

So the expense, combined with hassel, on top of the poor service makes TS at WDW more trouble than they are worth in many of the more "Distinguished" of eateries.

One would hope the more generic of eateries, the ones where I have found the most of my pleasure eating at (which by far have lesser menus) much greater.

The entitlement attitude of servers at WDW is a problem fundamentally at the service level and it shows in the product. From their expectations of the guests to the treatment as a result of those expectations. I really find it difficult to get excited about Disney Dining much anymore.

 

[Monty]

I was just on All Ears and this is what I found.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Disney Dining Experience team has sent out an updated email (11/10/07 6:00pm) that clarifies the automatic gratuity policy. Here is an exerpt:[/FONT]

​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" Many of you have expressed concern about the 18% gratuity that will be added to all Disney Dining Experience transactions. When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card the assessed gratuity will be added to all table service restaurant locations and lounges for all transactions regardless of party size. Gratuity will not be added to any counter service, food cart or quick service locations. In the past, gratuity was only implemented for larger parties of 8 or more for guests utilizing their Disney Dining Experience membership. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This adjustment to the program has been implemented in order to align the Disney Dining Experience Program with other dining experiences where gratuities are included. Effective January 1, 2008, when utilizing your Disney Dining Experience discount 18% gratuity will be added."[/FONT]​

To me it sounds ONLY When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card will they add the 18% gratuity. Or am I reading it wrong?????​

No, you're reading it correctly. The initial note [pre-clarification] was poorly worded and implied the tip would be added to any food any where, a lot of folks in this thread are fixated on that despite the clarification being mentioned a few times... :shrug:

 

[Matpez]

No, you're reading it correctly. The initial note [pre-clarification] was poorly worded and implied the tip would be added to any food any where, a lot of folks in this thread are fixated on that despite the clarification being mentioned a few times... :shrug:

Not exactly... but sort of... you see, if the 18% were being added to ALL meals, the 18% FORCED "tip" when using my DDE card would still "sort of" be a discount.
However, if the 18% is ONLY added to DDE, I feel unfairly forced into a situation, even considering we used to tip 20%.
If the DDE members are being specifically FORCED to pay the 18% charge as a "tip" then I certainly agree that I will
1. Continue the practice of not revealing I am DDE until the bill comes.
2. Let the server be happy with ONLY the FORCED 18% every time, if the service deserves it.
3. Be certain to vocally point out every flaw and bit of bad service, which is something I don't do now.

I also agree that we have had dinners with friends for special occasions and ordered a couple bottles of wine (even cheap at WDW is almost $40 a bottle) and that adds an immediate unfair FORCED 18% on that number!

:wave:

 

[brkgnews]

Not exactly... but sort of... you see, if the 18% were being added to ALL meals, the 18% FORCED "tip" when using my DDE card would still "sort of" be a discount.
However, if the 18% is ONLY added to DDE, I feel unfairly forced into a situation, even considering we used to tip 20%.
If the DDE members are being specifically FORCED to pay the 18% charge as a "tip" then I certainly agree that I will
1. Continue the practice of not revealing I am DDE until the bill comes.
2. Let the server be happy with ONLY the FORCED 18% every time, if the service deserves it.
3. Be certain to vocally point out every flaw and bit of bad service, which is something I don't do now.

I also agree that we have had dinners with friends for special occasions and ordered a couple bottles of wine (even cheap at WDW is almost $40 a bottle) and that adds an immediate unfair FORCED 18% on that number!

:wave:

You could always sneak some booze into the restaurant in one of your hard tripod cases. :lookaroun

 

[DisneyMusician2]

:lookarounWow...

Getting just a touch out of hand.

Kids have right to be anywhere at WDW except Pleasure Island. Sometimes, kids cry. It happens.

No need to break jaws over it....

 

[shoppingnut]

:lookarounWow...

Getting just a touch out of hand.

Kids have right to be anywhere at WDW except Pleasure Island. Sometimes, kids cry. It happens.

No need to break jaws over it....

But a smart parent would take the child out of the restaurant if they weren't able to calm him/her down within a few minutes. It's just common courtesy, which most people these days lack because they feel they are entitled, no matter what.

 

[shoppingnut]

That is some pretty good hyperbole there. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Does it stink? Yes. Will anyone other than a handful of people be so irate that they stop going to Disney or go elsewhere? You are talking about people for whom trips to WDW is a way of life (as it should be :animwink. Don't get me wrong - a forced gratuity is in no way a good thing for service, but saying that is is single-handedly destroying the incentive to go and stay on property is a bit ridiculous.

Really, the thing that kills me is that people go off on this with no real thought put into why the decision was made, or what the intended effect was. By all indications, this decision was made at the request of the cast members and for their benefit. Again, while I understand why people are upset, it just seems a bit self-centered to be SO upset about something that has such a small impact on your vacation.

Here's my theory as to why this change was made. From looking at the latest labor contract, it would appear to me that the removal of tips from the Dining Plan was actually done at Disney's request, not the union. Based on feedback I have seen here and in other places, as well as some comments that I have read from management, it seems clear that since the DDP has gone in, the quality of service has declined at the restaurants throughout WDW. One way to correct this is by making the servers earn their tip with quality service. I am going to guess that the union did not want to totally give up the standard 18% gratuity, so the compromise that was struck was to add it to DDE and Cast Member meals. By all accounts, this should improve the overall quality of service across the resort as many more guests use the DDP than DDE, and those that do use DDE can simply not tell the server until the end of the meal, at which point the quality of service should be already decided.

Again, this is purely speculation, but its at least a legitimate argument for why this was done. Disney management isn't as totally inept as we give them credit for. But then again, maybe its worth it to curtail visits to WDW because of a policy that may affect you once every 10, 20, 50, or whatever meals where a server provides poor service and you would typically not tip them the standard gratuity. I can totally understand weighing priorities.

What I said was that the ground they made with DME and getting people to stay on-property 100% of the time has been harmed. This does not mean people will not stay at the hotels, they will now rent cars once again and go off property for eating and other activities and not be spending 100% of their time at WDW which was the whole purpose of DME.

Yes, there are many people who for them WDW is a way of life and these are the people during the bad times that WDW counts on to come and visit. Sure they are experiencing record crowds and what-not right now, but can you say that this will be continuing indefinitely, no, because things happen and tourism is an unsure thing, as well as travel being the first thing to be axed from a families budget.

This year I have had about 35 TS meals and because I can leave a tip according to service I have never had to seek out a manager. And all but a few times, I left the 20% discount amount as the tip and at times even rounded the amount up, so the server ended up with a 20% tip or more. There were a few times I would have had to speak to a manager, so now if I am forced to give an 18% tip, I feel that they are putting the burden on me to have to argue with a manager and ruin my day because now I'm aggravated, if my service was poor. This is what irks me to no end. And, yes, I will consider eating off property at other places because the food selections are getting worse all the time and service on the whole is really just okay.

We have every right to be upset and it's not being self-centered. I also feel that 18% tip at a buffet is excessive, it should be 15% or less. The decision was made because it was an easy no-brainer that didn't cost Disney any $$'s out of their pocket. Basically it was because the CM's were unhappy about the DDP tips having to be fully reported and getting them paid to them a week or so later. Just because CM's didn't request it, doesn't mean it wasn't a trade off.

This might be a small impact on YOUR vacation, but for me it is not because I like eating at TS places and my trips are about enjoying good food too, not just go, go, go at the parks grab, a burger and be done with it.

 

[DisneyJoe]

What I said was that the ground they made with DME and getting people to stay on-property 100% of the time has been harmed.

If so, its a minuscule amount, given the fact that DDE is only available to Florida residents and AP holders.