Disney announces a new Four Seasons Luxury Resort and Golf Community

[Peterwhite171]

With all these new Hotel places and such does that mean this is going to over stretch the parks? Is the time now to build a new park?

With three Parks at Capacity over the holidays I would say so!

 

[Champion]

With all these new Hotel places and such does that mean this is going to over stretch the parks? Is the time now to build a new park?

With three Parks at Capacity over the holidays I would say so!

AK cost $800m.

A new park would cost about the same (AK has a lot of costs other parks would not have to have, and adjusting for increased pricing since AK was built).

Would you rather that $800m go towards the existing parks or to building a new one, that is not a complete park, as none of them are when they open.

$800m would go a LONG way in the studios and AK.

 

[Raidermatt]

Mousemerf has a point, in that Disney has just not been willing to do what it takes to be known as a top luxury/customer service brand. They wanted to do it with the Grand Floridian, and while it's nice, they never got the 4 star rating they wanted.

Bottom line, its cheaper up front to partner with somebody who already does it than it is to build it yourself. Whether that results in better long term results is another matter.

But beyond that, the unique factor that makes this a problem is this is just another encroachment on the fantasy world that was supposed to be created. The Swan/Dolphin are an example of this, McDonalds, the chains in DTD and even outside AK, and now this. You can even throw the outsourcing of customer facing employees (true cast members) into the mix.

Somebody mentioned the DTD hotels, but that was done because Disney didn't WANT to lower the value of their brand by getting into that business. Better to control it somewhat in a limited area than damage your own brand. That idea, however, has long left the company.

Will it work financially? I don't know. Maybe. Probably.

But will it work as well as if they had maintained that "bubble" and did the investing themselves? I don't think so.

They're basically leasing out space like a mall.

 

[marni1971]

On the portal, under the "Walt Disney World tab" there's a picture of the area both are on. Both areas are owned by Disney..

Here is that picture;

 

[Raidermatt]

$800m would go a LONG way in the studios and AK.

Except they aren't going to put $800 million into new attraction development for the Studios and AK in the near future.

They may not build a 5th gate, but the reason is not so they can expand those two parks. They already feel that the MK and DL are too large.

Also, whether a new park would cost $800 million depends on the scope of the park as well. The open small strategy has yielded spotty results at best lately.

I'm sure there are other related deals in the works. It appears they only made this announcement now because it was going to get out anyway because of some things they needed to work with local/state governments on.

That does not justify leasing out parts of WDW like a mall however.

 

[prberk]

All of this should be done themselves. The Swan and Dolphin are not Disney properties, and while they are "nice," the theming and control is just not there. I don't know why they would want to divide up the pie so much, and at the same time lose more control of their properties.

Especially the Golf area should be done by themselves. They are already a golf community. The marketing people just seem to have forgotten it.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

I don't know..I just think this is flying in the face of a vision for the parks...at least mine, not that it is more or less important than nayone elses. Even with the money saved on costs, the current management will never funnel that money into rehabs the way it should be. This sin't about companies or business, this is about an affront to the magic we all value above all about these parks. Its about losing a piece of the fond memories of a park space where things just seemed to happen with no interrupting views of the outside world. Its about having people in charge who understand that, even though it may not be the MOST profitable option. Walt understood that, and Roy was there to keep everything in business. Someone mentioned this in another thread, but we have no balance now. Simply cold, calculated business.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Argh...

Four Seasons is dedicated to perfecting the travel experience through continuous innovation and the highest standards of hospitality.

Funny, I remember when that was Disney's job.

Wow, I really, really don't like this. The Western Gateway, well, whatever; out of sight out of mind. But this Four Seasons deal... look how close that is to Fort Wilderness! The map on Screamscape, while just a guess, makes this new development look at least as large as the original WDW development including MK/TTC, the Seven Seas lagoon, and original resorts.

I know the current ideology is to go for the quick cash-in for the sweet quarterly report, but this is a massive decision that will affect WDW from here on out. Building a subdevelopment and selling prefab vacation homes to people less than a mile away from the MK, FW, and Port/Dixie will severely affect the atmosphere of the entire area.

I'm not keen out Disney's new outsourcing mania; it's bad enough that they're going to be building Ramadas or whatever out Western Way. The DTD hotels were done out of desperation in the early 70's (and they were smart enough to keep them the heck away from the parks). And since WDW didn't own the Bonnet Creek resort there's nothing they could do about that. But this... I think they're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

One Swan/Dolphin is enough. I hate to see the classic, '71-vintage MK resort area suffer for the sake of a cash-in.

 

[Yanks07]

I wonder if a new convention center is part of the plan, seems with the fancy hotel and the golf, it would fit. :shrug:

 

[fizzle75]

AK cost $800m.

A new park would cost about the same (AK has a lot of costs other parks would not have to have, and adjusting for increased pricing since AK was built).

Would you rather that $800m go towards the existing parks or to building a new one, that is not a complete park, as none of them are when they open.

$800m would go a LONG way in the studios and AK.

As much as I would love to see the opening of a new park I must say that if I had to choose where the money went I would choose for it to go towards updating and refurbing the existing parks.

Also...I have seen tons of posts about Pop Century not being finished,what exactly is the hold up with it?

 

[ThreeCircles]

The Western Beltway project is ON property. It is OUTSIDE the welcome sign, but it is still on WDW land.

The deal with Four Seasons has more to do with other things that are yet to be announced then the rebranding (and rebuilding) of the Bonnet Creek Golf Resort. You have to give some to get some. Few more months, maybe less, and they'll do the announcement of the other parts of the partnership. The deal, for Disney, is not about getting this resort built.

Edit: Some parts were not vague enough. Removed them.

Hmmm...

I wonder if TWDC isn't going to buy into the Four Seasons company. With the recent talk of building Disney branded hotels in other areas of the country besides CA and FL, it could be that Disney wanted a partner instead of doing this outright.

Or perhaps they're buying the company outright? :shrug:

 

[Champion]

Also...I have seen tons of posts about Pop Century not being finished,what exactly is the hold up with it?

They are waiting for a good amount of data to be available on the All Star Suites to see what they want to build in terms of rooms.

 

[flFigment]

re-read different annoucements, seems like that is the case.

I thought that too until I read this from CNN
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-14895449.htm

Four Seasons, Disney to build resort
March 01, 2007: 05:12 PM EST



Mar. 1, 2007 (AFX International Focus) -- LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) - Four Seasons Hotels (NYSE:FS) (TSX:FSH) and Resorts will build a luxury hotel and 18-hole championship golf course along the northeast border of Walt Disney (NYSECQ) World (NYSEIS) , theme park officials said Thursday.

The Toronto-based luxury hotel chain is part of two expansion plans that will take eight to 10 years to fully develop and will include single- and multifamily vacation homes, fractional ownership homes and a 450-acre retail, dining and lodging district, said Meg Crofton, Disney World's president.

'This is a first-of-its kind development for our company,' Crofton said. 'Four Seasons is a world-renowned brand known for its luxury and appeal.'
The number of jobs the two developments will bring to the area is unknown, Crofton said. Disney currently has 60,000 employees.

Four Seasons, with 74 hotels in 31 countries and two locations currently in Florida, will anchor a 900-acre development which already houses two golf courses. The hotel planned to open in 2010 could break ground later this year, Crofton said.

One of the existing golf courses will be upgraded into a championship course and the other will be renamed after the Four Seasons brand.

The second development will be roughly the size of Disney's Animal Kingdom and be located just outside the western entrance. About 4,500 time shares and hotel units will surround a pedestrian-friendly retail village that includes restaurants, shops and small-scale entertainment venues. Construction is slated for later this year.

'We chose this area because it's a great opportunity to further enhance the western entrance of our resort,' Crofton said. 'We're currently putting the finishing touches on the design and then we will give this development a strong brand name.'
Walt Disney Co. stock rose 14 cents to close at $34.39 on the New York Stock Exchange.


Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


Newstex ID: AFX-0013-14895449


The thing that I read was
One of the existing golf courses will be upgraded into a championship course and the other will be renamed after the Four Seasons brand.

so it sounds as if they will keep them both Thank Goodness. I was a little worried about this. IMO this project should never be done they should finish things on property with the Disney name on it prior to Inviting other companies on property. Four Seasons must be giving Disney a boatload of money for Disney to agree to this or this project was not thought through within the Disney management.

 

[jmuboy]

Since this is Jay Rasulo we are talking about, I'd say thi decision was made because it was not fully thought out. WDW will regret this down the road....just like the Swan and Dolphin.

 

[tomm4004]

Four Seasons is one of the world's premiere hotel chains - if not the. I guess if they are going to build in the Orlando area, Disney would rather have them (and their upscale guests) nearby rather than next to Universal or Sea World.

 

[Hummer1676]

I'm glad im not the only one that sees this as a big negative. There's enough land off property for hotels to build on. Save that land for something useful not more hotel rooms and communities. This is a bad decission. May look good financialy but as a whole will affect negatively around the resort.

 

[Gorjus]

Building a subdevelopment and selling prefab vacation homes to people less than a mile away from the MK, FW, and Port/Dixie will severely affect the atmosphere of the entire area.

Just an FYI, there are a lot of subdevelopments less than a mile away from MK and AK already. One apartment complex is walking distance to the MK cast member parking lot. A subdivision is maybe a mile down the road and more are being built daily. Another apartment complex is also less than a mile south of Western Way adjacent to AK. You can see it from the Western Way exit on 429.

 

[Gorjus]

VALUE-ORIENTED DESTINATION — MIXED-USE TOURISM DISTRICT
The project is currently in the design stage. Site work and branding is anticipated to begin later this year. The project will be built in phases over the next 8 - 10 years.

For the past 3 months when I worked at the Studios, I would drive on this property daily. There is a dirt road that connects Avalon Rd (545) to Western Way. Site work has been going on for at least 4 months now. Mostly just mapping out the place, but in the past 2 weeks, excavation reptile borders have been put in place along with signs about the WDW policy on reptiles. And in the last week, some of the orange trees have been uprooted and cleared out for space.

I guess this means the dirt road that I use when driving to MGM is going to disappear along with the fact that I never have any traffic issues.

 

[marni1971]

How things change - the Swan and Dolphin were built and had strings attached just so Disney could design and maintain the complete resort package THEMSELVES instead of Tishman and Marriott.

Funnily enough what I just mentioned was Eisners idea (and Wells)

 

[Champion]

Since this is Jay Rasulo we are talking about, I'd say thi decision was made because it was not fully thought out. WDW will regret this down the road....just like the Swan and Dolphin.

I'm sure James Rasulo would love to grab credit for this, but this was Iger's deal. (The entire idea was left there by Eisner. Not this particular part, but the overall plan. And as I said before, there is more to this.)

One question: Why the hatred over the partnership? I don't see whining when a company sponsors an attraction, whats the difference with a hotel? If Disney saw the need for another golf related resort, and had to pay for it all themselves, they would be spending much more then this will cost with a partner company.