Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Ghost93]

I think Lightyear and The Little Mermaid were the only Disney movies truly harmed financially by the negative publicity brought on by the anti-Disney/anti-diversity mob.

Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto were all harmed by the pandemic and Disney Plus. In an alternate world where the pandemic never happened, I think all of these movies would have been profitable.

I think The Marvels flopping was Disney paying for the sins of previously bad/mediocre Marvel movies and the film itself being rather weak. I don't think bigotry was the main reason it flopped (although bigots would love to take credit for its failure).

Wish and Strange World were doomed simply for being weak movies. Both could have made slightly more without the anti-Disney crowd trashing them, but not enough to become box office successes.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think Lightyear and The Little Mermaid were the only Disney movies truly harmed financially by the negative publicity brought on by the anti-Disney/anti-diversity mob.

Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto were all harmed by the pandemic and Disney Plus. In an alternate world where the pandemic never happened, I think all of these movies would have been profitable.

I think The Marvels flopping was Disney paying for the sins of previously bad/mediocre Marvel movies and the film itself being rather weak. I don't think bigotry was the main reason it flopped (although bigots would love to take credit for its failure).

Wish and Strange World were doomed simply for being weak movies. Both could have made slightly more without the anti-Disney crowd trashing them, but not enough to become box office successes.

I can agree with a majority of this overall.

 

[TP2000]

Eh, I know you are being sarcastic, and while I don't think it influences movies as much as others, it does exist and has some impact.

I am being sarcastic, but I'm also here laughing my behind off at all this.

You have to admit, the sudden appearance in this thread of "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of Billions of movie-going consumers and convinces them not to go see Disney movies that should have been huge hits if not for the hate network's nefarious work is hilarious.

Perhaps, and hear me out here, people don't go to Disney movies with cringey and preachy stories because people don't want to be preached to about cringey topics? Instead, people want to take their kids to Disney movies, like their parents did before them, that are sweet and wholesome and cutesy and that have singing animals in them? Just guessing.

 

[BrianLo]

Isn't that the bottom line of all this arguing? If lightyear or mermaid or haunted mansion, strange world... Were good movies, the noise doesn't really matter. I think that's the big issue here. People go to the theater and when the movie is just kind of meh or bad, you don't get that word of mouth. Mediocre output just pushes more people to wait for streaming. Good content rises to the top in most situations.

Yes and no, because as you suggest it was very multi factorial. Encanto is an example of how horribly their strategy impacted a good movie.

 

[BrianLo]

Once something is popular, they are suddenly on board while having to perform an amazing display of mental gymnastics to explain why the thing they claim the majority cares about suddenly doesn't matter.

And no just because IO2 is finding success does not mean the "hate network" is debunked.

I think as it pertains to this newly coined hate network as it were. It’s not all about bigotry and that’s only the minority of it. It’s about all the poo Disney found itself in, in a very multifaceted way. Whether one is upset about leadership, direction of their favourite franchise, parks decisions, a hostile takeover, even a political slant. It doesn’t matter. Lots of people found themselves very angry at the company and found the poor film output a way to pile on.

All the posters reassuring us it’s all about the quality fail to see where their rationality gives out. If you find yourself cheering against everything without reason, you are part of the problem. I said this last year when a good portion of people claiming otherwise (that only quality wins out) found themselves giddily dancing on the grave of Elemental’s opening weekend. I kept saying over and over it makes no sense that anyone would be happy about that film. It’s an original pic, with a good hook, well made. It’s exactly the antithesis of The Little Mermaid, which I see many rational (non hateful) reasons to want to see fail. There’s only one poster here who I think has a rational reason to want to see Pixar fail on original fare. I disagree, but I follow their logic. Which is mostly that they’ve never watched almost any (?all) Pixar films and most of their exposure to it is bad product output in Disneyland Resort.

Now we have many of the same people espousing quality, but quietly annoyed Moana 2 and Deadpool are going to do well. But don’t give me the cynical BS about quality of the product or sequels or whatever other excuse. Because they are all very happy the sixth Despicable Me Franchise entrant is also going to hit. There’s no logic in arguing quality at that point, it’s just about irrationally targeting all media output from Disney.

 

[Dranth]

The best was late last summer when the “these movies will eventually be profitable ” narrative was pushed. That was a good one. Star Trek is more believable.

Going to push back on this a bit because that wasn't an across-the-board argument, and you know full well that it is true many times.

In terms of this thread, I remember it mainly applying to TLM which there is a near zero percent chance isn't in the black at this point and Elemental, which was already on the plus side when it left theaters. As for the others, I don't think they get there personally but there is always a chance if they develop some cult status down the road.

I think most, if not all of us agree that companies don't release a movie hoping it will bomb at the box office and then make money later, but it happens. I don't know why someone would want to discount that it happens when we have seen it many times. In fact, few if any movie studios would exist at this point if it didn't happen because most movies lose money at the box office.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Going to push back on this a bit because that wasn't an across-the-board argument, and you know full well that it is true many times.

In terms of this thread, I remember it mainly applying to TLM which there is a near zero percent chance isn't in the black at this point and Elemental, which was already on the plus side when it left theaters. As for the others, I don't think they get there personally but there is always a chance if they develop some cult status down the road.

I think most, if not all of us agree that companies don't release a movie hoping it will bomb at the box office and then make money later, but it happens. I don't know why someone would want to discount that when we have seen it happen many times. In fact, few if any movie studios would exist at this point if it didn't happen because most movies lose money at the box office.

Its goal post moving

Does Disney pump old things for decades to push product? Yes of course

Does that mean all things are successes by default? No.

That’s why the industry reports box office…it’s not my fault. It’s the easiest and most straightforward way to judge success in a competitive field.

Now if we want to complicate it…look at it this way:
What makes more money in the longterm? Beauty and the beast that was widely watched and would have more people recognize it? Or the little mermaid that was not?

Obvious answer. The loser is still “losing”

Life is hard enough as is Without bringing on more headaches

 

[Dranth]

Its goal post moving

Does Disney pump old things for decades to push product? Yes of course

Does that mean all things are successes by default? No.

That’s why the industry reports box office…it’s not my fault. It’s the easiest and most straightforward way to judge success in a competitive field.

Now if we want to complicate it…look at it this way:
What makes more money in the longterm? Beauty and the beast that was widely watched and would have more people recognize it? Or the little mermaid that was not?

Obvious answer. The loser is still “losing”

Life is hard enough as is Without bringing on more headaches

I don't feel like anyone was making the argument that any of those movies where a box office success because they might make some money in the long run. I read it as people were saying that some of them would end up being profitable so those movies weren’t the abject, over the top disaster that many were trying to make them.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I think as it pertains to this newly coined hate network as it were. It’s not all about bigotry and that’s only the minority of it. It’s about all the poo Disney found itself in, in a very multifaceted way. Whether one is upset about leadership, direction of their favourite franchise, parks decisions, a hostile takeover, even a political slant. It doesn’t matter. Lots of people found themselves very angry at the company and found the poor film output a way to pile on.

All the posters reassuring us it’s all about the quality fail to see where their rationality gives out. If you find yourself cheering against everything without reason, you are part of the problem. I said this last year when a good portion of people claiming otherwise (that only quality wins out) found themselves giddily dancing on the grave of Elemental’s opening weekend. I kept saying over and over it makes no sense that anyone would be happy about that film. It’s an original pic, with a good hook, well made. It’s exactly the antithesis of The Little Mermaid, which I see many rational (non hateful) reasons to want to see fail. There’s only one poster here who I think has a rational reason to want to see Pixar fail on original fare. I disagree, but I follow their logic. Which is mostly that they’ve never watched almost any (?all) Pixar films and most of their exposure to it is bad product output in Disneyland Resort.

Now we have many of the same people espousing quality, but quietly annoyed Moana 2 and Deadpool are going to do well. But don’t give me the cynical BS about quality of the product or sequels or whatever other excuse. Because they are all very happy the sixth Despicable Me Franchise entrant is also going to hit. There’s no logic in arguing quality at that point, it’s just about irrationally targeting all media output from Disney.

Could be that if a movie gets good reviews, good press and good word of mouth, and nothing in the plot that might shy the audience away, people go see it en mass. I don't think it's a conspiracy.

 

[erasure fan1]

It’s about all the poo Disney found itself in, in a very multifaceted way. Whether one is upset about leadership, direction of their favourite franchise, parks decisions, a hostile takeover, even a political slant. It doesn’t matter. Lots of people found themselves very angry at the company and found the poor film output a way to pile on.

I said that a couple years ago. Disney has amazingly found a way to tick off every side of fandom. So it makes it even a harder uphill battle for the box when you have a big string of mediocrity. Especially when the consumer knows they have D+ at home.

All the posters reassuring us it’s all about the quality fail to see where their rationality gives out

It's not all about quality, but as I've said, it sure as heck starts with it. There's plenty of quality that never catches on, we all know this. But with out consistent quality, they are starting at a considerable disadvantage. Like I said above, people have D+ in their pockets so if quality is questionable, they're likely to hold off.

 

[BrianLo]

Could be that if a movie gets good reviews, good press and good word of mouth, and nothing in the plot that might shy the audience away, people go see it en mass. I don't think it's a conspiracy.

Yea, but people around here still start out hoping it’s going to fail upfront? Why is that?

Elemental was the prototypical example of celebratory eagerness about it failing out of the gate. None of which is deserved or in fact earned at the end of the day.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I said that a couple years ago. Disney has amazingly found a way to tick off every side of fandom. So it makes it even a harder uphill battle for the box when you have a big string of mediocrity. Especially when the consumer knows they have D+ at home.


It's not all about quality, but as I've said, it sure as heck starts with it. There's plenty of quality that never catches on, we all know this. But with out consistent quality, they are starting at a considerable disadvantage. Like I said above, people have D+ in their pockets so if quality is questionable, they're likely to hold off.

I think that's what hurt Elemental.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Yea, but people around here still start out hoping it’s going to fail upfront? Why is that?

Elemental was the prototypical example of celebratory eagerness about it failing out of the gate. None of which is deserved or in fact earned at the end of the day.

My best guess is some want change at the top and failure is the Lightning Lane to make that happen.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't feel like anyone was making the argument that any of those movies where a box office success because they might make some money in the long run. I read it as people were saying that some of them would end up being profitable so those movies weren’t the abject, over the top disaster that many were trying to make them.

We had the whole gamut…it’s there to scroll through:

We had

“They’ll all make money…you’ll see”
Fail

“The movies are good…just some vocal hate trolls will try to sink it”
Fail

“These will make Disney lots of money…cause they’ll drive streaming”
Fail

“They’ll all make money eventually…cause nobody can resist Disney for long”
HUGE FAIL


It’s all pages upon pages back in this thread

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yea, but people around here still start out hoping it’s going to fail upfront? Why is that?

Elemental was the prototypical example of celebratory eagerness about it failing out of the gate. None of which is deserved or in fact earned at the end of the day.

Disney fans do NOT want bad product…any of us.

But this is a failed hierarchy that shows no desire or ability to self correct.

So the axe must be swung.

Don’t worry…when Bob finally gets shoved out the door and then IMMEDIATELY he gets called out by former media lapdogs for failures…in a nanosecond…he’ll still have the golden parachute to pay for dinner

 

[BrianLo]

I think that's what hurt Elemental.

Soul, Luca and Turning Red were all highly regarded. I very much think Elemental was the D+ effect most of all. It just got unnecessarily caught in the cross hairs of the desire to see the kingdom crumble.

Pixar actually has a much better track record as of late with their movies qualities and financial success (then at least Disney and Dreamworks). Illumination has had more financial success and quality is subjective there.

My best guess is some want change at the top and failure is the Lightning Lane to make that happen.

Definitely, that’s what I’m arguing as well. That’s what I mean that sometimes the desire to burn it all to the ground gets irrational. Sometimes it runs away with itself and we are resisting the actual things we want more of, which is well made original Pixar fare.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think that's what hurt Elemental.

100%. People stayed away because of the past track record. Word of mouth kicked in because it was a good film. In turn it grew some legs, unfortunately it was a bit too late. So while it wasn't a smash hit, it had success. And I believe that momentum helped inside out 2s opening. In turn the word of mouth now should get it to, certified hit.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I am being sarcastic, but I'm also here laughing my behind off at all this.

You have to admit, the sudden appearance in this thread of "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of Billions of movie-going consumers and convinces them not to go see Disney movies that should have been huge hits if not for the hate network's nefarious work is hilarious.

Perhaps, and hear me out here, people don't go to Disney movies with cringey and preachy stories because people don't want to be preached to about cringey topics? Instead, people want to take their kids to Disney movies, like their parents did before them, that are sweet and wholesome and cutesy and that have singing animals in them? Just guessing.

There it is folks.

The not so subtle type of comment that is a mainstay in these parts.

"People don't want to be preached to", i.e. people don't want black mermaids and gay characters in movies. It's saying, if you're a minority, YOU are part of the reason people didn't like a movie or won't go see it. YOU are not suitable for family entertainment. YOUR existence is a bad thing.

These types of comments show it's not just about whether or not an individual movie is good. If a movie is even the slightest bit "preachy" it's pre-judged and attacked for that reason.

 

[Dranth]

I am being sarcastic, but I'm also here laughing my behind off at all this.

You have to admit, the sudden appearance in this thread of "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of Billions of movie-going consumers and convinces them not to go see Disney movies that should have been huge hits if not for the hate network's nefarious work is hilarious.

Perhaps, and hear me out here, people don't go to Disney movies with cringey and preachy stories because people don't want to be preached to about cringey topics? Instead, people want to take their kids to Disney movies, like their parents did before them, that are sweet and wholesome and cutesy and that have singing animals in them? Just guessing.

View attachment 793159

I don't see anyone saying there is a group that is dictating the global box office. That doesn't mean people don't exist that don't try to influence as many folks as they can. The comments, as I have read them, were more along the lines of how much influence do those types have.

For entertainment, at least in my mind, any group, no matter their goal, will have less impact the more popular something is. It is easy to push a narrative against something no one likes or people are indifferent about which makes bad to mediocre product an easy target.

For example, with Strange World we saw a lot of the "Strange World was a bomb because it had a gay character" narrative being pushed which is nothing more than people with an agenda missing the point and using the movies failure as a means to justify their own problematic views.

The truth is much closer to it was a bomb because it was a mediocre/boring movie. It further missed out on a subset of people but didn't see it because they were various levels of uncomfortable with the depiction of gay people in a movie targeted at children. Unfortunate that we are still at the point where that is an issue but here we are.

Bottom line, people who skip things for ideological issues are not that large a group and are not the difference between success or failure in a media product.

 

[McMickeyWorld]

I think Lightyear and The Little Mermaid were the only Disney movies truly harmed financially by the negative publicity brought on by the anti-Disney/anti-diversity mob.

Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto were all harmed by the pandemic and Disney Plus. In an alternate world where the pandemic never happened, I think all of these movies would have been profitable.

I think The Marvels flopping was Disney paying for the sins of previously bad/mediocre Marvel movies and the film itself being rather weak. I don't think bigotry was the main reason it flopped (although bigots would love to take credit for its failure).

Wish and Strange World were doomed simply for being weak movies. Both could have made slightly more without the anti-Disney crowd trashing them, but not enough to become box office successes.

I agree. Especially with Lightyear, there were several cases here in Latin America where cinemas put up warnings that it was not family-friendly. I also think a very important factor that influenced this was how most of these movies were marketed. Wish and Strange World went largely unnoticed; they didn't generate much hype from the beginning and ended up being overshadowed by stronger offerings. Then, the reviews and the quality of these movies didn't help at all.