Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Don't forget, the hate network doesn't just control 150 Million movie-going deplorables in flyover country, it controls the entire planet. Billions of people on six continents are controlled and told to avoid Disney films by the hate network now. The hate network communicates to them in every language, on every known media platform, state owned or private.

The hate network made Strange World bomb in Mexico ($2 Million), while it allowed Mexicans to adore Minions ($40 Million)
The hate network made Wish tank in Spain ($7 Million), while it allowed Spaniards to love Super Mario Bros ($30 Million)
The hate network made Mermaid flop in Australia ($16 Million), while it allowed Aussies to go bonkers for Barbie ($58 Million)

The hate network controls the entire movie-going planet now! Apparently.

Movie Comparison: The Little Mermaid (2023) vs. The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023) vs. Wish (2023) vs. Minions: The Rise of Gru (2022) vs. Barbie (2023) vs. Strange World (2022)

Domestic box office comparison between The Little Mermaid (2023) and The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023) and Wish (2023) and Minions: The Rise of Gru (2022) and Barbie (2023) and Strange World (2022)

www.the-numbers.com

How have you developed immunity to the all powerful hate network?

And yet Disney is victim like a baby seal trying to swim away from an orca?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So its all absolutes, no nuance with you. Got it.

I’m crazy in that I call a string of flops…that were awful to watch…not the victims of a powerful international hate conspiracy?

Ok…palpatine it is…

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes I completely agree. But it's not being framed that way. I have said many times now that, yes, there is a group hell bent on hating Disney. They just aren't the reason for the movies we've been talking about to underperform as much as they have/did. And that the quality of the films aren't what they should have been. And the response by multiple posters is something to the effect of, to deny there's a group of grifters....... No ones denying it, they are questioning the impact of it. And not that there isn't an impact, just not a big enough one to equal the size of miss. I've watched every single major movie they've put out in the last few years. And I'm struggling to find one that deserved to be a success that wasn't.

Maybe everything they released just fell in line with my likes and dislikes. But the box office results seem pretty right on the money to me. A few probably would have had a more favorable perception if the budgets weren't crazy. But all in all, most deserved the box office they got.

I honestly think its easier to just say its a "quality" issue rather than looking at the deeper nuanced reasons why things fail. I think some underplay the impact of things because they either don't want to believe its possible or because they are blinded by their own "likes and dislikes" that they cannot see the larger impacts external forces have on the industry. So its a bit of confirmation bias that comes up when a movie that a person dislikes for whatever reason fails, its the "see I told you it was bad" arguments that gets brought out. And the reverse is true too, when something we like succeeds its the "see I told you it was good". You saw a lot of that with TLM, when it did start out as well as expected you got the "see its bad" arguments but then it started to do better and you got the "see its actually good" arguments.

Anyways, there is a lot of nuance in the box office, its not an absolute and we have to be willing to accept that in these conversations.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’m crazy in that I call a string of flops…that were awful to watch…not the victims of a powerful international hate conspiracy?

Ok…palpatine it is…

Hey Palps, there is a term for that, its called confirmation bias.

 

[DisneyNittany]

I’ll give you another one: Star Wars fans are all evil cause they hate Disney for putting girls in it…

Ehhhh I’ll buy that one. Still bitter girls didn’t want to play with their lightsabers.

This is definitely isn’t coming from a loser, Harry Potter nerd who played with his wand a lot. Nope.

 

[Casper Gutman]

We cut cable years ago so I’m not getting The Hate Network. Is it on Pluto or Tubi or is it one of those subscription add-ons to Prime?

Oh, so you don’t use Facebook or Twitter or YouTube or watch the news or read newspapers or pay any attention to anything.

But I have a sneaky little suspicion that if we could see the media you do consume, we might learn your statement isn’t entirely accurate.

Multiple realities.

 

[brideck]

I’m crazy in that I call a string of flops…that were awful to watch…not the victims of a powerful international hate conspiracy?

I was curious about this, so went off to look at scores on Metacritic, which is of course only one potential way to view the quality of a movie.

Range of scores for Disney's 11 2023 releases: 47-64

Looking at 2019, when Disney set the box office on fire, there were two critically acclaimed movies.
Toy Story 4: 84 (a movie that I curiously see people deride on here all the time)
Avengers: Endgame: 78

Range of scores for Disney's 7 other 2019 releases: 43-64

So did Disney put out a critically acclaimed movie last year? No. But audiences were still going to see the mediocre middle in droves before the pandemic. There was no real reason for Disney to think that they needed to improve the quality of their (all too broken) movie-making process.

 

[Dranth]

Yes, exactly my point.

Apparently movie-goers in foreign lands are being commanded by the hate network to not go to Disney movies at the same rate and consistency as movie-goers in unfashionable states here in the USA. It's working in Mexico, Brazil, Japan, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, etc., etc.

The hate network is a global operation, and the Box Office data proves it.

Movie Comparison: The Little Mermaid (2023) vs. The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023) vs. Wish (2023) vs. Minions: The Rise of Gru (2022) vs. Barbie (2023) vs. Strange World (2022)

Domestic box office comparison between The Little Mermaid (2023) and The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023) and Wish (2023) and Minions: The Rise of Gru (2022) and Barbie (2023) and Strange World (2022)

www.the-numbers.com

Eh, I know you are being sarcastic, and while I don't think it influences movies as much as others, it does exist and has some impact.

There are whole networks these days, in nearly every country, that base their entire business model on fear and hate and people buy it. We have repeated examples even just here in the US of companies going to court and while under oath, swearing in front of the court that they went along with stuff they KNEW was blatantly false and inflammatory for ratings. That no reasonable or intelligent person would believe what they were saying so it isn't their fault their viewers were so dumb they actually believe it.

That was an actual court defense in more than one case recently and I don't know about you, but when the source of my information admits they made it up and then calls me stupid for believing them, I think I would drop it, not double down and yet often times, that doesn't happen.

Unfortunately, hate and anger sells and as long as it does there will be groups pushing it with various levels of success.

That doesn't mean that is why a movie fails but often times it helps push it along.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Willy Wonka (1971) was a flop. Some folks here would have buried it and danced on the grave.

It found an audience (including me) on HBO, and is beloved to this day. As you know, there are so many examples.

You should see how bad it is on less controlled sites! Btw I was liking your posts, not necessarily because I agree with you, but because you are being truthful and consistent.

There isn’t even a debate to be had. Maybe some here are “sheltered.” All anyone has to do is look at any official Disney post about TLM on any social media site and read the awful comments. You’ll find all the overt racism you can handle.

What I don’t understand is why some folks react to a statement like that with such volatility. Why deny it? If it doesn’t include you, why be averse to the facts?

Tony… what are your thoughts on inside out 2? Were you excited to see it? Was it your type of movie?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I honestly think its easier to just say its a "quality" issue rather than looking at the deeper nuanced reasons why things fail. I think some underplay the impact of things because they either don't want to believe its possible or because they are blinded by their own "likes and dislikes" that they cannot see the larger impacts external forces have on the industry. So its a bit of confirmation bias that comes up when a movie that a person dislikes for whatever reason fails, its the "see I told you it was bad" arguments that gets brought out. And the reverse is true too, when something we like succeeds its the "see I told you it was good". You saw a lot of that with TLM, when it did start out as well as expected you got the "see its bad" arguments but then it started to do better and you got the "see its actually good" arguments.

Anyways, there is a lot of nuance in the box office, its not an absolute and we have to be willing to accept that in these conversations.

It is a quality issue…that’s been the entire point the whole time. Welcome to the party

For instance…the little mermaid was pedantic and canned. A redo no one ever needed. A lot of that is remake fatigue to be fair.

But it was forgettable…as evidenced by its been forgotten already.

So that’s why it had very little push and didn’t cover its budget. I think it might have overachieved actually.

Another thing…and this may actually speak more to the “hate narrative”…is that I’ve watched Disney product and marketing tactics for decades…a bit of a hobby.

And not only did the movie stuff go straight to the clearance bin in record (a record smashed by wish) time…but if you track it now…Disney has shifted back to Ariel 89.

It is what it is. Maybe Disney is leading the hate cult themselves? Bobs a genius afterall.

 

[Disney Irish]

It is a quality issue…that’s been the entire point the whole time. Welcome to the party

For instance…the little mermaid was pedantic and canned. A redo no one ever needed. A lot of that is remake fatigue to be fair.

But it was forgettable…as evidenced by its been forgotten already.

So that’s why it had very little push and didn’t cover its budget. I think it might have overachieved actually.

Another thing…and this may actually speak more to the “hate narrative”…is that I’ve watched Disney product and marketing tactics for decades…a bit of a hobby.

And not only did the movie stuff go straight to the clearance bin in record (a record smashed by wish) time…but if you track it now…Disney has shifted back to Ariel 89.

It is what it is. Maybe Disney is leading the hate cult themselves? Bobs a genius afterall.

We keep talking past each other because you don't want to read and just want to respond. Its not all about quality, there is nuance there that you keep wanting to deny. Not everything is as cut and dry as you try to claim. Stop dealing in absolutes.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Live caption of current state of this board…
Now, along with Xanadu, MisterPenguin and I are not recommending watching this movie… but the music is solid and it stars a young Jodi Foster.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We keep talking past each other because you don't want to read and just want to respond. Its not all about quality, there is nuance there that you keep wanting to deny. Not everything is as cut and dry as you try to claim. Stop dealing in absolutes.

You’re blaming/crediting that can never be quantified. Box office can be…as can a lot of what Disney does.

If you look at many of the threads on this an all Disney forums…it’s a standard stance that is brought in anytime a certain company trips up.

The best was late last summer when the “these movies will eventually be profitable ” narrative was pushed. That was a good one. Star Trek is more believable.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was curious about this, so went off to look at scores on Metacritic, which is of course only one potential way to view the quality of a movie.

Range of scores for Disney's 11 2023 releases: 47-64

Looking at 2019, when Disney set the box office on fire, there were two critically acclaimed movies.
Toy Story 4: 84 (a movie that I curiously see people deride on here all the time)
Avengers: Endgame: 78

Range of scores for Disney's 7 other 2019 releases: 43-64

So did Disney put out a critically acclaimed movie last year? No. But audiences were still going to see the mediocre middle in droves before the pandemic. There was no real reason for Disney to think that they needed to improve the quality of their (all too broken) movie-making process.

1. Recovery from the pandemic is a real thing for box office…however there have been multiple $1.5 billion grossers in the last couple of years.
2. Disney…cause Bob bobs…has made it a pattern of overdoing anything they feel works. So that fatigue was showing back to in 2019 and maybe prior.

If you need proof…look at the steep dives of formerly hot commodities…notable marvel

 

[MagicMouseFan]

I don't think the rom com is dead, as last years Anyone But You got 220M and then blew up on digital and streaming.

Romcom isn’t dead but it will never be at the level of When Harry Met Sally... at the cinema. But there will always be a place for it in streaming. Who doesn’t love a great romantic comedy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Romcom isn’t dead but it will never be at the level of When Harry Met Sally... at the cinema. But there will always be a place for it in streaming. Who doesn’t love a great romantic comedy.

There’s still a market…but I don’t think big box office will be where it lies

 

[MagicMouseFan]

There’s still a market…but I don’t think big box office will be where it lies

Agree

 

[brideck]

If you need proof…look at the steep dives of formerly hot commodities…notable marvel

This couldn't possibly because they built in a natural jumping off point? A flawed plan? Absolutely. One that our lord and savior Feige was even responsible for. A dip in movie to movie quality? Not from where I'm sitting.

It didn't help that the pandemic more or less coincided with this exact moment in the glorious five year plan and got a lot of people thinking that the MCU was suddenly nothing more than a bunch of TV shows that you had to watch for homework. In an alternate timeline, it would have been interesting to see how the phase 3 -> 4 transition would have gone down as planned.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This couldn't possibly because they built in a natural jumping off point? A flawed plan? Absolutely. One that our lord and savior Feige was even responsible for. A dip in movie to movie quality? Not from where I'm sitting.

It didn't help that the pandemic more or less coincided with this exact moment in the glorious five year plan and got a lot of people thinking that the MCU was suddenly nothing more than a bunch of TV shows that you had to watch for homework. In an alternate timeline, it would have been interesting to see how the phase 3 -> 4 transition would have gone down as planned.

They offed the two core characters and starting to go too geek with the splinter plots…

That’s not what made MCU…or any movie franchise…successful for the first 10 years…

It was good portrayals and you didn’t have to care at all for what Stan Lee did in 1967…

 

[Disney Irish]

You’re blaming/crediting that can never be quantified. Box office can be…as can a lot of what Disney does.

If you look at many of the threads on this an all Disney forums…it’s a standard stance that is brought in anytime a certain company trips up.

The best was late last summer when the “these movies will eventually be profitable ” narrative was pushed. That was a good one. Star Trek is more believable.

As has been discussed in this thread and other threads box office performance doesn't equate to quality neither good nor bad. So just because the Mouse tripped up at the box office last year doesn't mean it was explicitly and exclusively due to quality issues.

So because you only want to speak in absolutes we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this.