Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[BrianLo]

I think that's what hurt Elemental.

Soul, Luca and Turning Red were all highly regarded. I very much think Elemental was the D+ effect most of all. It just got unnecessarily caught in the cross hairs of the desire to see the kingdom crumble.

Pixar actually has a much better track record as of late with their movies qualities and financial success (then at least Disney and Dreamworks). Illumination has had more financial success and quality is subjective there.

My best guess is some want change at the top and failure is the Lightning Lane to make that happen.

Definitely, that’s what I’m arguing as well. That’s what I mean that sometimes the desire to burn it all to the ground gets irrational. Sometimes it runs away with itself and we are resisting the actual things we want more of, which is well made original Pixar fare.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think that's what hurt Elemental.

100%. People stayed away because of the past track record. Word of mouth kicked in because it was a good film. In turn it grew some legs, unfortunately it was a bit too late. So while it wasn't a smash hit, it had success. And I believe that momentum helped inside out 2s opening. In turn the word of mouth now should get it to, certified hit.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I am being sarcastic, but I'm also here laughing my behind off at all this.

You have to admit, the sudden appearance in this thread of "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of Billions of movie-going consumers and convinces them not to go see Disney movies that should have been huge hits if not for the hate network's nefarious work is hilarious.

Perhaps, and hear me out here, people don't go to Disney movies with cringey and preachy stories because people don't want to be preached to about cringey topics? Instead, people want to take their kids to Disney movies, like their parents did before them, that are sweet and wholesome and cutesy and that have singing animals in them? Just guessing.

There it is folks.

The not so subtle type of comment that is a mainstay in these parts.

"People don't want to be preached to", i.e. people don't want black mermaids and gay characters in movies. It's saying, if you're a minority, YOU are part of the reason people didn't like a movie or won't go see it. YOU are not suitable for family entertainment. YOUR existence is a bad thing.

These types of comments show it's not just about whether or not an individual movie is good. If a movie is even the slightest bit "preachy" it's pre-judged and attacked for that reason.

 

[Dranth]

I am being sarcastic, but I'm also here laughing my behind off at all this.

You have to admit, the sudden appearance in this thread of "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of Billions of movie-going consumers and convinces them not to go see Disney movies that should have been huge hits if not for the hate network's nefarious work is hilarious.

Perhaps, and hear me out here, people don't go to Disney movies with cringey and preachy stories because people don't want to be preached to about cringey topics? Instead, people want to take their kids to Disney movies, like their parents did before them, that are sweet and wholesome and cutesy and that have singing animals in them? Just guessing.

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I don't see anyone saying there is a group that is dictating the global box office. That doesn't mean people don't exist that don't try to influence as many folks as they can. The comments, as I have read them, were more along the lines of how much influence do those types have.

For entertainment, at least in my mind, any group, no matter their goal, will have less impact the more popular something is. It is easy to push a narrative against something no one likes or people are indifferent about which makes bad to mediocre product an easy target.

For example, with Strange World we saw a lot of the "Strange World was a bomb because it had a gay character" narrative being pushed which is nothing more than people with an agenda missing the point and using the movies failure as a means to justify their own problematic views.

The truth is much closer to it was a bomb because it was a mediocre/boring movie. It further missed out on a subset of people but didn't see it because they were various levels of uncomfortable with the depiction of gay people in a movie targeted at children. Unfortunate that we are still at the point where that is an issue but here we are.

Bottom line, people who skip things for ideological issues are not that large a group and are not the difference between success or failure in a media product.

 

[McMickeyWorld]

I think Lightyear and The Little Mermaid were the only Disney movies truly harmed financially by the negative publicity brought on by the anti-Disney/anti-diversity mob.

Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto were all harmed by the pandemic and Disney Plus. In an alternate world where the pandemic never happened, I think all of these movies would have been profitable.

I think The Marvels flopping was Disney paying for the sins of previously bad/mediocre Marvel movies and the film itself being rather weak. I don't think bigotry was the main reason it flopped (although bigots would love to take credit for its failure).

Wish and Strange World were doomed simply for being weak movies. Both could have made slightly more without the anti-Disney crowd trashing them, but not enough to become box office successes.

I agree. Especially with Lightyear, there were several cases here in Latin America where cinemas put up warnings that it was not family-friendly. I also think a very important factor that influenced this was how most of these movies were marketed. Wish and Strange World went largely unnoticed; they didn't generate much hype from the beginning and ended up being overshadowed by stronger offerings. Then, the reviews and the quality of these movies didn't help at all.

 

[Dranth]

We had the whole gamut…it’s there to scroll through:

We had

“They’ll all make money…you’ll see”
Fail

“The movies are good…just some vocal bare trolls will try to sink it”
Fail

“These will make Disney lots of money…cause they’ll drive streaming”
Fail

“They’ll all make money eventually…cause nobody can resist Disney for long”
HUGE FAIL


It’s all pages upon pages back in this thread

I've read the whole thread and yes, those people exist but MOST were attempting to be more nuanced than "All the Disney makes fat STACKS!!!!!"

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

"All the Disney makes fat STACKS!!!!!"

…I want to hang out with THAT guy

But seriously…I didn’t really have a problem
With any of those concepts at the time…it’s discussion

But we got a couple of thickened skulls who still try to spin/twist those into being true now when they are definitely not.

Kinda like the kid that would show up on the playground and we’d all roll our eyes and groan…

“This again? ”

 

[BrianLo]

I've read the whole thread and yes, those people exist but MOST were attempting to be more nuanced than "All the Disney makes fat STACKS!!!!!"

Now this is definitely an annoying trend and tactic that bristles me whenever nuance is repetitively shouted down.

Honestly, the person who has made these misstatements by far the most across all these threads is Walter. Because he repeats them all ad nauseum and floods every thread with them, everyone else feels like they are conversations that have actually happened, that haven’t. We’re all actors in his play.

My poor guy would be heartbroken to know Mermaid broke even. Which doesn’t make it majorly disappointing or not a cynically bad remake… but he won’t read this second half of my comment, so brace yourselves.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Now this is definitely an annoying trend and tactic that bristles me whenever nuance is repetitively shouted down.

Honestly, the person who has made these misstatements by far the most across all these threads is Walter. Because he repeats them all ad nauseum and floods every thread with them, everyone else feels like they are conversations that have actually happened, that haven’t. We’re all actors in his play.

You’re looking at my end game…which is purposely and exaggerated blunt…without looking at the slow boil where I don’t shut the nonsense down.

Wrong is wrong…at some point it should be silenced

 

[DKampy]

None of us know the numbers that Disney or any studio is expecting… but this day and age I would guess the hope is to break even in the theatrical window… as everything after that is profit… and if you can make a decent profit in the theatrical it is a huge success

My issue with this thread is the absolute double standard some posters have had with Disney… I remember some people last summer saying Indiana Jones was a huge flop while Mission Impossible was not doing too bad all things considered… I don’t think either studio was happy with it’s performance

Or saying Poor Things had flopped even after it was proven it made a profit… while also saying Killers of a Flower Moon was not p
expected to make a profit

Even this year a poster was saying Ghostbusters was not doing to bad and then said Apes was a huge disappointment

I am sure when DM 4 is released it will be considered a huge Success( and I am sure it will be)when it does not do as well as IO 2… but if the films were reversed and DM 4 was the Disney Movie… people would be comparing why wasn’t Disney able to make as much… as has done plenty of times these past couple of years
L

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

None of us know the numbers that Disney or any studio is expecting… but this day and age I would guess the hope is to break even in the theatrical window… as everything after that is profit… and if you can make a decent profit in the theatrical it is a huge success

My issue with this thread is the absolute double standard some posters have had with Disney… I remember some people last summer saying Indiana Jones was a huge flop while Mission Impossible was not doing too bad all things considered… I don’t think either studio was happy with it’s performance

Or saying Poor Things had flopped even after it was proven it made a profit… while also saying Killers of a Flower Moon was not p
expected to make a profit

Even this year a poster was saying Ghostbusters was not doing to bad and then said Apes was a huge disappointment

I am sure when DM 4 is released it will be considered a huge Success( and I am sure it will be)when it does not do as well as IO 2… but if the films were reversed and DM 4 was the Disney Movie… people would be comparing why wasn’t Disney able to make as much… as has done plenty of times these past couple of years
L

The goal is not to break even and then go to streaming services that can’t make money…

My god

@BrianLo…
Remember when I said these were zombie errors? Now my struggle is apparent

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Could be that if a movie gets good reviews, good press and good word of mouth, and nothing in the plot that might shy the audience away, people go see it en mass. I don't think it's a conspiracy.

…that’s so sensical it should be Common…

And a very merry unbirthday to you

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

None of us know the numbers that Disney or any studio is expecting… but this day and age I would guess the hope is to break even in the theatrical window… as everything after that is profit… and if you can make a decent profit in the theatrical it is a huge success

My issue with this thread is the absolute double standard some posters have had with Disney… I remember some people last summer saying Indiana Jones was a huge flop while Mission Impossible was not doing too bad all things considered… I don’t think either studio was happy with it’s performance

Or saying Poor Things had flopped even after it was proven it made a profit… while also saying Killers of a Flower Moon was not p
expected to make a profit

Even this year a poster was saying Ghostbusters was not doing to bad and then said Apes was a huge disappointment

I am sure when DM 4 is released it will be considered a huge Success( and I am sure it will be)when it does not do as well as IO 2… but if the films were reversed and DM 4 was the Disney Movie… people would be comparing why wasn’t Disney able to make as much… as has done plenty of times these past couple of years
L

Hope is to break even?? No way

 

[DKampy]

The goal is not to break even and then go to streaming services that can’t make money…

My god

@BrianLo…
Remember when I said these were zombie errors? Now my struggle is

Never said the goal is to break even… every Studio is hoping to turn a profit… but with every studio struggling in theatrical… these days it is a win if they can break even… I think people don’t give credit to how much money a film might make PVOD…. Not everything is coming from a Streaming service at no additional charge… Every studio does it while films are still in theaters… so they must not be making nothing… at 19.99 a rental and getting a reported 80% of the take… That can add up quickly

 

[Casper Gutman]

Could be that if a movie gets good reviews, good press and good word of mouth, and nothing in the plot that might shy the audience away, people go see it en mass. I don't think it's a conspiracy.

“Nothing in the plot that might shy the audience away.” That certainly handwaves away a lot of issues and ignores the entire point of this discussion.

It’s funny how many of the “quality is the only thing” posters slip up and inadvertently acknowledge the importance of external factors. It’s understandable, since their stated position is untenable.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don't feel like anyone was making the argument that any of those movies where a box office success because they might make some money in the long run. I read it as people were saying that some of them would end up being profitable so those movies weren’t the abject, over the top disaster that many were trying to make them.

Yup. Most of the movies in question failed at the box office. A lot of posters desperately want to stay ignorant of the way modern entertainment conglomerates actually work. In general, any discussion of nuance or complexity just angers some people because they feel it dilutes the purity of their attack on Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Never said the goal is to break even… every Studio is hoping to turn a profit… but with every studio struggling in theatrical… these days it is a win if they can break even… I think people don’t give credit to how much money a film might make PVOD…. Not everything is coming from a Streaming service at no additional charge… Every studio does it while films are still in theaters… so they must not be making nothing… at 19.99 a rental and getting a reported 80% of the take… That can add up quickly

The goal is to score large profits…right upfront

It creates buzz…it sells product…it increases the fees for licensing deals…it increases the demand for those other things you mentioned.

You’re trying to put square wheels on your car here…just go with what works

 

[Casper Gutman]

We had the whole gamut…it’s there to scroll through:

We had

“They’ll all make money…you’ll see”
Fail

“The movies are good…just some vocal hate trolls will try to sink it”
Fail

“These will make Disney lots of money…cause they’ll drive streaming”
Fail

“They’ll all make money eventually…cause nobody can resist Disney for long”
HUGE FAIL


It’s all pages upon pages back in this thread

You don’t read posts and make up comments to be mad about in your head.

 

[Casper Gutman]

There it is folks.

The not so subtle type of comment that is a mainstay in these parts.

"People don't want to be preached to", i.e. people don't want black mermaids and gay characters in movies. It's saying, if you're a minority, YOU are part of the reason people didn't like a movie or won't go see it. YOU are not suitable for family entertainment. YOUR existence is a bad thing.

These types of comments show it's not just about whether or not an individual movie is good. If a movie is even the slightest bit "preachy" it's pre-judged and attacked for that reason.

Don’t you know, this sort of comment doesn’t exist. Stop acknowledging what people write, it’s not fair.

Oh, and audiences didn’t seem to mind the most pedantically preachy film of 2023, Barbie. The content of the film is immaterial. People prejudge films based on team affiliation, not reality.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don't see anyone saying there is a group that is dictating the global box office. That doesn't mean people don't exist that don't try to influence as many folks as they can. The comments, as I have read them, were more along the lines of how much influence do those types have.

For entertainment, at least in my mind, any group, no matter their goal, will have less impact the more popular something is. It is easy to push a narrative against something no one likes or people are indifferent about which makes bad to mediocre product an easy target.

For example, with Strange World we saw a lot of the "Strange World was a bomb because it had a gay character" narrative being pushed which is nothing more than people with an agenda missing the point and using the movies failure as a means to justify their own problematic views.

The truth is much closer to it was a bomb because it was a mediocre/boring movie. It further missed out on a subset of people but didn't see it because they were various levels of uncomfortable with the depiction of gay people in a movie targeted at children. Unfortunate that we are still at the point where that is an issue but here we are.

Bottom line, people who skip things for ideological issues are not that large a group and are not the difference between success or failure in a media product.

I’d amend this to say the number of people who skip things for ideological reasons is small (though not as small as we’d like to think) but that the number of people that avoid a film out of a vague sense that it’s “against them” is larger and that pervasive, hateful debate around a film can damage widespread perceptions of a film. The overall effect is marginal - Strange World would have bombed big anyway - but it can be significant. As theatergoing becomes less and less regular, marginal influences matter more.