Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

There it is folks.

The not so subtle type of comment that is a mainstay in these parts.

"People don't want to be preached to", i.e. people don't want black mermaids and gay characters in movies. It's saying, if you're a minority, YOU are part of the reason people didn't like a movie or won't go see it. YOU are not suitable for family entertainment. YOUR existence is a bad thing.

These types of comments show it's not just about whether or not an individual movie is good. If a movie is even the slightest bit "preachy" it's pre-judged and attacked for that reason.

Don’t you know, this sort of comment doesn’t exist. Stop acknowledging what people write, it’s not fair.

Oh, and audiences didn’t seem to mind the most pedantically preachy film of 2023, Barbie. The content of the film is immaterial. People prejudge films based on team affiliation, not reality.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don't see anyone saying there is a group that is dictating the global box office. That doesn't mean people don't exist that don't try to influence as many folks as they can. The comments, as I have read them, were more along the lines of how much influence do those types have.

For entertainment, at least in my mind, any group, no matter their goal, will have less impact the more popular something is. It is easy to push a narrative against something no one likes or people are indifferent about which makes bad to mediocre product an easy target.

For example, with Strange World we saw a lot of the "Strange World was a bomb because it had a gay character" narrative being pushed which is nothing more than people with an agenda missing the point and using the movies failure as a means to justify their own problematic views.

The truth is much closer to it was a bomb because it was a mediocre/boring movie. It further missed out on a subset of people but didn't see it because they were various levels of uncomfortable with the depiction of gay people in a movie targeted at children. Unfortunate that we are still at the point where that is an issue but here we are.

Bottom line, people who skip things for ideological issues are not that large a group and are not the difference between success or failure in a media product.

I’d amend this to say the number of people who skip things for ideological reasons is small (though not as small as we’d like to think) but that the number of people that avoid a film out of a vague sense that it’s “against them” is larger and that pervasive, hateful debate around a film can damage widespread perceptions of a film. The overall effect is marginal - Strange World would have bombed big anyway - but it can be significant. As theatergoing becomes less and less regular, marginal influences matter more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don’t read posts and make up comments to be mad about in your head.

All that crap is there…and you need to control your feelings better, Luke

 

[Casper Gutman]

All that crap is there…and you need to control your feelings better, Luke

You need to develop self-awareness and restraint. And stop telling everyone how awesome you are, it’s very silly.

 

[TP2000]

"People don't want to be preached to", i.e. people don't want black mermaids and gay characters in movies. It's saying, if you're a minority, YOU are part of the reason people didn't like a movie or won't go see it. YOU are not suitable for family entertainment. YOUR existence is a bad thing.

As a gay man myself, I'll tackle the gay issue specifically.

Why do you think Strange World flopped so horribly around the globe from Mexico to Finland to Brazil, while Inside Out 2 is doing gangbuster business in all of those same countries with the same audiences?

I think it's because most human parents on planet Earth aren't comfortable taking their 8 year old child to a Disney cartoon movie about a gay child. If Disney wants to continue making profitable movies that most Earthlings will take their young children to, they'd be wise to accept that and learn from it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And stop telling everyone how awesome you are, it’s very silly.

You’re projecting and that’s not coming from me…

How did all this come up again? Oh right…the SUCCESS of inside out was being talked about and the same handful of sock puppets decided to say the “hate conspiracy” torpedoed the last round of flops…

Just take the L and move on.

You don’t own Disneys failures. And why? Cause they don’t care that you…or I…exist!

It’s liberating

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As a gay man myself, I'll tackle the gay issue specifically.

Why do you think Strange World flopped so horribly around the globe from Mexico to Finland to Brazil, while Inside Out 2 is doing gangbuster business in all of those same countries with the same audiences?

I think it's because most human parents on planet Earth aren't comfortable taking their 8 year old child to a Disney cartoon movie about a gay child. If Disney wants to continue making profitable movies that most Earthlings will take their young children to, they'd be wise to accept that and learn from it.

View attachment 793232

Yes. The undercurrent of this whole debate has been Disneys approach to “progress”

They can be measured and practical…because their business is selling product.

Or they can read a report from an analyst in the board room…decree it…and have people try to smash it into the audience’s faces like a hammer.
Does the world suck? Yes
Does that mean we can’t get there? Absolutely not

 

[brideck]

I think it's because most human parents on planet Earth aren't comfortable taking their 8 year old child to a Disney cartoon movie about a gay child.

Straw man. It's not a movie "about a gay child." There is a teenager that fits that description, though, just like there is in all of your kids' schools/communities.

It's a movie that is both an eco-fable about how powering our lives can have a negative impact on our environment and a movie about accepting our children for being different from how we want them to be. [Note: The 2nd point is not, in fact, about the aforementioned gay child.]

 

[TP2000]

Straw man. It's not a movie "about a gay child." There is a teenager that fits that description, though, just like there is in all of your kids' schools/communities.

It's a movie that is both an eco-fable about how powering our lives can have a negative impact on our environment and a movie about accepting our children for being different from how we want them to be. [Note: The 2nd point is not, in fact, about aforementioned gay child.]

Apparently that wasn't a movie that adults across the globe wanted to take their children to.

I'd forgotten about the "eco-fable" angle, which sounds even cringier than the gay kid, to be honest. Especially when the eco-fable lecture is coming from a global corporation that wastes tons of energy making robots sing and dance for tourists and sends actors to Cannes every year in a fleet of private jets so they can receive teary standing ovations.

That's a bad business and creative decision on the part of Disney, and a quick way to vaporize about $200 Million in production and marketing costs.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I do.



But perhaps it would be better if @Casper Gutman could explain to us what exactly "the hate network" that controls the entire planet of movie-going adults and tells them not to see certain Disney movies is exactly.

Because as of now, it's just sort of a great punchline to a joke. I'd love to have it explained to us exactly how the hate network operates on six continents to control global movie consumers and successfully dissuades them from seeing certain Disney movies aimed at family audiences.

Until some sort of evidence is provided for the existence of the hate network, I'm of the belief that those movies flop so badly because most parents on Earth just aren't comfortable or interested in seeing those specific movies.

I originally thought the hate network posts were about YouTube sites like Nerdrotic but now I have no idea either, those sites combined reach a few million people at most, not the billions that it would take to doom a movie worldwide, even throwing in mainstream right sites like FoxNews wouldn’t have a fraction of the reach needed to influence the entire world.

I think we’re in tinfoil hat territory to think there’s an underlying “network” that can influence billions of people globally.

 

[TP2000]

This can't really be answered on this forum, which you probably know. But feel free to look into the work of something like the ISD and see what you think.

I'm afraid you're going to need to give me a better hint. I have no idea what ISD stands for, and just now when I Googled that acronym all I got was a list of school districts in towns and cities that start with the letter 'I' or that use the word "Independent" in their school district title.

Can you give me another hint?

 

[brideck]

I'd forgotten about the "eco-fable" angle, which sounds even cringier than the gay kid, to be honest. Especially when the eco-fable lecture is coming from a global corporation that wastes tons of energy making robots sing and dance for tourists and sends actors to Cannes every year in a fleet of private jets so they can receive teary standing ovations.

The eco-fable angle is probably them chasing the audience of kids/adults who really enjoy Studio Ghibli's movies.

 

[brideck]

I'm afraid you're going to need to give me a better hint. I have no idea what ISD stands for, and just now when I Googled that acronym all I got was a list of school districts in towns and cities that start with the letter 'I' or that use the word "Independent" in their school district title.

Can you give me another hint?

Really? It's #3 in the Google results in a private window for me. <Ctrl-F> hate on your search results, or I suppose just add that to your search terms.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I originally thought the hate network posts were about YouTube sites like Nerdrotic but now I have no idea either, those sites combined reach a few million people at most, not the billions that it would take to doom a movie worldwide, even throwing in mainstream right sites like FoxNews wouldn’t have a fraction of the reach needed to influence the entire world.

I think we’re in tinfoil hat territory to think there’s an underlying “network” that can influence billions of people globally.

I very strongly suspect you are very, very willing to acknowledge the existence of a loose, informal network of ideologically likeminded outlets - mainstream media, YouTube, bloggers, etc - attempting to influence public opinion if we start talking about MSNBC, the New York Times, BBC etc.

 

[TP2000]

The eco-fable angle is probably them chasing the audience of kids/adults who really enjoy Studio Ghibli's movies.

Oh. Well, it didn't work.

And no wonder, because Disney's entire business model is built on decadent luxury and wasteful use of resources.

There's no good reason why you need giant air conditioned warehouses in a Florida swamp full of singing robots, on a property that encourages the entire audience to either fly across oceans or drive across multiple states to get there. The whole concept of Disney World and Disneyland is wasteful and practically sinful, at least if you really do believe that using more energy than is required for your basic safety and health is bad for the planet.

Just the fleet of Gulfstream jets that Disney maintains at Van Nuys Airport to fly executives and company talent around the globe for business and leisure, just so they don't have to suffer the indignities of First Class commercial air travel with the peasants, undermines the preachy lecture against using energy that is contained in Strange World.

 

[TP2000]

Really? It's #3 in the Google results in a private window for me. <Ctrl-F> hate on your search results, or I suppose just add that to your search terms.

I played around with the search function, and got Institute for Strategic Dialogue out of London? Is that what you were getting at to look into? I've never heard of them.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I'm afraid you're going to need to give me a better hint. I have no idea what ISD stands for, and just now when I Googled that acronym all I got was a list of school districts in towns and cities that start with the letter 'I' or that use the word "Independent" in their school district title.

Can you give me another hint?

I had no idea either and did a search and got pages of school districts also, then a bunch of results for investor state disputes , maybe your browser history needs to direct you toward the result, I still have no clue what ISD is. I’m old though so it wouldn’t be the first time I’m out of the loop.

 

[brideck]

Oh. Well, it didn't work.

And no wonder, because Disney's entire business model is built on decadent luxury and wasteful use of resources.

There's no good reason why you need giant air conditioned warehouses in a Florida swamp full of singing robots and dancing ghosts, on a property that encourages the entire audience to either fly across oceans or drive across multiple states to get there. The whole concept of Disney World and Disneyland is wasteful and practically sinful, if you really do believe that using more energy than is required for your basic safety and health is bad for the planet.

Just the fleet of Gulfstream jets that Disney maintains at Van Nuys Airport to fly executives and company talent around the globe for business and leisure, just so they don't have to suffer the indignities of First Class air travel with the peasants, undermines the preachy lecture against using energy that is contained in Strange World.

Who said it was a preachy lecture? That's a pretty specific categorization from someone who hasn't actually seen the movie in question. It's also not about energy consumption writ large, but where that energy comes from. WDW is allegedly 40% powered by solar as of last year, so it's not as if Disney is sleeping on this particular issue.

Private jets (and aviation, in general) are a drop in the bucket of all of the emissions generated in this world, and many of them have been switched to using more efficient fuels over the last 15-20 years. But I suppose you're trying to appeal to our natural "eat the rich" tendencies with this line of critique.

 

[brideck]

I played around with the search function, and got Institute for Strategic Dialogue out of London? Is that what you were getting at to look into? I've never heard of them.

That's the one. I wouldn't have expected you to.

 

[TP2000]

That's the one. I wouldn't have expected you to.

Okay. I've got their website up in a different tab. I've never heard of this group, but I'll go read their site in a bit.