Disney Irish
Premium Member
Like I said we’re a dysfunctional family here.
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Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
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LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
You can’t have it both ways. On the one hand, you’re praising shows of past decades for including gay characters without fuss or fanfare “as normal and routine parts of society”. But when Inside Out 2 does the same with a Black character, you decry it as pandering and inorganic.Breathe.
I made up that plotline and pulled that example out of thin air, as I vaguely remember it being discussed in a thread here or on the Disneyland side.
The fact that you have to dig up some article to prove that somewhere on planet Earth there is a Black lady who coaches hockey proves the point.
If you have to go to Google to see if something actually exists, it's not going to read as organic to the audience.
I’ve said it before, but the decks are always impossibly stacked in these discussions. Indeed, it’s often not a real discussion at all—just agenda-driven projection and/or trolling.
Chi84
Premium Member
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
(“And therefore not worth responding to”, I hear you thinking!)
You sound just as confused as I am where that line is…As being woke use to be a positive…. But because someone was offended by black mermaids and a lesbian astronaut the term was demonize
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Chi84
Premium Member
I will never understand how being kind and inclusive to others bothers some people.
Completely agree
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Woke is a completely misused word. It’s been co-opted as a synonym for (very) “liberal.”
The real meaning (slang) is to be aware of what’s going on around you. That’s all.
So, Snow White isn’t woke, Captain America isn’t woke, Disney isn’t woke, pride month isn’t woke, etc. It’s all misusing a word.
The real meaning (slang) is to be aware of what’s going on around you. That’s all.
So, Snow White isn’t woke, Captain America isn’t woke, Disney isn’t woke, pride month isn’t woke, etc. It’s all misusing a word.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
This isn't a race or a competition, it's a conversation. A discussion, if you will.
If you think it's organic for a kids hockey coach to be a Black Lesbian, then go for it and live your own adventure. But most folks would find that character casting to be jarring and incongruous to natural storytelling.
If I may add in my two cents in a non confrontational manner. I think what you are missing here is not that it’s always “I know it when I see it”. But that the woke movement also actively looks for it when it really isn’t there. Your sticking point on Inside Out 2 I think is one of the latter.
The term you are maybe searching for is token representation. But it’s not really ‘woke’ by any sense of the definition. Either the old or the new.
The other time I think you were looking for it when it wasn’t really there was related to Ms Marvel. Which is neither really a woke character nor token in her representation. Being a minority inherently doesn’t make it either, it’s all how it’s made and framed.
Meanwhile Barbie was inarguably the most classically woke film of 2023. But you give it a pass because you actually watched it and just didn’t pre-judge it. I don’t agree with the woke movement, obviously. But even if I did I don’t like how it encourages pre-judgement. You actually have to see it to know it. Which I think swings back to the original point that a few things wouldn’t pass the muster that you love from decades ago, because people would be way too quick to judge. I cannot possibly see how Modern family would play today. Schitts creek would still Trojan horse its way in because it’s a Canadian production. Mulan and Mrs. Doubtfire would be virtually unreleasable in our current environment as first exposure concepts.
Not your interest, but the children’s X-men cartoon from the 90’s is more woke than anything the MCU has farted out. Including probably Cap 4 (segue).
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
This puzzled me at first, I think because I still encounter “woke” in its original (positive) sense. I call what you’re describing here the “Woke Scare” (Googling it, I see I’m not alone).
TP2000
Well-Known Member
So many quotes, so little time! 
A few out of how many million since the invention of radio and indoor ice rinks?
Again, that kind of proves my point. It's exceedingly rare, thus not necessary for a tertiary, inconsequential background character. If you do that, you pull people out of the story.
Uh huh. I'm sure.
No, as someone who once attended (against my will, but then happily bought the first round after the game) more than one Portland Winterhawks game in the early 1990's with a gaggle of Lesbians, I can assure you there is only a small subset of Lesbian ice hokey fans. The other 50 to 100 ladies at the games seemed to be long-suffering straight girlfriends or wives. It's the Black part makes it doubly incongruous; most ice hockey league cities have very small Black populations. And even smaller Black Lesbian populations. Thus, it's almost statistically impossible to find a Black Lesbian ice hockey coach.
See my point above about pulling the audience out of the story just to virtue signal and appear woke.
I'm sure you are mistaken. @Disney Irish said I was making that up earlier today. You are making that up. No CM called you "Friend" instead of "Sir" on your recent visits. You just made that up. Or something.
If she'd been a Black softball coach, it could have passed the smell test. But a Black Lesbian ice hockey coach? That's one too many virtue signals for much of the audience to bear. Best to keep it simple, and low key. Believable. Keep it grounded.
We used to call that The Golden Rule. I learned it in Sunday School around age 7, in a mainstream Lutheran church in downtown Seattle that 15 years later asked me to no longer attend services there because of my "lifestyle choices" (AKA... GAAAAY!). But then a few decades later, when the collection plates began to run dry, they changed their mind and hung a rainbow pride flag above the front doors to drum up business. Funny how that works with religion, isn't it?
Apparently, now you have to pay an HR consultant big bucks to teach that to you. But I still follow it, and I still call it The Golden Rule. It's a good one.
Be careful. I was told by a Black member of these forums that we shouldn't be even using the word as White Folx. Try and eductate yourself before you speak. Or at least, that's what I was once told without hesitation here.
Also there have been a few coaches who have been wheelchair bound coaching sports teams in real life. So again your example fails here.
A few out of how many million since the invention of radio and indoor ice rinks?
Again, that kind of proves my point. It's exceedingly rare, thus not necessary for a tertiary, inconsequential background character. If you do that, you pull people out of the story.
Uh huh. I'm sure.
I mean, the obvious reason is that every female associated with the sport of ice hockey is a lesbian (at least in one old man's head). Duh.
No, as someone who once attended (against my will, but then happily bought the first round after the game) more than one Portland Winterhawks game in the early 1990's with a gaggle of Lesbians, I can assure you there is only a small subset of Lesbian ice hokey fans. The other 50 to 100 ladies at the games seemed to be long-suffering straight girlfriends or wives. It's the Black part makes it doubly incongruous; most ice hockey league cities have very small Black populations. And even smaller Black Lesbian populations. Thus, it's almost statistically impossible to find a Black Lesbian ice hockey coach.
See my point above about pulling the audience out of the story just to virtue signal and appear woke.
I'm sure you are mistaken. @Disney Irish said I was making that up earlier today. You are making that up. No CM called you "Friend" instead of "Sir" on your recent visits. You just made that up. Or something.
If she'd been a Black softball coach, it could have passed the smell test. But a Black Lesbian ice hockey coach? That's one too many virtue signals for much of the audience to bear. Best to keep it simple, and low key. Believable. Keep it grounded.
We used to call that The Golden Rule. I learned it in Sunday School around age 7, in a mainstream Lutheran church in downtown Seattle that 15 years later asked me to no longer attend services there because of my "lifestyle choices" (AKA... GAAAAY!). But then a few decades later, when the collection plates began to run dry, they changed their mind and hung a rainbow pride flag above the front doors to drum up business. Funny how that works with religion, isn't it?
Apparently, now you have to pay an HR consultant big bucks to teach that to you. But I still follow it, and I still call it The Golden Rule. It's a good one.
Be careful. I was told by a Black member of these forums that we shouldn't be even using the word as White Folx. Try and eductate yourself before you speak. Or at least, that's what I was once told without hesitation here.
brideck
Well-Known Member
Who on Earth was talking about fans? "Associated with ice hockey" means people who actually do the thing -- players, coaches. Whatever, I know reading's hard.
And here you are still doing it. Bringing up a manufactured example to then rail against is ridiculous.
I'm sorry that you don't think black people have a place in ice hockey, or that it "took you out of the movie" (that you probably barely watched, if you even did). But that's on you and your biases, not on the movie.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
As has already been pointed out, there is absolutely no reference to her sexuality.
She seemed believable enough to me, but then (unlike you) I actually watched the film.
ETA: It really isn’t worth engaging, and I edited the rest of my post accordingly.
brideck
Well-Known Member
I know this isn't at me, but funnily enough I still haven't seen Inside Out 2 yet. We're nearing the end of our Death Race (only 5 movies to go!) and have decided to save this for last.
Looking forward to seeing how completely my disbelief will be shattered when we get there.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
If I’m not mistaken, he hasn’t watched a single one of the Disney, Pixar, or Marvel movies or shows under discussion in these threads. I think we should all bear that in mind and reflect on how surreal it is to be exchanging posts with him on this topic (and yes, I’m guilty of it too). Can you imagine how absurd it would be for someone who had never been to the parks and had no interest in any of the attractions to keep posting about them over in the main part of the forum? Would others really engage with such an individual?
brideck
Well-Known Member
I think that's true, too, but I didn't want to assume.
I, on the other hand, finally saw A Complete Unknown (last night) and Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes (tonight), so I'm ready to engage. Enjoyed both of them, but was especially struck by how locked in all the performances in the Dylan pic are. Edward Norton really nailed Pete Seeger -- we've been listening to a lot of his stuff from that era recently.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I’ll admit to being a bit underwhelmed, but then the thing I loved most about the original film was Bing Bong.
I really recommend Dream Productions on Disney+; it’s fantastic!
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Rare doesn't mean statistically impossible which is what you said.So many quotes, so little time!
A few out of how many million since the invention of radio and indoor ice rinks?
Again, that kind of proves my point. It's exceedingly rare, thus not necessary for a tertiary, inconsequential background character. If you do that, you pull people out of the story.
I'm sorry if you don't believe me, but unlike you that makes stuff up that is 100% proven to be false this you can't prove either way. So you just have to take my word for it, or don't, I don't care. I know my experience.Uh huh. I'm sure.
As someone who has actually attended a hockey game in THIS century, I can tell you that your experience is quite outdated and wrong. We are in the 21st century now, things have changed since the 1990s. So your "assurance" here is just wrong. Also still don't know why you're railing against someones sexuality here when it wasn't even a thing in any movie, some manufactured example on a point that isn't even a thing.
I don't question their experience, I question yours. Because as has been shown in this very exchange you make things up to try to prove a point. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt here, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that CMs still use "Sir" or even "Ma'am" in dealing with guests. So maybe things have changed again with CMs since the last time you went and they have soften their rules, or maybe as with @Vegas Disney Fan you're just friendly and they want to call you their friend and so address you as such. I don't know. But I do know I was called "Sir" on multiple occasions in December.
Why does the sport matter or for that matter why does her sexuality matter at all? You're harping on something that isn't even a thing. I don't even think you're trying to prove a point here anymore, it just seems like you just don't want to back down because you've been called out. Let it go, its not even a thing.
As for the rest of your post, its just even more silly so didn't even want to address it.
brideck
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I also liked Bing Bong (and/or Sadness) the most in the original, but it's been awhile. We might give it a rewatch before hitting the sequel, just for yuks.
Cool, I forgot this was even a thing, much less that it was already out. It looks like we'll just have to have a real emotional weekend in a few days.
