Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TP2000]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that non-black people can’t use the word but it is used wrong probably 700 times a day across the entire internet

It's used "wrong" by your definition because the word has evolved through common and mass usage in the past five years.

I fully understand that it meant something a bit different to the small sub-culture that invented the word 15 or so years ago. But now in 2025 the word "woke" has a specific meaning for people who had never heard of the word 8 years ago. The fact that an old guy in Utah (Utah, for Chrisssakes!) can use it in a sentence proves that it has evolved and morphed into something different as it entered American pop culture's lexicon and vocabulary.

Some of the stuff Disney and Pixar and Marvel were putting into their movies the past few years seemed woke and annoyed people, and the box office suffered because of that. That Disneyland and Disney World removed "Ladies and gentlemen" from their spiels and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke, and very annoying to some longtime Disney fans. It's also annoying to people who aren't Disney fans.

"Woke" may have meant something in 2012, but now in 2025 it means something different.

 

[Agent H]

As I said above, if you have to do a Google search for proof, it's not a natural fit for a plotline or story. Especially for a brief background character who shouldn't be taking the spotlight from primary characters.

That's what reads as "woke" to many people today. It jars people out of the story too much, and thus annoys people.

In what way did she take the spotlight from the primary characters ? Are you talking about googling things or her presence in the movie?

 

[Disney Irish]

and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke

Yeah that isn't even a thing, at least not at Disneyland. I was called Sir plenty of times by CMs just back in December when I went to Disneyland, and every other trip for the past decade+ that I can remember. So again something you've made up.

 

[Agent H]

It's used "wrong" by your definition because the word has evolved through common and mass usage in the past five years.

I fully understand that it meant something a bit different to the small sub-culture that invented the word 15 or so years ago. But now in 2025 the word "woke" has a specific meaning for people who had never heard of the word 8 years ago. The fact that an old guy in Utah (Utah, for Chrisssakes!) can use it in a sentence proves that it has evolved and morphed into something different as it entered American pop culture's lexicon and vocabulary.

Some of the stuff Disney and Pixar and Marvel were putting into their movies the past few years seemed woke and annoyed people, and the box office suffered because of that. That Disneyland and Disney World removed "Ladies and gentlemen" from their spiels and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke, and very annoying to some longtime Disney fans.

"Woke" may have meant something in 2012, but now in 2025 it means something different.

Yes it has changed for better or for worse also what’s wrong with being called friend? You wouldn’t have a problem with it if one of the characters called you friend would you? Think about it from a story perspective Maybe you live on Main Street and you know that person personally in the story

 

[TP2000]

In what way did she take the spotlight from the primary characters ? Are you talking about googling things or her presence in the movie?

There's a thousand examples you could use. I pulled that one out of thin air, and within moments I was criticized for mentioning that it feels forced and unusual. Which proves my point exactly.

But when a background character feels or looks inorganic or unusual, it very rarely helps the story. It usually jars many in the audience just enough that they pause and reflect on it, instead of focusing on the real story and plotline they paid to see.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's a thousand examples you could use. I pulled that one out of thin air, and within moments I was criticized for mentioning that it feels forced and unusual. Which proves my point exactly.

But when a background character feels or looks inorganic or unusual, it very rarely helps the story. It usually jars many in the audience just enough that they pause and reflect on it, instead of focusing on the real story and plotline they paid to see.

Problem here is your example, at least in this one case, is completely made up by you as you admitted. So that is the only inorganic thing here. Time to quit while you're ahead on this one my friend.

 

[TP2000]

Yes it has changed for better or for worse also what’s wrong with being called friend? You wouldn’t have a problem with it if one of the characters called you friend would you?

When you go to Disneyland you are lucky to interact with maybe two or three speaking characters per visit, but you interact with dozens and dozens of CM's as they load boats, sell churros, ask how many, tell you to stay to your right, sell you a t-shirt, take your picture at the turnstile, etc.

Think about it from a story perspective Maybe you live on Main Street and you know that person personally in the story

I don't live on Main Street USA. I am a visitor at Disneyland. I don't know anyone who lives on Main Street USA, and when they sell me a Starbucks or a sweatshirt, they are not my "friend", they are sales staff serving me as a customer.

You actually believed Bob Chapek when he told us every CM in Star Wars Land was going to have their own backstory to pull us into their immersive world, didn't you?

 

[TP2000]

Problem here is your example, at least in this one case, is completely made up by you as you admitted. So that is the only inorganic thing here. Time to quit while you're ahead on this one my friend.

This isn't a race or a competition, it's a conversation. A discussion, if you will.

If you think it's organic for a kids hockey coach to be a Black Lesbian, then go for it and live your own adventure. But most folks would find that character casting to be jarring and incongruous to natural storytelling.

 

[Disney Irish]

This isn't a race or a competition, it's a conversation. A discussion, if you will.

If you think it's organic for a kids hockey coach to be a Black Lesbian, then go for it and live your own adventure. But most folks would find that character casting to be jarring and incongruous to natural storytelling.

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality. So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across in a discussion. Do better.

 

[Chi84]

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality. So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across. Do better.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think someone would make up something if they are “better than this?”

 

[TP2000]

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality.

There's nothing to "find" because I made up a fake Black Lesbian hockey coach, she doesn't exist in any Disney production. And that upsets you? Why?

So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across in a discussion. Do better.

What if I had said the hockey coach was a Cambodian Paraplegic? Would that be better for a hockey story? Or worse?

It still proves my point exactly; if it seems weird to the audience, it's probably weird.

 

[Disney Irish]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think someone would make up something if they are “better than this?”

I've interacted with TP for almost a decade, and I know he has the ability to be better than having to make stuff up to prove a point. But maybe you're right, maybe I'm asking too much.

 

[Chi84]

I've interacted with TP for almost a decade, and I know he has the ability to be better than having to make stuff up to prove a point. But maybe you're right, maybe I'm asking too much.

Just maybe consider why it happens so consistently.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That Disneyland and Disney World removed "Ladies and gentlemen" from their spiels and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke, and very annoying to some longtime Disney fans. It's also annoying to people who aren't Disney fans.

This is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, it sounds so unnatural, it reminds me of a bartending job I had years ago when they instituted a formal “Welcome to (name of bar), how may I help you today? greeting, there’s nothing inherently wrong with the greeting but no one actually talks like that so it sounds forced rather than natural.

I bet the last time I’ve been called anything other than friend by a CM at Disneyland is 2 or 3 years ago.

In the grand scheme of things it wouldn’t make my top 1000 list of grievances but it’s annoying.

 

[TP2000]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think someone would make up something if they are “better than this?”

The best part was that it all proved the point I was making; when it takes the audience out of the story and sends them to Google to see if it even exists, that's not a good thing.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's nothing to "find" because I made up a fake Black Lesbian hockey coach, she doesn't exist in any Disney production. And that upsets you? Why?



What if I had said the hockey coach was a Cambodian Paraplegic? Would that be better for a hockey story? Or worse?

It still proves my point exactly; if it seems weird to the audience, it's probably weird.

The problem is that this example at the very least is tied to an actual Disney movie released just 8 months ago, even if you made up parts of it. So that example is something you used for a specific reason, just like all the others you used. And when caught you changed it to "oh I made up the whole thing".

Also I wouldn't care if Disney or any other studio made a kids movie about a Cambodian Paraplegic coach, or any other example you want to make up in your mind.

 

[Chi84]

This is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, it sounds so unnatural, it reminds me of a bartending job I had years ago when they instituted a formal “Welcome to (name of bar), how may I help you today? greeting, there’s nothing inherently wrong with the greeting but no one actually talks like that so it sounds forced rather than natural.

I bet the last time I’ve been called anything other than friend by a CM at Disneyland is 2 or 3 years ago.

Maybe you seem particularly friendly.

 

[TP2000]

I bet the last time I’ve been called anything other than friend by a CM at Disneyland is 2 or 3 years ago.

You should go to Disneyland with Sir Irish. He's getting identified by his gender by CM's all over the park!

Yeah that isn't even a thing, at least not at Disneyland. I was called Sir plenty of times by CMs just back in December when I went to Disneyland, and every other trip for the past decade+ that I can remember. So again something you've made up.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Maybe you seem particularly friendly.

It’s possible, I have been in customer service for 3 decades so I go out of my way to be overly nice to guest facing positions.

 

[Disney Irish]

What if I had said the hockey coach was a Cambodian Paraplegic? Would that be better for a hockey story? Or worse?

Oh by the way, it wasn't that long ago we had a movie about a wheelchair bound coach of a sports team.

Also there have been a few coaches who have been wheelchair bound coaching sports teams in real life. So again your example fails here.