Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TP2000]

The only “gay” shows I watched regularly were Will and Grace, Queer eye for the straight guy, and Modern family and I don’t recall any of them being called woke. The first 2 may have been before woke became a commonly used term though.

Agreed. Most folks I know use the term "woke" as a criticism when something looks/feels forced and inorganic, or just too cringey to deal with. And that's how I tend to use the word too. You know "woke" when you see it, and it just reads as wrong.

Stuff like.... Dylan Mulvaney celebrating one year of girlhood with a Bud Light, Gillette razors telling their male customer base that masculinity is inherently toxic, making a kids hockey coach a Black Lesbian which is almost statistically impossible, etc., etc.

Seamlessly weaving a gay character or two into plotlines and story arcs, and making them the simple equal of other straight characters, isn't "woke". In the 21st century, that's just normal storytelling for the most part. It would only be woke if it seemed forced and fake and completely out of place for mere shock value or virtue signaling by the sponsor or studio.

 

[Agent H]

Agreed. Most folks I know use the term "woke" as a criticism when something looks/feels forced and inorganic, or just too cringey to deal with.

Stuff like.... Dylan Mulvaney celebrating one year of girlhood with a Bud Light, Gillette razors telling their male customer base that masculinity is inherently toxic, making a kids hockey coach a Black Lesbian which is almost statistically impossible, etc., etc.

Seamlessly weaving a gay character or two into plotlines and story arcs, and making them the simple equal of other straight characters, isn't "woke". In the 21st century, that's just normal storytelling for the most part. It would only be woke if it seemed forced and fake and completely out of place for mere shock value or virtue signaling by the sponsor or studio.

If your friends are using woke as a criticism maybe they need to be told what it actually means while I agree that there is definitely bad representation ( rise of skywalker has entered the chat) it is never done for shock value

 

[TP2000]

If your friends are using woke as a criticism maybe they need to be told what it actually means while I agree that there is definitely bad representation ( rise of skywalker has entered the chat) it is never done for shock value

Funny you mention that. Over in the Disneyland forum a few years ago, there was a poster who is a Black young lady who kept chastising us non-Blacks for using the word "woke" wrong. She even went so far as to suggest we should not be using the word at all unless we were Black. I declined her instruction to obey her on that one.

I liken the mid 2020's use of the word "woke" to the term "hippie". Hippie started in the counter-culture community itself around 1967 to describe themselves, but quickly got picked up by media and the squares and by 1970 was used to describe anyone who had long hair or a counter-culture lifestyle of any kind. People who may not necessarily have been a hippie were called hippies just by the way they styled (or didn't style) their hair, or if they simply drove a VW.

Same thing with woke. Whatever meaning it might have had in 2014 in academia or in some niche cultures has been usurped by mass media and pop culture. "Woke" is now the word to describe a Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light ad, whether we like it or not.

 

[Disney Irish]

....making a kids hockey coach a Black Lesbian which is almost statistically impossible, etc., etc.

I'm sorry but wait a minute, when was the sexuality of the coach in Inside Out 2 ever discussed? I've seen the movie a few times and I can't recall it ever being discussed. So how do you know she is a lesbian, or straight, or anything other than a black female coach of a girls hockey team? I think this is an assumption on your part, not the actual reality.

Also its not a statistical impossibility to have a black female coach in hockey, as I showed in the Inside Out 2 thread when this same topic was brought up there is actually a black female head coach in hockey today. Here is an updated story about the same coach, who is now the head coach of an NCAA Hockey team -

Color of Hockey: 'Rising star' Koelzer excelling as 1st Black woman coach of NCAA team | NHL.com

Guided Division III Arcadia to 2024 conference championship in program's 3rd season

www.nhl.com

 

[TP2000]

I'm sorry but wait a minute, when was the sexuality of the coach in Inside Out 2 ever discussed? I've seen the movie a few times and I can't recall it ever being discussed. So how do you know she is a lesbian, or straight, or anything other than a black female coach of a girls hockey team? I think this is an assumption on your part, not the actual reality.

Also its not a statistical impossibility to have a black female coach in hockey, as I showed in the Inside Out 2 thread when this same topic was brought up. Here is an updated story about the same coach, who is now the head coach of an NCAA Hockey team -

Color of Hockey: 'Rising star' Koelzer excelling as 1st Black woman coach of NCAA team | NHL.com

Guided Division III Arcadia to 2024 conference championship in program's 3rd season

www.nhl.com

Breathe.

I made up that plotline and pulled that example out of thin air, as I vaguely remember it being discussed in a thread here or on the Disneyland side.

The fact that you have to dig up some article to prove that somewhere on planet Earth there is a Black lady who coaches hockey proves the point.

If you have to go to Google to see if something actually exists, it's not going to read as organic to the audience.

 

[Agent H]

I'm sorry but wait a minute, when was the sexuality of the coach in Inside Out 2 ever discussed? I've seen the movie a few times and I can't recall it ever being discussed. So how do you know she is a lesbian, or straight, or anything other than a black female coach of a girls hockey team? I think this is an assumption on your part, not the actual reality.

Also its not a statistical impossibility to have a black female coach in hockey, as I showed in the Inside Out 2 thread when this same topic was brought up there is actually a black female head coach in hockey today. Here is an updated story about the same coach, who is now the head coach of an NCAA Hockey team -

Color of Hockey: 'Rising star' Koelzer excelling as 1st Black woman coach of NCAA team | NHL.com

Guided Division III Arcadia to 2024 conference championship in program's 3rd season

www.nhl.com

It was not mentioned and the fact we even have to prove that a black woman could a hockey coach is sad

 

[Agent H]

Funny you mention that. Over in the Disneyland forum a few years ago, there was a poster who is a Black young lady who kept chastising us non-Blacks for using the word "woke" wrong. She even went so far as to suggest we should not be using the word at all unless we were Black. I declined her instruction to obey her on that one.

I liken the mid 2020's use of the word "woke" to the term "hippie". Hippie started in the counter-culture community itself around 1967 to describe themselves, but quickly got picked up by media and the squares and by 1970 was used to describe anyone who had long hair or a counter-culture lifestyle of any kind. People who may not necessarily have been a hippie were called hippies just by the way they styled (or didn't style) their hair, or if they simply drove a VW.

Same thing with woke. Whatever meaning it might have had in 2014 in academia or in some niche cultures has been usurped by mass media and pop culture. "Woke" is now the word to describe a Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light ad, whether we like it or not.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that non-black people can’t use the word but it is used wrong probably 700 times a day across the entire internet

 

[TP2000]

It was not mentioned and the fact we even have to prove that a black woman could a hockey coach is sad

As I said above, if you have to do a Google search for proof, it's not a natural fit for a plotline or story. Especially for a brief background character who shouldn't be taking the spotlight from primary characters.

That's what reads as "woke" to many people today. It jars people out of the story too much, and thus annoys people.

 

[Disney Irish]

Breathe.

I made up that plotline and pulled that example out of thin air, as I vaguely remember it being discussed in a thread here or on the Disneyland side.

The fact that you have to dig up some article to prove that somewhere on planet Earth there is a Black lady who coaches hockey proves the point.

If you have to go to Google to see if something actually exists, it's not going to read as organic to the audience.

I didn't have to google it because I knew she existed, also my point is that the movie doesn't even broach the topic of the coaches sexuality, that is really what I have an issue with. That is an assumption you've made based on it appears nothing as you just admitted you pulled it out of thin air and made it up, classic TP. So my breathing is just fine, thank you for your concern though on making sure I get enough oxygen.

Also it may not read as organic to YOU to have a black female coach, but to others who are young females of color its important and reads as perfectly normal to have such a coach in a story.

 

[TP2000]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that non-black people can’t use the word but it is used wrong probably 700 times a day across the entire internet

It's used "wrong" by your definition because the word has evolved through common and mass usage in the past five years.

I fully understand that it meant something a bit different to the small sub-culture that invented the word 15 or so years ago. But now in 2025 the word "woke" has a specific meaning for people who had never heard of the word 8 years ago. The fact that an old guy in Utah (Utah, for Chrisssakes!) can use it in a sentence proves that it has evolved and morphed into something different as it entered American pop culture's lexicon and vocabulary.

Some of the stuff Disney and Pixar and Marvel were putting into their movies the past few years seemed woke and annoyed people, and the box office suffered because of that. That Disneyland and Disney World removed "Ladies and gentlemen" from their spiels and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke, and very annoying to some longtime Disney fans. It's also annoying to people who aren't Disney fans.

"Woke" may have meant something in 2012, but now in 2025 it means something different.

 

[Agent H]

As I said above, if you have to do a Google search for proof, it's not a natural fit for a plotline or story. Especially for a brief background character who shouldn't be taking the spotlight from primary characters.

That's what reads as "woke" to many people today. It jars people out of the story too much, and thus annoys people.

In what way did she take the spotlight from the primary characters ? Are you talking about googling things or her presence in the movie?

 

[Disney Irish]

and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke

Yeah that isn't even a thing, at least not at Disneyland. I was called Sir plenty of times by CMs just back in December when I went to Disneyland, and every other trip for the past decade+ that I can remember. So again something you've made up.

 

[Agent H]

It's used "wrong" by your definition because the word has evolved through common and mass usage in the past five years.

I fully understand that it meant something a bit different to the small sub-culture that invented the word 15 or so years ago. But now in 2025 the word "woke" has a specific meaning for people who had never heard of the word 8 years ago. The fact that an old guy in Utah (Utah, for Chrisssakes!) can use it in a sentence proves that it has evolved and morphed into something different as it entered American pop culture's lexicon and vocabulary.

Some of the stuff Disney and Pixar and Marvel were putting into their movies the past few years seemed woke and annoyed people, and the box office suffered because of that. That Disneyland and Disney World removed "Ladies and gentlemen" from their spiels and CM's can't call me "Sir" any more but instead pretend I'm their "Friend" is very woke, and very annoying to some longtime Disney fans.

"Woke" may have meant something in 2012, but now in 2025 it means something different.

Yes it has changed for better or for worse also what’s wrong with being called friend? You wouldn’t have a problem with it if one of the characters called you friend would you? Think about it from a story perspective Maybe you live on Main Street and you know that person personally in the story

 

[TP2000]

In what way did she take the spotlight from the primary characters ? Are you talking about googling things or her presence in the movie?

There's a thousand examples you could use. I pulled that one out of thin air, and within moments I was criticized for mentioning that it feels forced and unusual. Which proves my point exactly.

But when a background character feels or looks inorganic or unusual, it very rarely helps the story. It usually jars many in the audience just enough that they pause and reflect on it, instead of focusing on the real story and plotline they paid to see.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's a thousand examples you could use. I pulled that one out of thin air, and within moments I was criticized for mentioning that it feels forced and unusual. Which proves my point exactly.

But when a background character feels or looks inorganic or unusual, it very rarely helps the story. It usually jars many in the audience just enough that they pause and reflect on it, instead of focusing on the real story and plotline they paid to see.

Problem here is your example, at least in this one case, is completely made up by you as you admitted. So that is the only inorganic thing here. Time to quit while you're ahead on this one my friend.

 

[TP2000]

Yes it has changed for better or for worse also what’s wrong with being called friend? You wouldn’t have a problem with it if one of the characters called you friend would you?

When you go to Disneyland you are lucky to interact with maybe two or three speaking characters per visit, but you interact with dozens and dozens of CM's as they load boats, sell churros, ask how many, tell you to stay to your right, sell you a t-shirt, take your picture at the turnstile, etc.

Think about it from a story perspective Maybe you live on Main Street and you know that person personally in the story

I don't live on Main Street USA. I am a visitor at Disneyland. I don't know anyone who lives on Main Street USA, and when they sell me a Starbucks or a sweatshirt, they are not my "friend", they are sales staff serving me as a customer.

You actually believed Bob Chapek when he told us every CM in Star Wars Land was going to have their own backstory to pull us into their immersive world, didn't you?

 

[TP2000]

Problem here is your example, at least in this one case, is completely made up by you as you admitted. So that is the only inorganic thing here. Time to quit while you're ahead on this one my friend.

This isn't a race or a competition, it's a conversation. A discussion, if you will.

If you think it's organic for a kids hockey coach to be a Black Lesbian, then go for it and live your own adventure. But most folks would find that character casting to be jarring and incongruous to natural storytelling.

 

[Disney Irish]

This isn't a race or a competition, it's a conversation. A discussion, if you will.

If you think it's organic for a kids hockey coach to be a Black Lesbian, then go for it and live your own adventure. But most folks would find that character casting to be jarring and incongruous to natural storytelling.

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality. So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across in a discussion. Do better.

 

[Chi84]

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality. So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across. Do better.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think someone would make up something if they are “better than this?”

 

[TP2000]

Again please find for me that she is a lesbian. This is something you made up, its not reality.

There's nothing to "find" because I made up a fake Black Lesbian hockey coach, she doesn't exist in any Disney production. And that upsets you? Why?

So I request that you please stop with the misinformation as you've now been called out for it, and you admit you made it up. You're better than this, you don't need to make up false equivalency to get your point across in a discussion. Do better.

What if I had said the hockey coach was a Cambodian Paraplegic? Would that be better for a hockey story? Or worse?

It still proves my point exactly; if it seems weird to the audience, it's probably weird.