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Stevek

Well-Known Member
Aside from BT Trail those projects are minor (the MS bypass is a joke compared to the ones at DLP). What I'm talking about are major changes - a top to bottom redo of the Hub and leveling Tomorrowland and starting from scratch. 😉

I would level everything but SM. And recreate it with a toned down take on this. I always wondered if SM being in the poster was a hint of things to come.

1519930811721.png
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Tomorrowland should either take on a retro 1960's/70's sci fi look like 2001 A Space Odyssey and Space Mountain or they should go back to the out of this world ideas drawn up for Tomorrowland 2055 with that 80's/90's sci fi look full of aliens, robots, space travel, and fictional technology.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Tomorrowland should either take on a retro 1960's/70's sci fi look like 2001 A Space Odyssey and Space Mountain or they should go back to the out of this world ideas drawn up for Tomorrowland 2055 with that 80's/90's sci fi look full of aliens, robots, space travel, and fictional technology.
I'd rather see a new version of Epcot's Future World. Disneyland's Seabase Delta inside a volcano using the subs as preshow transport, updated Horizons, Armageddon preshow for Space Mountain, Tron coaster and a scary Alien Encounter dark ride to take over Buzz.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
When did the desire in themed entertainment move so far from wanting to see how things work behind the scenes to extreme escapism? I think escapism has always been the preference of most and the former was just a flash in the Pan.
When you think about it, most theme parks until very recently had valid educational components at the core of their themes. Epcot, animal kingdom, even studios parks. I think this all stems from Walt's tomorrowland and especially the attractions wed was busy with for the world's fair. Once they'd moved a bit from pure themed entertainment to edutainment/pedagogy and a more abstract art style, we got epcot. MGM Studios was clearly more light than epcot, but still about how something was made. Animal kingdom was a theme park, but one where guests could learn about animals. In many of these cases, I think immersion works better to grab an audience's attention, even from an educational standpoint, than a voiceover narration. The studio parks worked but were awkward and it seems to be the case that the move away from backlot show buildings is always preferable. Star Tours, for example, has a backlot set on its facade but without any explanation, you go inside and are immersed in the star wars universe and are to believe that it is real. I actually like the idea of a studio park, if the studio portion is very limited and immersion exists elsewhere. The existing front lot isn't the greatest at wdsp and i'm sure everyone would prefer a real hollywood or sunset boulevard past tower, over to the lagoon. But I can see the argument for just keeping it as is, as the front lot is about filmmaking, and it kind of represents the transcendent moment of getting lost in, and carried away, in the movies. You are in the real world, then the backlot, and then most of the park now will be fully immersive as if the imagination is spilling out of the backlot. This idea works better than being in an immersive theme park like dca in which one of the lands is a backlot, because as a destination, it is really boring. In wdsp's case, it is an oversized equivalent to the passage under the gray cement train tracks into town square on main street that separate the outside world from the park.

But the lines are really heavily blurred at disneyland, where the most heavy attraction in terms of projecting a worldview of globalization is disguised as a children's ride with dolls and an annoying song in fantasyland rather than in tomorrowland, where the same message would have felt really political and prescriptive. Mark Twain Riverboat has a voiceover narration that mimics history, but its artificial.
 
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GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
I would draw nothing from this towards DCA. Even HKDL is a poor indication. Now we know Mission breakout is not for WDSP, and WDW went a completely different direction. Iron Man gets two different attractions, no park has a Buzz to Antman conversion planned.

Very oddly it seems like Marvel attractions could actually remain wholly unique across the board. Is this actually a concerted effort? Could someone actually be advocating against clones? @GiveMeTheMusic

I don't have any inside info on this, but since Marvel has influence over these projects, it would make sense to me that they're pushing for diverse offerings. Fine by me.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
In my opinion The Tram tour at USH is not what it used to be. I think that’s due to the combination of what happens when a park holds onto the same old hokey effects/ sets and over utilizing screens. (Two different sides of the spectrum but both bad). How has Jaws not been upgraded? Then when the Bob Gurr King Kong died in the fire, instead of building a bigger and badder one, they went to screens. Don’t even get me started on the cheesiest thing I’ve ever experienced at a theme park (fast n furious) or the sad faded Grinch sets. Earthquake is the only thing that still kind of works (kind of) and just driving around the fake city set and the property in general. Oh ya flash flood too, if your sitting in the right spot. Anyway the whole thing is like one long Jungle Cruise that over stays it’s welcome. Except the Jungle Cruise is charming and the guests understand the humor.

Disney can get away with old things, because they were made right the first time and have withstood the test of time. And in other cases like Tiki Room and Lincoln they re kind of like sacred cows that are still charming in their own weird way. All of this and nostalgia with the park and IP of course.

I think the difference is that disneyland for the most part is made to feel dated. Its themed. So when an attraction from the 60s fades in storytelling style, it is more forgivable because the land is set in the 20s and everything just feels alien enough to blanket that kind of problem. Universal, and whenever disney does more flash bank contemporary kind of stuff, the payoff is huge and it makes the brand/ip feel relevant and exciting and up to date at the beginning, but after a while, the paint fades and the IP fades and in most cases you're left with nothing. Excitement is replaced by an awkward failure to achieve excitement. I think USH's Jurassic Park is still their best ride. The tram was great and I think it can age all it wants, except Fast and Furious is AWFUL and Kong was the worst use of 100 million dollars I could ever imagine.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I think the difference is that disneyland for the most part is made to feel dated. Its themed. So when an attraction from the 60s fades in storytelling style, it is more forgivable because the land is set in the 20s and everything just feels alien enough to blanket that kind of problem. Universal, and whenever disney does more flash bank contemporary kind of stuff, the payoff is huge and it makes the brand/ip feel relevant and exciting and up to date at the beginning, but after a while, the paint fades and the IP fades and in most cases you're left with nothing. Excitement is replaced by an awkward failure to achieve excitement. I think USH's Jurassic Park is still their best ride. The tram was great and I think it can age all it wants, except Fast and Furious is AWFUL and Kong was the worst use of 100 million dollars I could ever imagine.

I think you nailed it. Most of Disneyland can’t get old because they are going for “timeless” to begin with. Well...until recently with GOTG and Pixar Pier. I’ve been saying for a while that they view DCA as the studios park or IP dumping ground that allows them to compete with Universals new offerings while keeping Disneyland classic and timeless.

Jurassic Park is definitely USHs best ride. I enjoy Mummy for the physical thrills and I have to admit the first time I rode it it managed to startle/ scare me a couple times. Particularly the beginning where the mummy says something and you launch and when it went backwards (not sure I was expecting it the first time. Potter is cool but not great. Tram is cool like once every few years. That’s about it for me.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
lol. Main St works because Marceline is nowhere near southern California. It's also hardly what I would consider an attraction, and more of theming. But be honest, would you visit an entire theme park based around Marceline, MO? I don't think so. As for Africa...we might have differing opinions on what constitutes a "short plane ride". :)

I wouldn't mind an Everglades-themed attraction at WDW, but again, not an entire park. I guess its just different for me since I've lived in CA for almost 25 years. I know what it really has to offer, and its far greater than a theme-park's version (yes, even Disney). For the record, I have never once had the urge to visit DCA because I find myself drawn to its CA-theme in any way, shape, or form. I can understand how someone from out of state could, but its all lost on me.

It isn't at all about distance. It is moreso about delivering on an experience that is cherished by or resonates with a culture. There is no Main Street, USA at Shanghai Disneyland, but it's nowhere near Missouri. DCA and Disneyland don't need to be all that dissimilar, it was just poorly executed. Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Main Street all work in DCA and represent the same things; western expansion and the gold rush, the future of mankind, and the optimism of 19th century America. California history is American history. They just started out by building inferior versions of landmarks and a bunch of carnival rides instead of anything worth visiting. Golden Dreams, had it been a pirates style boat ride instead of a film, could have worked. All of the dramatic action scenes in that film would be exciting dark ride rooms a la the backlot tour at universal. California could resonate with california residents. After all, most of them came here or are descendents of those who came here to chase a dream, and dreams are seductive. Natural beauty and wealth, riches, innovations in aerospace and technology, storytelling, fame... Disneyland is a landmark that resonates all over the country and the globe but there is nothing more californian than that. DCA could literally be epcot, and it kind of takes on that role with the food and cultural festivals and that of the IP studio dumping ground, because California inserts itself so much in and plays such a large role in the global consciousness. Silicon valley shapes lives all over the world. People in neighborhoods in Mumbai surrounded by 2000 year old mosques have Iphones. Therefore any local issue native to california is likely representative of a global phenomenon, and the myths and challenges facing humanity therefore can be told through the lens of California.
 
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nevol

Well-Known Member
I wish they would have embraced California in theme park eyes, not travel agent eyes. You could have Bigfoot, the Wendigo, El Dorado, The Lost City of Mu, Zorro, Western River Expedition, a Hollywood where movie stars are plucked off the streets and colorful mobsters lurk in dark alleys.

If you want to see a somewhat decent version of California Adventure, look to Knotts Berry Farm. A Ghost Town celebrating the Gold Rush, a wilderness area where you can go on a rafting adventure to find Bigfoot or enter a mystic Native American lodge, a pierside park in the Roaring 20's featuring a trip back through time, airplane culture explored with the opportunity to parachute down into the park, a Mexican Mission-style village with a mysterious temple, and a lovely camp area for kids looking to explore.
yes!
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Really wish that rumored Captain America in old Hollywood coaster didn't fall by the wayside.
Can you share any more details about that concept? I knew a guy very heavily involved in that project and it was "on again" when we were in contact. I didn't pry, thinking I didn't need to, because he said they would build it and that "it was going to be a success."

While we're at it, does anybody know where it was mentioned that pandora had been considered for the subs lagoon area? It was about 100 pages back in the pixar pier thread maybe, but I can't find it.
 
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TROR

Well-Known Member
Just a few things relating to California history, mythos, legends, cultures, and geography that would work well in a theme park about California:

• Queen Califa's Island
• Native American California tribes
• Spanish missions
Mexican culture
-Dia De Los Muertos
Zorro
• Big foot
• Gold Rush
Grizzly bears
• Quails
• Poppy flowers
San Francisco
-Paris of the West with Jules Verne inspired technology
Los Angeles
• 1960's surf culture
• Ronald Reagan
Chinese culture
-Chinatown
Boardwalks and piers
• Alcatraz
Avocados
Vinyards
• Golden Age of Hollywood
-Movies and movie stars
-Haunted hotels
Lockheed/plane manufacturing
Route 66
1950's car culture
Deserts
Sierra Nevadas
• Colorado River
• The Ice Age

I'm sure there's more but this is off the top of my head. Anyways, clearly there's no shortage of potential subthemes of California that can inspire lands, attractions, restaurants, and shops in a theme park celebrating the state.

[Bold = Heavy presence at either Disneyland or DCA]
[Italics = Minimal or light presence at either Disneyland or DCA]
[Regular = No presence or once had presence but not anymore at either Disneyland or DCA]
 
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nevol

Well-Known Member
Just a few things relating to California history, mythos, legends, cultures, and geography that would work well in a theme park about California:

• Queen Califa's Island
• Native American California tribes
• Spanish missions
• Mexican culture
-Dia De Los Muertos
• Zorro
• Big foot
• Gold Rush
• Grizzly bears
• Quails
• Poppy flowers
• San Francisco
-Paris of the West with Jules Verne inspired technology
• Los Angeles
• 1960's surf culture
• Ronald Reagan
• Chinese culture
-Chinatown
• Boardwalks and piers
• Alcatraz
• Avocados
• Golden Age of Hollywood
• Lockheed/plane manufacturing
• Route 66
• 1950's car culture

I'm sure there's more but this is off the top of my head. Anyways, clearly there's no shortage of potential subthemes of California that can inspire lands, attractions, restaurants, and shops in a theme park celebrating the state.
• Marvel
• Pixar
;);););););)
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Just a few things relating to California history, mythos, legends, cultures, and geography that would work well in a theme park about California:

• Queen Califa's Island
• Native American California tribes
• Spanish missions
• Mexican culture
-Dia De Los Muertos
• Zorro
• Big foot
• Gold Rush
• Grizzly bears
• Quails
• Poppy flowers
• San Francisco
-Paris of the West with Jules Verne inspired technology
• Los Angeles
• 1960's surf culture
• Ronald Reagan
• Chinese culture
-Chinatown
• Boardwalks and piers
• Alcatraz
• Avocados
• Golden Age of Hollywood
-Movies and movie stars
-Haunted hotels
• Lockheed/plane manufacturing
• Route 66
• 1950's car culture
• Deserts
• Sierra Nevadas
• Colorado River
• The Ice Age

I'm sure there's more but this is off the top of my head. Anyways, clearly there's no shortage of potential subthemes of California that can inspire lands, attractions, restaurants, and shops in a theme park celebrating the state.
El dorado. basically, any mythology of natural beauty and earthly riches and striking gold become native to california because people bring those motivations here with them.
Imagination, creativity. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. individualism, self actualization. Think about how many of disney's animated ip are even based in california, making it so easy to implement, like inside out. Big hero 6 could work too.

But to get slightly back on track, what do I hope marvel is like at dca? Nothing like any of the marvel lands or attractions we've seen elsewhere. I want it to be a marvel universe, a city not unlike those in california, but one where the attractions and characters are successfully and believably embedded into that world so that they represent dramatic themes and lessons and act as metaphors for larger stories. Iron man makes a ton of sense in dca, as does black panther. A lot of these ip's do. The thing I can't stand and really hope we don't end up with is more of the same bland military base or convention center-looking show buildings. Dont fast forward from buena vista street to a hulking convention center. Show us the in-between. The world as it is, but slightly more saturated, slightly more fantastical, where instead of boeing/ratheon/northrop/space-x/jpl there is an office or a house belonging to tony stark, where instead of a small NGO working in poverty-stricken communities, we have black panther, etc. Because that's really what disneyland is... reality but heightened and curated to tell a story.
 
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DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Just a few things relating to California history, mythos, legends, cultures, and geography that would work well in a theme park about California:

• Queen Califa's Island
• Native American California tribes
• Spanish missions
• Mexican culture
-Dia De Los Muertos
• Zorro
• Big foot
• Gold Rush
• Grizzly bears
• Quails
• Poppy flowers
• San Francisco
-Paris of the West with Jules Verne inspired technology
• Los Angeles
• 1960's surf culture
• Ronald Reagan
• Chinese culture
-Chinatown
• Boardwalks and piers
• Alcatraz
• Avocados
• Golden Age of Hollywood
-Movies and movie stars
-Haunted hotels
• Lockheed/plane manufacturing
• Route 66
• 1950's car culture
• Deserts
• Sierra Nevadas
• Colorado River
• The Ice Age

I'm sure there's more but this is off the top of my head. Anyways, clearly there's no shortage of potential subthemes of California that can inspire lands, attractions, restaurants, and shops in a theme park celebrating the state.
It would be nice if you filtered out what already exists in California Adventure as well as Disneyland. Colorado River is an interesting choice. Many examples were at one time at DCA, but removed upon DCA 2.0. Plus, a park can’t be a boring history or geography lesson. They need to have actual attractions.
 
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TROR

Well-Known Member
It would be nice if you filtered out what already exists in California Adventure as well as Disneyland. Colorado River is an interesting choice. Many examples were at one time at DCA, but removed upon DCA 2.0. Plus, a park can’t be a boring history or geography lesson. They need to have actual attractions.
Made a key and everything just for you.
 

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