DCA Setting Records and WDW

[whylightbulb]

This is disheartening, but I have a few thoughts.

I work in a building with only 60 adults, and you would hear similar attitudes from a few of our people as well. Most of us, and most people I've worked with at different jobs, actually do care about people, product and have some pride. So am I surprised you heard that comment? Nope, not at all. I am not naive enough to believe that with 150,000 employees that some won't have these attitude. It's also been my experience that people who feel this way about their work, tend to be the loudmouths in the company. I don't believe the sky is falling or this is the prevailing sentiment. This attitude very rarely, if ever, represents the feelings of the majority.

Further, I feel that had you been working for or around WDI 20 years ago, you could have heard this. There have always been people who have no pride, passion or simply don't care at all places of employ. I doubt even all the Disney employees in the early days cared. After the strike of 1941, Walt was content that several hundred of those animators who didn't care were gone. Yep, always been people who try to dish out sub standard crap.

How does this affect me? well, some will argue that all the people with this poor attitude ensure that all we get at WDW is subpar; at least until there are changes in upper management. I disagree. On this point, there will be a very wide variety of opinions, but that's irrelevant. All that matters is, as spacemt354 noted, is the microexperience. My vacations at WDW involve experiencing the world from my point of view. I interact with CMs, eat at restaurants, partake in recreation, stay at resorts and visit parks. If what I experience is subpar imho, I'll talk to guest relations, write a letter, or simply vacation elsewhere. I've never had that experience yet. During my visit 3 months ago, doing parks daily and spending 9 nights on property, I saw about 5 minor things wrong and a million (slight hyperbole) that I was happy with. The executives you've overheard did not cause anything that I noticed. Perhaps they have little influence.

My response to this will probably come across as rude but I truly don't mean to be. From your post you come across as a genuine and intelligent person so please don't take this personally.

If you experienced a vacuous, cheap ride called Journey Into Your Imagination instead of a wonderous, imaginative ride-through attraction that inspired you and made you want to ride again than you were affected by these executives. If you rode through a warehouse with extremely minimal themeing instead of a fully themed thrill adventure that left you in awe after disembarking (or at least left an impression similar to this rides' cousins, Journey to the Center Of The Earth and Radiator Springs Racers) than you were affected by the mediocrity mentality so prevalent in upper management today. If you heard Albert Brooks shout, "Nemo Nemo...where are you" a million times with cheap tapestry and bare mimimal scenery than you have been affected again. If you boarded a gravitron in a pavillion that is one step above a carnival in yet another simulator, this time via a storyline about riding a simulator, than you have been affected yet again. If you climbed aboard a "Time Rover" through very dark scenes that had to be dark to hide the fact that there is very little to see than...well you know. What about Philarmagic - the 4D show that takes 10 steps back from MuppetVision and Bug having about 10% of the immersive effects and is basically a Disney movie commercial? Unimaginative merchandise? Lower and lower quality food choices but higher prices...all this comes to you courtesy of those same idiots.

Of course I could go on and on (as I've done in previous posts) but you get the idea. Have you been to Tokyo? Those executives get it. It seems Anaheim is starting to get it again.

Back when Eisner was putting his cronies in positions of power we saw the writing on the wall but didn't know just how bad it would get. The most disheartening thing though is that through their marketing savvy they are able to convince many that this is the best they can give us. The bottom line is I still have yet to meet anyone that has been to Tokyo that feels the way you do. Until you have something to compare the WDW of today, either WDW pre-1996 or Tokyo, you will continue to put up with whatever they tell you is magical.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

The bottom line is I still have yet to meet anyone that has been to Tokyo that feels the way you do. Until you have something to compare the WDW of today, either WDW pre-1996 or Tokyo, you will continue to put up with whatever they tell you is magical.

So very, very true. Tokyo blew my mind. So much so that I shelled out nearly $400+ to OLC (as a poor college student on study abroad) just to experience it multiple times.

As a CM, I count myself lucky how often I am able to visit the parks. But if I ever had to pay to enter again post-Tokyo Disneyland visit...you can bet in the current state of WDW I'd be demanding a full refund.

 

[WDW1974]

How does this affect me? well, some will argue that all the people with this poor attitude ensure that all we get at WDW is subpar; at least until there are changes in upper management. I disagree. On this point, there will be a very wide variety of opinions, but that's irrelevant. All that matters is, as spacemt354 noted, is the microexperience. My vacations at WDW involve experiencing the world from my point of view. I interact with CMs, eat at restaurants, partake in recreation, stay at resorts and visit parks. If what I experience is subpar imho, I'll talk to guest relations, write a letter, or simply vacation elsewhere. I've never had that experience yet. During my visit 3 months ago, doing parks daily and spending 9 nights on property, I saw about 5 minor things wrong and a million (slight hyperbole) that I was happy with. The executives you've overheard did not cause anything that I noticed. Perhaps they have little influence.

This may come out as harsh ... so let me temper it ... OK, I think I did. I also think that it's great that you enjoyed your vacation. I wouldn't want anyone to go spend nine nights at WDW (likely all meals too? did you ever leave?) and not enjoy the stay because you clearly spent thousands of dollars, likely many thousands. ... But I also wonder, having read your posts here, if you simply see nothing wrong because you (on some level, either conscious or not) choose not to. Many folks do likewise. They are in their happy place, the place they rave about to family and friends (who often don't get why anyone would go at all, let alone go repeatedly), the place they have pics on their desk at work and around their home ... and they simply are not going to let anything bad enter the perfect world they've conjured up.

I hope that wasn't (too) condescending ... but I've been with people like that ... I remember talking about all the rotting wood on Main Street with a friend from New Jersey and she didn't see any of it, until I literally took her door to door from the Confectionary down to Center Street. It was like she was waking up from a childhood dream and she didn't want to see reality.

 

[rioriz]

This may come out as harsh ... so let me temper it ... OK, I think I did. I also think that it's great that you enjoyed your vacation. I wouldn't want anyone to go spend nine nights at WDW (likely all meals too? did you ever leave?) and not enjoy the stay because you clearly spent thousands of dollars, likely many thousands. ... But I also wonder, having read your posts here, if you simply see nothing wrong because you (on some level, either conscious or not) choose not to. Many folks do likewise. They are in their happy place, the place they rave about to family and friends (who often don't get why anyone would go at all, let alone go repeatedly), the place they have pics on their desk at work and around their home ... and they simply are not going to let anything bad enter the perfect world they've conjured up.

I hope that wasn't (too) condescending ... but I've been with people like that ... I remember talking about all the rotting wood on Main Street with a friend from New Jersey and she didn't see any of it, until I literally took her door to door from the Confectionary down to Center Street. It was like she was waking up from a childhood dream and she didn't want to see reality.

I think you hit it on the nail and to be honest, maybe the rose colored glasses are OK...Some people need to believe in something, to have those "childhood dreams" as a comfort to them. In that sense I see it as none of our business to "wake" them up from it to prove a point that we feel should be made.

If people visit the parks, spend lots of money, and can really find a relaxation and enjoyment in only seeing the forrest and not the individual tress...then I say let them..

I admit I see the forrest many times but I know the individual trees are there and acknowledge them when it ruins my personal perspective. Having worked there and visited over 100 times I am fortunate to know the quaint, more relaxing parts of the parks & resorts (love canoe in FW) that normal park goers often don't. Those places are what I think of when I think WDW Resort...and when I make vacation planning iteneraries for friends I always encourage them to do more than indulge in half working rides and explore the resort as a whole. They always come back pleased and excited and full of pixie dust..lol If I wanted, I guess I could point out all the poorer areas of the parks and resorts if I wanted to give the a "real" perspective of today's parks but in the end what would that prove or gain?

 

[yeti]

This may come out as harsh ... so let me temper it ... OK, I think I did. I also think that it's great that you enjoyed your vacation. I wouldn't want anyone to go spend nine nights at WDW (likely all meals too? did you ever leave?) and not enjoy the stay because you clearly spent thousands of dollars, likely many thousands. ... But I also wonder, having read your posts here, if you simply see nothing wrong because you (on some level, either conscious or not) choose not to. Many folks do likewise. They are in their happy place, the place they rave about to family and friends (who often don't get why anyone would go at all, let alone go repeatedly), the place they have pics on their desk at work and around their home ... and they simply are not going to let anything bad enter the perfect world they've conjured up.

I hope that wasn't (too) condescending ... but I've been with people like that ... I remember talking about all the rotting wood on Main Street with a friend from New Jersey and she didn't see any of it, until I literally took her door to door from the Confectionary down to Center Street. It was like she was waking up from a childhood dream and she didn't want to see reality.

Ahhh yes. Get this a lot. I've labelled it as "remember sammy jankis" syndrome.

 

[nor'easter]

Oohh, yeti, your enigmatic references might go over many heads, but I like them.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

The bottom line is I still have yet to meet anyone that has been to Tokyo that feels the way you do. Until you have something to compare the WDW of today, either WDW pre-1996 or Tokyo, you will continue to put up with whatever they tell you is magical.

THIS! I was completely set on going to WDW but after a setback I had to change course to a different destination and chose Tokyo. Obviously I wasn't about to skip out on TDR and ever since I've been back I can't help feel like the so-called "doom and gloomer" as some people like to call it. There's just no way to go in and experience such a rare, classy, high-quality product and not be affected in your expectations because of it. It seems, from the reviews, DLR is meeting those expectations on most fronts (if not all) whereas WDW is bordering the embarrassing for anyone that knows better.

 

[EpcotServo]

It's been a long time, but I should just add that there has to be a middle ground between spending thousands of dollars on rose colored glasses, and literally crushing someone's magic by pointing out wood-rot.

 

[disneyrcks]

This may come out as harsh ... so let me temper it ... OK, I think I did. I also think that it's great that you enjoyed your vacation. I wouldn't want anyone to go spend nine nights at WDW (likely all meals too? did you ever leave?) and not enjoy the stay because you clearly spent thousands of dollars, likely many thousands. ... But I also wonder, having read your posts here, if you simply see nothing wrong because you (on some level, either conscious or not) choose not to. Many folks do likewise. They are in their happy place, the place they rave about to family and friends (who often don't get why anyone would go at all, let alone go repeatedly), the place they have pics on their desk at work and around their home ... and they simply are not going to let anything bad enter the perfect world they've conjured up.

I hope that wasn't (too) condescending ... but I've been with people like that ... I remember talking about all the rotting wood on Main Street with a friend from New Jersey and she didn't see any of it, until I literally took her door to door from the Confectionary down to Center Street. It was like she was waking up from a childhood dream and she didn't want to see reality.

This is interesting to me because my husband, who loves Disney, just recently said to me he noticed a decline. My family lives in East Orlando, so we come down about every 3-4 months. We always head to Disney for some "magic time". However, I was recently discussing with him the "word" on this board (he is not one to partake on internet discussion forums). He said to me "Of course things are differnet and not for the good, Disney used to do things better" but he still enjoys his time there and is not ready to stop going. He never complains.

I guess I would call us "in-betweens" we love Disney(but I just spent 12 days in FL without going to Disney, and I had a beautiful time) however, we can notice the things that are not up to par. I do not think we are doom and gloomers, nor pixie dusters. Is there room for an "in between"? And if there is, how do we incorporate them into the discussions? It always seems there is an us vs. them mentality on these boards.

 

[marni1971]

Many of us are inbetweeners.

We hate the management direction of profit over product. We laugh at recent refurbs. We know they can do better on all fronts.

But we kick up a fuss because we love the place. The rides. The sense of being there. The emotion. With a passion. And that's why we still go back. But we complain since our beloved is being mistreated.

And we shout when something is done right. Haunted Mansion and HoP refurbs I'm looking at you. These and RSR are examples they can still do it.

 

[Tom]

Many of us are inbetweeners.

We hate the management direction of profit over product. We laugh at recent refurbs. We know they can do better on all fronts.

But we kick up a fuss because we love the place. The rides. The sense of being there. The emotion. With a passion. And that's why we still go back. But we complain since our beloved is being mistreated.

And we shout when something is done right. Haunted Mansion and HoP refurbs I'm looking at you. These and RSR are examples they can still do it.

I concur, and put myself in this group.

We've seen that WDI can produce what we've come to expect from them....but getting them to do it consistently (or at all, these days, in WDW) is what I long for.

 

[Lee]

I concur, and put myself in this group.

We've seen that WDI can produce what we've come to expect from them....but getting them to do it consistently (or at all, these days, in WDW) is what I long for.

Agreed, but when referring to WDI, I would change " getting them to it consistently" to "allowing them to do it consistently".

Honestly, most folks that get labeled "doom and gloom" are actually "inbetweeners".

 

[Jim Handy]

Many of us are inbetweeners.

We hate the management direction of profit over product. We laugh at recent refurbs. We know they can do better on all fronts.

But we kick up a fuss because we love the place. The rides. The sense of being there. The emotion. With a passion. And that's why we still go back. But we complain since our beloved is being mistreated.

And we shout when something is done right. Haunted Mansion and HoP refurbs I'm looking at you. These and RSR are examples they can still do it.

This.

It's not that we hate WDW, we actually love WDW. And that's why we are frustrated.

 

[El Grupo]

Understanding the decline that has happened at WDW since the 90s, I hold Burbank more responsible than TDO. They apparently reward and encourage the emphasis on profits, and they are either satisfied with or are dictating the direction being taken with the Florida properties. Otherwise, changes would be made to improve the situation.

 

[Tom]

Agreed, but when referring to WDI, I would change " getting them to it consistently" to "allowing them to do it consistently".

Honestly, most folks that get labeled "doom and gloom" are actually "inbetweeners".

I accept your correction WDI would design and build ANYTHING if they were allowed to, by way of funding.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Agreed, but when referring to WDI, I would change " getting them to it consistently" to "allowing them to do it consistently."

I know one of WDI's biggest problems, as an organization, is its "Staff up, staff down" hiring practice where there really is no long term development and nurturing of talent. Just based off what I've read here and on Glassdoor, as an outsider it appears that this practice has really harmed Imagineering's culture because it's made politicking more important that talent and other vital qualities, pits imagineers against each other for their jobs, etc.. I know a lot of folks will read what you wrote only as,"more high quality attractions," which it will indeed lead to. However, do you see this shift radically changing WED(oops, WDI) for the better in terms of its culture?

 

[Tom]

I know one of WDI's biggest problems, as an organization, is its "Staff up, staff down" hiring practice where there really is no long term development and nurturing of talent. Just based off what I've read here and on Glassdoor, as an outsider it appears that this practice has really harmed Imagineering's culture because it's made politicking more important that talent and other vital qualities, pits imagineers against each other for their jobs, etc.. I know a lot of folks will read what you wrote only as,"more high quality attractions," which it will indeed lead to. However, do you see this shift radically changing WED(oops, WDI) for the better in terms of its culture?

You make a good point. It's hard to get someone to really invest themself if they know they're going to be laid off as soon as their project is done. So, they either drag out design forever....possibly make mistakes so construction takes longer. Not saying it happens at WDI, but it does happen in the real world. It's part of the reason many construction projects take longer than they should....especially if there are a lot of union trades, and there isn't any work on the horizon. They know that as soon as they get their work done, they're going back to the bench. No incentive to work harder.

 

[Lee]

The current culture and business models at WDI are a problem.
It makes costs go up, creates unnecessary inside competition and "politics", and leads to a product that is generally inferior to that which was produced in years past.

I don't know an easy fix, but I sincerely believe that something will have to change sooner rather than later. Perhaps the Uni model is the best way to go. Sure seems that way.

 

[Tom]

The current culture and business models at WDI are a problem.
It makes costs go up, creates unnecessary inside competition and "politics", and leads to a product that is generally inferior to that which was produced in years past.

I don't know an easy fix, but I sincerely believe that something will have to change sooner rather than later. Perhaps the Uni model is the best way to go. Sure seems that way.

What is Uni's model, exactly? Do they keep a core group of talent on payroll, then outsource the detailing and drafting so that they don't have to carry entire teams all the time?

 

[choco choco]

The current culture and business models at WDI are a problem.
It makes costs go up, creates unnecessary inside competition and "politics", and leads to a product that is generally inferior to that which was produced in years past.

I don't know an easy fix, but I sincerely believe that something will have to change sooner rather than later. Perhaps the Uni model is the best way to go. Sure seems that way.

How many people in WDI are still the creative people (illustrators, animators, artists, scientists, engineers, architects....) that are actually contributing things to the "show," and how many are just bureaucratic people (business men, lawyers, human resources, "managers") that are not really responsible for the product?