DCA Setting Records and WDW

[COProgressFan]

Many of us are inbetweeners.

We hate the management direction of profit over product. We laugh at recent refurbs. We know they can do better on all fronts.

But we kick up a fuss because we love the place. The rides. The sense of being there. The emotion. With a passion. And that's why we still go back. But we complain since our beloved is being mistreated.

And we shout when something is done right. Haunted Mansion and HoP refurbs I'm looking at you. These and RSR are examples they can still do it.

Great post, marni. This I think summarizes the case for so many of us, both in online forums and the real world. It's sad to see something that used to be so wonderful gradually slip away into mediocrity (or worse).

We are not all doom and gloom all the time. We are realists, seeing this for what they are, hoping things can change for the better, not just to please fan-boys or online poster, but every guest who visits WDW...

 

[Fe Maiden]

It's been a long time, but I should just add that there has to be a middle ground between spending thousands of dollars on rose colored glasses, and literally crushing someone's magic by pointing out wood-rot.

The sad truth is WDW is getting to the point where you don't need anyone to point it out for you.

My mom came with us last year. She's been going since the early 70's but now goes every 5 years or so. No one can walk through the parks hopped up on more pixiedust than a grandmother spending a week in WDW with her grandkids. And yet midway through our vacation she mentioned to me that in all her years visiting WDW it was the first time she'd been disappointed in what she'd seen.

The catalyst was a boat ride back to the WL from CR. We had a nice lunch at the Wave and afterwards she decided to head back to the WL instead of walking back to the MK with us. Apparently she struck up a conversation with the CM at the dock. At some point I guess he felt comfortable enough that he asked her to stand off of the dock explaining that it was in such poor shape he was afraid that eventually it might collapse.

After she told me this (which was bad enough) she then goes on to mention how awful Splash looked. I thought the same thing too, it was one of the few times I was embarassed at the state of an attraction. But it was only after watching our vacation videos with my daughter a few weeks ago that it hit me how even the rosiest of glasses aren't hiding what's going on.

I recorded our first ride on Splash, I was in the front with my oldest son and my mom was directly behind us with my other son. It was the first day of vacation, one of the first rides we went on and from her reaction on the video she was having the time of her life and she truly was. But watching that video, never in a million years would you have said that same person was making mental notes on the dreadful condition of Splash. If you can't even fool a grandmother only a few hours into a vacation with her grandskids you've got problems.

It's clear their business plan is to do the bare minimum, hope the long-time guest will be satisfied living off wonderful memories, and bring in enough new guests each year to make up for any veteran who has given up and headed to DL, DCL, or something non-Disney altogether.

I think we're at the point where we get to sit back and see how long it takes for them to realize what a cluster-%@#$ they've created and have to dump $2 billion into fixing the situation.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

So what is it going to take to reverse the trend the "decline" at WDW. I am a casual park visitor. I do not notice light bulbs out or a streamlined menus. Less fireworks, non working effects and homogenized merchandise. I did notice chipped paint on a hand rail in a line, that is no a big deal. Only via this board from insiders and longtime park visitors that I know there was a difference. A difference from today's product versus yesterday's. Also the help of Martin videos instead of enjoying Dinosaur (fully). I was thinking off all the turned off effects and how awesome this ride was at first open.

WDW is seen and sold as a world destination. So people will always come even just for one visit that may be a once in a lifetime visit.

Do locals have the power? Stop buying AP's. With a decline in those will that be a red flag that something is wrong? Like another poster said WDW is turned into a real estate development. Who cares about AP's or small dips in attendance when you are selling timeshares fast as you can build them? Bay Lake Tower 2.0 anyone? How long will the garden wing remain available for the peasants and fishmongers who stay there?

Is the new Fantasyland Expansion a jumping off point or just a stop gap measure to add to the next Lightship video?

The new menu at Be Our Guest Restaurant a good sign or will Gaston's Tavern be a better bell weather?

Is the unique merchandise of Radiator Springs and good sign that the winds of change a blowing? How will that bode for FLE?

Is current management to blame for the park stagnation or the world economy? What company did not cut back to help the bottom line and long term goals of the company?

I am optimistic that the Radiator Springs and FLE success will help justify all the little things that are changing for the better at WDW. I fear that it will just be used as another good reason to buy into DVC.

I hope for a spirited change.

 

[WDW1974]

This.

It's not that we hate WDW, we actually love WDW. And that's why we are frustrated.

No, THIS!

 

[WDW1974]

The current culture and business models at WDI are a problem.
It makes costs go up, creates unnecessary inside competition and "politics", and leads to a product that is generally inferior to that which was produced in years past.

I don't know an easy fix, but I sincerely believe that something will have to change sooner rather than later. Perhaps the Uni model is the best way to go. Sure seems that way.

Don't know if it has to be the UNI model ... maybe the Pixar model. Quality people doing quality work at fair prices that brings in huge amounts of profit, critical acclaim and product that can be leveraged across many platforms/business units.

WDI was working just fine into the 90s ... and they went in with MBAs, strategic planners and consultants and broke things. Talent left or was marginalized and folks with very little ability were pushed ahead of veterans and allowed to sell management on their ideas/concepts.

But you have to have management that wants to put out quality. Sure, they did when it came to BVS and CL ... but did they feel that way about Stitch's Great Belching Contest ... or Journey Into WDI's Imagination (yeah, sure are a lot of Apple products and fanbois in here) ... or Mission Space: Will You Be One of The 112 People a Day Who Gets Very Ill After Riding? ... or Chester and Hester's Primeval Whirl and Kissimmee Sub Shop and Pool Cleaners?

 

[janoimagine]

I know one of WDI's biggest problems, as an organization, is its "Staff up, staff down" hiring practice where there really is no long term development and nurturing of talent. Just based off what I've read here and on Glassdoor, as an outsider it appears that this practice has really harmed Imagineering's culture because it's made politicking more important that talent and other vital qualities, pits imagineers against each other for their jobs, etc..

The really sad thing is this is true of any creative enviroment today. Espically the ad industry, and I imagine WDI is no different. It was'nt always like that, when I started, I had a couple of the Senior AD's and ACD's show me the ropes and help me refine my concepts, now a Jr. AD can't show a concept to a Senior level creative without fear of them stealing the idea and useing it for their own. Politics and Backstabbing rule the business and unfortunately it is no longer how talented you are but rather how well you can run the gauntlet of corporate bueracracy. Don't even get me started on miniature clients ... oh I mean account executives.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Don't know if it has to be the UNI model ... maybe the Pixar model. Quality people doing quality work at fair prices that brings in huge amounts of profit, critical acclaim and product that can be leveraged across many platforms/business units.

WDI was working just fine into the 90s ... and they went in with MBAs, strategic planners and consultants and broke things. Talent left or was marginalized and folks with very little ability were pushed ahead of veterans and allowed to sell management on their ideas/concepts.

But you have to have management that wants to put out quality. Sure, they did when it came to BVS and CL ... but did they feel that way about Stitch's Great Belching Contest ... or Journey Into WDI's Imagination (yeah, sure are a lot of Apple products and fanbois in here) ... or Mission Space: Will You Be One of The 112 People a Day Who Gets Very Ill After Riding? ... or Chester and Hester's Primeval Whirl and Kissimmee Sub Shop and Pool Cleaners?

So who is there within TWDC that can ascend to fix this...change the culture? I've read in other threads that some people believe in the next 24-36 months there will be changes...Iger, Rasolo, Crofton, etc. Those of you 'in the know'...is there a person or people that staff would love to see take over?

Btw, didn't people celebrate somewhat on here when Iger took over?

 

[janoimagine]

WDI was working just fine into the 90s ... and they went in with MBAs, strategic planners and consultants and broke things.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, will destroy creative vision and freedom faster than strategic planning and cost consultants, they have the destructive force of a hurricane.

 

[HenryMystic]

So who is there within TWDC that can ascend to fix this...change the culture? I've read in other threads that some people believe in the next 24-36 months there will be changes...Iger, Rasolo, Crofton, etc. Those of you 'in the know'...is there a person or people that staff would love to see take over?

Btw, didn't people celebrate somewhat on here when Iger took over?

They need someone from the outside to come in and clean house.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Btw, didn't people celebrate somewhat on here when Iger took over?

I did but after the debacle that was Eisner's final few years as CEO I'd have accepted almost anyone as his successor. But to me, Iger lacks any kind of creative vision, something I think Eisner did have, and I won't be too sorry to see him go in a couple of years; he hasn't done a bad job but I think it's approaching the point where Disney needs a fresh impetus at the head of the company.

 

[yeti]

Oohh, yeti, your enigmatic references might go over many heads, but I like them.

Haha right. Yours included.

 

[kaelynj1s]

Sometimes it is so hard to keep up with yall on these threads but i really do enjoy reading them! But just so I know I'm on the right track here, these are the things I have come to understand..
Iger NEEDS to go
WDI isn't getting the funding they need to build that e-ticket attraction everyone wants
TDO continues to ignore/neglect what needs to be addressed as far as fixing/refurbishing/restoring/expanding
to bring WDW up to it's full potential. ( By expanding, I mean addressing DHS and DAK)
WDI can do way better than build a second dumbo and a children's splash around play area.
And DCA gets this super awesome cool 1.1b makeover.

Is that somewhere in the ballpark?
I think Disney is spending lots of money way too fast. You have 2 new cruise ships, DVC expansions, FLE, DCA makeover, Auluani, and Disneyland Shanghai.

 

[Mike K]

Sorry to interject in the current discussion but I just wanted to update everyone on my arrival at Disneyland today. I managed to pack a fair amount of stuff in on my first day including Indiana Jones Adventures which was an absolute blast! You guys weren't kidding about that one, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, It's a Small World, Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin which I enjoyed quite a lot being a huge Roger Rabbit fan, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The Jungle Cruise, Tarzan's Treehouse and The Haunted Mansion. Before entering the park, I upgraded to the Premier Passport and after a few computer glitches and a fair amount of time waiting to receive it, The CM was kind enough to give me two passes to Disneyland and California Adventure to ride any ride immediately with the exception of the Matterhorn and anything in Carsland. I ended up using my Disneyland pass on Indiana Jones which was well worth it and after finally making my way over to California Adventure I used the other pass at Tower of Terror which is just as good as its Orlando counterpart. Buena Vista Street is unbelievably gorgeous, Disney really outdid themselves with it. By this time it was nearing 9PM so I headed straight to Carsland to see it in all it's neon lit beauty. I chose to not ride anything there tonight since Radiator Springs Racers was down anyways and I just wanted to explore all the shops and what not. Carsland is a marvel to witness, this is an expansion not only done well but how all expansions should be done. It's simply breathtaking. Tomorrow, I'll most likely sleep in a little bit and when I awake I figure I'll chip away some more at Disneyland since I'm assuming a Friday at Carsland is going to be pretty nuts. Perhaps, later in the day, I'll take a stroll into A Bug's Land since walking through it tonight seemed less than lively and that's a land I'd much rather enjoy during the daytime to appreciate its surroundings. I'll keep you guys posted as my 10 day journey continues. Stay tuned!

 

[Longhairbear]

Sorry to interject in the current discussion but I just wanted to update everyone on my arrival at Disneyland today. I managed to pack a fair amount of stuff in on my first day including Indiana Jones Adventures which was an absolute blast! You guys weren't kidding about that one, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, It's a Small World, Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin which I enjoyed quite a lot being a huge Roger Rabbit fan, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The Jungle Cruise, Tarzan's Treehouse and The Haunted Mansion. Before entering the park, I upgraded to the Premier Passport and after a few computer glitches and a fair amount of time waiting to receive it, The CM was kind enough to give me two passes to Disneyland and California Adventure to ride any ride immediately with the exception of the Matterhorn and anything in Carsland. I ended up using my Disneyland pass on Indiana Jones which was well worth it and after finally making my way over to California Adventure I used the other pass at Tower of Terror which is just as good as its Orlando counterpart. Buena Vista Street is unbelievably gorgeous, Disney really outdid themselves with it. By this time it was nearing 9PM so I headed straight to Carsland to see it in all it's neon lit beauty. I chose to not ride anything there tonight since Radiator Springs Racers was down anyways and I just wanted to explore all the shops and what not. Carsland is a marvel to witness, this is an expansion not only done well but how all expansions should be done. It's simply breathtaking. Tomorrow, I'll most likely sleep in a little bit and when I awake I figure I'll chip away some more at Disneyland since I'm assuming a Friday at Carsland is going to be pretty nuts. Perhaps, later in the day, I'll take a stroll into A Bug's Land since walking through it tonight seemed less than lively and that's a land I'd much rather enjoy during the daytime to appreciate its surroundings. I'll keep you guys posted as my 10 day journey continues. Stay tuned!

We are going next week.
While in Bug's Land, look for the 4 leaf clover, there is only one.

 

[Longhairbear]

While I'm at it, did you hear the audio of the child trapped behind the wall at the chalk drawing on the second floor of the queue at TOT? The Eeyore parking lot sign in the projection room queue at Indiana. Did you pull on the ropes to make the ceiling fall in the queue? Before the end of Pooh look up to see the remnants of Country Bears overhead, right after effulumpinhuzel. The three heads. Touch the golden apple at Snow White's queue. Touch the page of the book at the end of the walk through Sleeping Beauty walk through at the castle. Throw a coin into the Wishing Well beside the castle to hear Snow sing. Check out the fireworks factory at ToonTown.
Try to open the door. And be sure to see Alladin at the Hyperion in DCA.
And you have to finish each day at Trader Sam's by the pool at the Disneyland Hotel. It's the Tiki Room, and Jungle Cruise finish to a great day.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Riding past Video Screens?

It does seem ridiculously simple but based on the reaction I've seen, the Seas with Nemo & Friends has great appeal to small children. My teenagers think it's hokey and so we've only riden it twice. And you better have already seen the movie; it's nearly impossible to understand the plot from the ride.

 

[marni1971]

Tower of Terror which is just as good as its Orlando counterpart.

Gasp!

 

[dreamscometrue]

This may come out as harsh ... so let me temper it ... OK, I think I did. I also think that it's great that you enjoyed your vacation. I wouldn't want anyone to go spend nine nights at WDW (likely all meals too? did you ever leave?) and not enjoy the stay because you clearly spent thousands of dollars, likely many thousands. ... But I also wonder, having read your posts here, if you simply see nothing wrong because you (on some level, either conscious or not) choose not to. Many folks do likewise. They are in their happy place, the place they rave about to family and friends (who often don't get why anyone would go at all, let alone go repeatedly), the place they have pics on their desk at work and around their home ... and they simply are not going to let anything bad enter the perfect world they've conjured up.

I hope that wasn't (too) condescending ... but I've been with people like that ... I remember talking about all the rotting wood on Main Street with a friend from New Jersey and she didn't see any of it, until I literally took her door to door from the Confectionary down to Center Street. It was like she was waking up from a childhood dream and she didn't want to see reality.

No, I didn't find that too condescending at all. I expected much moreso.

I know we had a discussion on a thread months ago about what people observe and why they do so, but I don't think that's something we will agree on, or ever completely understand. I'm convinced that you, Lee, Martin and some others are in the 99.9th percentile of the 'finding stuff wrong by guests' group, because of your experiences and familiarity with WDW over many years. It is a complete impossibility for the vast majority of WDW guests, including me, to see WDW through your eyes. Yes, there is a small percentage of people who probably see more issues than you do, and 99.8% of the guests who see fewer issues. It is a continuum. If you see it declining by degrees, it is. Here's the thing though. With respect to all the people who see problems, that is irrelevant in my world. If I need a tour guide (as you were with your friend from NJ) to see problems, then they are likely not that obvious.

(I’m putting these next paragraphs in my reply to you, but I know a few others have made similar suggestions. Not picking on you; this just seemed like a nice place to insert it.)

The idea that there is some sort of repression, nostalgia factor or something of the sort that is preventing many of us from seeing the issues some of you see, is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on these boards. So silly in fact, that I can’t believe that you (and others) really believe it. You seem to be intelligent. It must be just to get a reaction. It must be.

I don't believe that my brain is conspiring against me so that I don't see issues; I'm just not hypersensitive to them. It is 100% a condition of familiarity. I’m not sure how many times you’re been to the parks, but you notice what you notice because of all your visits...period. One person posted that they were a CM and visited at least 100 times. Man, if that person doesn’t see the world differently than practically all guests, something is amiss. I guarantee that were I to take you around my place of work, you'd find practically nothing wrong with the physical space...even if you were looking. There's (likely) nothing wrong with your brain...I doubt it's going "lalalalalalalala; I see nothing". I, however, have worked there for years. I can show you issues so glaring you'll wonder how you missed them, and others that I notice because of how things used to be. In this case, as with mine when visiting WDW, ignorance is the culprit. Ignorance is, however, bliss.



I have one question for you as well ’74. If every single WDW visit in your life had been a DL/DCA visit, do you think that all your posts/threads would have discussed the same issues, only with DL/DCA inserted instead of WDW? (Obviously not lately with a billion dollar fix, but had you been able to post for the past 15 years.)

 

[kaelynj1s]

Ill be honest, when I go to the parks, its once in a blue moon. Although, I would like it to be more frequently. When we go, our trips are only for two or three days at a time so we try to jam as much as we possibly can in that time. When we went in 2010, that was my husbands very first trip to WDW. He wanted to see everything! So, we jammed MK, DAK, and Epcot, in the 2 days we were there. In our most recent trip, in March, we only had one day so we did MK and DHS. What I'm getting at is I don't see any of the issues yall see for 1) I dont visit that often and 2) I'm running around trying to fit mostly everything in what little time we have. But next time, when we go this September (2 trips in one year woo!) I think I will be more aware of the issues yall talk about. I really do want to see what yall see even though it may not be likely.

 

[spacemt354]

The idea that there is some sort of repression, nostalgia factor or something of the sort that is preventing many of us from seeing the issues some of you see, is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on these boards. So silly in fact, that I can’t believe that you (and others) really believe it. You seem to be intelligent. It must be just to get a reaction. It must be.

I agree with everything you had said, and especially this part. This was the one part of the argument that I thought made absolutely no sense. Everyone, even the people who like to point out the issues with wdw, have said they enjoy the past (pre-95) at the world. So how is one group not affected by nostaglia and the other completely blinded by it? We are not blinded by it. We just feel it's better to spend our vacations enjoying the parks and resorts, rather than giving tours pointing out how wood is eroding on main street. I don't find that an enjoyable way to spend my time at disney. It's not that I'm blinded by nostaglia, it's that I just don't care enough to waste my time looking at a piece of wood chipping, especially if I have to be shown where it is. And that isn't just restricted to disney world, because when I go other places as well I really don't care about the one tree in the big forest. Now, if 74 and others want to point out the flaws, I can't say they are wrong for doing that. But I can say it just isn't that important to us. It has nothing to do with nostaglia. It's just the realization that wood naturally chips, so those little errors are not going to spoil the big picture vacation for us.