DCA Setting Records and WDW

[TP2000]

Yes, FLE is very nice and a welcome addition. However, it's one born out of nessecity to increase the popular parks capacity, generate more income, and repurpose and replace life-expired facilities. Not to mention reclaim (finally) the lost ground from 20k. It adds 2 D tickets, an expensive restaurant and a replacement kiddy area but also looses a popular attraction and replaces life expired buildings. I'm sure I'll enjoy Mermaid and Mine Coaster, but not as much as had they properly rebuilt Space Mountain as originally planned or built the TRON family E Ride behind Buzz.

I always enjoy your insight! Thanks for the reality check, yet again.

And for those keeping score at home.... Disney California Adventure just broke an attendance record again, this time on Tuesday, two days after the records fell the first time over the weekend.

According to Al Lutz and the Orange County Register newspaper, on Tuesday they had 53,000 people at DCA and 47,000 people at Disneyland. That's 100K combined, and a new record for DCA. DCA is now pulling in bigger numbers than Disneyland. My question is... does this mean the new E Ticket for Disneyland gets announced soon? Or does this mean they stand pat for a few years and let DCA and Cars Land soak up the crowds that Disneyland would usually get?

Here's the newspaper article from Wednesday on the latest DCA attendance record... http://www.ocregister.com/news/park-359925-disney-springs.html

 

[HMF]

Ooo you had to go and say that!

Reiterating what's been said earlier, DCA got its fix since it was acknowledged it was broke to the extent it was costing money in reduced income. Nothing at WDW is considered broken. DHS is known to have serious issues as an overall experience but until guests stop paying the east parks will just get lip service compared to CarsLand and other proposals for Disneyland. Add to the local vs tourist demographic and Disneyland as a resort will continue to have additions - big and small - as a regular priority as opposed to the Orlando just-ticking-over mentality. There's a difference between the minimum to keep things appearing fresh and capital expenditure expansion projects.

Yes, FLE is very nice and a welcome addition. However, it's one born out of nessecity to increase the popular parks capacity, generate more income, and repurpose and replace life-expired facilities. Not to mention reclaim (finally) the lost ground from 20k. It adds 2 D tickets, an expensive restaurant and a replacement kiddy area but also looses a popular attraction and replaces life expired buildings. I'm sure I'll enjoy Mermaid and Mine Coaster, but not as much as had they properly rebuilt Space Mountain as originally planned or built the TRON family E Ride behind Buzz.

I hate to say it but it seems that the majority of the WDW Fanbase is it's own worst enemy , blindly defending poor management and show quality Standards and accusing those who really care about WDW of being "haters" or "Doom & Gloomers"

 

[jt04]

I always enjoy your insight! Thanks for the reality check, yet again.

And for those keeping score at home.... Disney California Adventure just broke an attendance record again, this time on Tuesday, two days after the records fell the first time over the weekend.

According to Al Lutz and the Orange County Register newspaper, on Tuesday they had 53,000 people at DCA and 47,000 people at Disneyland. That's 100K combined, and a new record for DCA. DCA is now pulling in bigger numbers than Disneyland. My question is... does this mean the new E Ticket for Disneyland gets announced soon? Or does this mean they stand pat for a few years and let DCA and Cars Land soak up the crowds that Disneyland would usually get?

Here's the newspaper article from Wednesday on the latest DCA attendance record... http://www.ocregister.com/news/park-359925-disney-springs.html

Imagine going back a few years and a different outcome. Imagine if all of the complaining by the WDW fan community had caused Iger to divert funds from DCA to give us some half-funded attractions at WDW. We would have ended up with a mediocre DCA and some mediocre adds at WDW. What if Al Lutz had succeeded in stirring the pot enough at WDW to force funding from the DLR to WDW just to calm things down. Martin and others have confirmed Iger almost cut the budget for DCA. So I do not think this scenario is that unthinkable.

Most importantly, think of the implications of a scaled back DCA. Sure the crowds would have shown up. Sure the beancounters would have claimed they made the project that much more profitable as they patted themselves on the back (enter puking smiley here) as they also likely did when the scaled back Expedition Everest opened and the crowds were great.

But there is a major difference now that Lasseter likely succeeded in his goals or at least mostly did. You see I am convinced DCA has real legs now (or should I say wheels?). And I agree with Ignohippo that it will be impossible to justify gutting WDI projects as was done with E:E, Kali, Mission Space, BK, Space Mountain etc etc etc. from now on.

Between the success of Potter (which would be even more impressive had the bean counters not trimmed that project) and the liklihood that DCA 2.0 will continue to pay for itself literally for decades, there will no longer be any justification for half-baked WDI projects going forward because some corporate beaurcrat has no vision.

Now the entire DCA project will be able justify similar projects elsewhere if management and investors are serious about wanting a good return. How ironic it would be if the complaining about the slow progress at WDW by the fan community had kept DCA 2.0 from being fully realized thus enabling the bean counters to still claim victory and potentially scuttling great Imagineering projects that could be planned for WDW.

 

[Florida_is_hot]

The place just opened !!!!!
People are curious nothing more, the numbers will drop again.

 

[jt04]

The place just opened !!!!!
People are curious nothing more, the numbers will drop again.

Uh, no. DL's numbers do not drop because there is enough magic to sustain the park. DCA now has enough magic to maintain its numbers as we are currently seeing. The initial surge and typical drop-off will be countered by word of mouth and the right dose of pixie dust. Adding more true Disney magic is to add to the bottom line.

There is a formula that works (see DCA 2.0) and there is a formula that does not work (original DCA, budgeted Kali River Rapids, CMM over BK, Dinorama etc). And fortunately there are now people at Disney that know the difference and can do something about it.

 

[Gatorboy]

I don't see that happening as no one would hate on someone for wishful thinking. I have a lot of that myself even if it never amounts to anything. I don't think JT is right in predicting WDW will get better in the near future, but I definitely WANT such a thing to happen.

The problem with assuming things is just looking at the bare basics of how things are apparently run between Disneyland and WDW. And I have to say i'd like to see a thorough fixing of everything that already exists at WDW and needs attention before we actually move onto something else to build and neglect (like how Everest was basically neglected not even after a full year of opening).

This is exactly how DLR started it's recovery, fixing everything up prior to their 50th. TDA found that spending a little money maintaing, then plusing attractions increased a stale attendance. I personally see the same thing going on right now at WDW. Look at Main St., Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Pooh, etc. These are little things that are building up. Yeti and other things stick out, but hopefully they will also be addressed. Given the chance, I think we'll see all that's wrong get attention. Just not as quick as we would all like.

 

[jt04]

This is exactly how DLR started it's recovery, fixing everything up prior to their 50th. TDA found that spending a little money maintaing, then plusing attractions increased a stale attendance. I personally see the same thing going on right now at WDW. Look at Main St., Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Pooh, etc. These are little things that are building up. Yeti and other things stick out, but hopefully they will also be addressed. Given the chance, I think we'll see all that's wrong get attention. Just not as quick as we would all like.

Exactly! They are 'setting the table' in a way that is very similar to the way they did leading up to DL's 50th. And that has succeeded beyond expectations. It would be unreasonable to think they won't try to repeat that success at WDW.

 

[prberk]

Is it just me, or isn't the racing ride (forgot the name) at Carsland just Test Track (especially the outside part) with a Radiator Springs backdrop?

 

[jpittore1]

The place just opened !!!!!
People are curious nothing more, the numbers will drop again.

Based on the billions of investment in DCA over the last few years...it's caught our attention and we planned a June 2013 vacation.

 

[OrangeTree]

Is it just me, or isn't the racing ride (forgot the name) at Carsland just Test Track (especially the outside part) with a Radiator Springs backdrop?

No, it seemingly has scenes and AAs in there... but... ya know... Cars.

If I had a choice between the investment in WDW or the ride in WDW, I would take the investment.

 

[OrangeTree]

Ooo you had to go and say that!

Reiterating what's been said earlier, DCA got its fix since it was acknowledged it was broke to the extent it was costing money in reduced income. Nothing at WDW is considered broken. DHS is known to have serious issues as an overall experience but until guests stop paying the east parks will just get lip service compared to CarsLand and other proposals for Disneyland. Add to the local vs tourist demographic and Disneyland as a resort will continue to have additions - big and small - as a regular priority as opposed to the Orlando just-ticking-over mentality. There's a difference between the minimum to keep things appearing fresh and capital expenditure expansion projects.

Yes, FLE is very nice and a welcome addition. However, it's one born out of nessecity to increase the popular parks capacity, generate more income, and repurpose and replace life-expired facilities. Not to mention reclaim (finally) the lost ground from 20k. It adds 2 D tickets, an expensive restaurant and a replacement kiddy area but also looses a popular attraction and replaces life expired buildings. I'm sure I'll enjoy Mermaid and Mine Coaster, but not as much as had they properly rebuilt Space Mountain as originally planned or built the TRON family E Ride behind Buzz.

I honestly have no idea how they would go about a park like that..

Interesting to note that everybody but Orlando (and the fans) think that MGM is broken.

I wish they would think that way about MK or EPCOT. ...Even DAK. Much more important things to fix, though MGM does need help.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Is it just me, or isn't the racing ride (forgot the name) at Carsland just Test Track (especially the outside part) with a Radiator Springs backdrop?

It's just you.

 

[sgtmgd]

Well, other that both the CFO and CEO of TWDC saying that they are reducing domestic spending. Hard to add content with no capital investment.

Reducing Capital spending..is fine...when talking about an Empire as big as Disney that still leaves more than enough money to add and or upgrade attractions.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Is it just me, or isn't the racing ride (forgot the name) at Carsland just Test Track (especially the outside part) with a Radiator Springs backdrop?

Completely. It's Test Track, on a much grander scale, with AA's.

But I'm COMPLETELY fine with that. I've got no problem with them re-using a ride system (for a thrid time here) if they wrap it in as beautiful a package as they seem to have for RSR.

The weird thing to me about RSR is judging by the videos I've seen thus far, the top speeds seem to be VERY low compared to TT. There just doesn't seem to be much of a "thrill" aspect to it... It seems much more purposed to create a sense of "awe" instead. And I think I'm okay with that... It just seems weird to me that they didn't include at least one high speed section like at TT for whatever reason. Maybe after years of operating TT they've found that's too stressful on the ride system? I don't know. But it just seems odd to me.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think it would be wise to prepare yourself for a MarvelOus new park.

...sigh. Anyone got some plans for WestCOT lying around? Can we bombard Iger and his minions with those?

The Marvel park is still a huge rumor. The idea is cool, for sure, but with everything that went down with DCA... I just don't want that to happen again. Plus, I don't want there to be too many parks to manage, not that I don't think the DLR managment team couldn't handle it or anything.

 

[misterID]

Completely. It's Test Track, on a much grander scale, with AA's.

But I'm COMPLETELY fine with that. I've got no problem with them re-using a ride system (for a thrid time here) if they wrap it in as beautiful a package as they seem to have for RSR.

The weird thing to me about RSR is judging by the videos I've seen thus far, the top speeds seem to be VERY low compared to TT. There just doesn't seem to be much of a "thrill" aspect to it... It seems much more purposed to create a sense of "awe" instead. And I think I'm okay with that... It just seems weird to me that they didn't include at least one high speed section like at TT for whatever reason. Maybe after years of operating TT they've found that's too stressful on the ride system? I don't know. But it just seems odd to me.

I think that's per Lasseter. He wanted you to be able to take in the scenery, like how he tried to slow down Mermaid and make it longer so you can take in all the details, it just didn't work for that rde.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I think that's per Lasseter. He wanted you to be able to take in the scenery, like how he tried to slow down Mermaid and make it longer so you can take in all the details, it just didn't work for that rde.

Makes sense. Still, it's weird to me. You'd think the very last stretch before the finish line could have included a quick accelleration between the two cars or something. Seems like it would have been so easy, and a small thrill.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'm not sure that DCA has wheels. DL will always be the #1 park out west, yet the additions that have been made to DCA over the past five years give people a reason to spend a day or two there as well. I don't think that the project will justify similar projects elsewhere though. I think the reason why the attendence has soared in DCA is simply because of the publicity this project has gotten, and the pricetag it was budgeted at. However, this euphoria will eventually settle and although the additions have now turned DCA into a formidable theme park, there isn't any more room to expand the park in the future. And I was surprised they chose Cars to be an entire land, because those movies have been the worst reviewed Disney/Pixar movies to date. Either way, this park is going to be the same for a while, unlike Disney World which can always expand and doesn't need a 1.7 billion dollar budget to do so. Personally, I have not been on the ride yet, but I don't see the thrill factor I was expecting from RSR. Yes, the detail and area looks fantastic, but the ride as a whole doesn't seem to be worth the $200+ million budget it was granted. Test Track was built on a $100 million budget, and I think it has more thrills and excitement than I see with RSR. Sometimes people get too caught up on the cost of projects, and when WDW cuts expansion budgets, they feel like the people in charge have no vision. Maybe they just don't need that much money to keep people coming back to the parks. Although I enjoy new attractions, I was more thrilled with the refurbs they did at the MK to classic attractions like the Haunted Mansion and PoTC. Those projects needed modest budgets yet the enhancements, for me at least, would provide the same enjoyment that I would get from an expensive addition such as Carsland

DCA does indeed have legs and it will be fine now. Cars Land is not about the popularity of the films, it's about taking the believeable setting of the story and making it real. I can bet you a lot of people haven't seen Song of the South, yet Splash Mountain is very popular.

The rockwork for RSR alone is worth the 250 mil, not to mention the AAs. Oh and if Disney ever decides to keep expanding the Disneyland Resort, whether it's DCA or DL, they'll find a way. They will expand, Disneyland will never be completed.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The weird thing to me about RSR is judging by the videos I've seen thus far, the top speeds seem to be VERY low compared to TT. There just doesn't seem to be much of a "thrill" aspect to it... It seems much more purposed to create a sense of "awe" instead.

I remember hearing somewhere that the top speed is only 35 MPH. I think you can get away with the "awe" strategy if you're going to be looking at a huge amount of such lovely rockwork instead of the backstage of the Mexico pavilion.

 

[TP2000]

Is it just me, or isn't the racing ride (forgot the name) at Carsland just Test Track (especially the outside part) with a Radiator Springs backdrop?

It's Test Track with a Radiator Springs backdrop the same way Journey To The Center Of The Earth at DisneySea is "just" Test Track with a Jules Verne backdrop.

Journey To The Center Of The Earth, DisneySea - Featuring Test Track 2.0 Ride System

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6769614199_d2f51103e3_z.jpg

Or, similarly, Maelstrom is "just" Pirates of the Caribbean with a Norwegian backdrop. But it's not really, is it?

RSR uses the same basic ride system and conveyance process as Test Track, but is a very different ride experience.