-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
D23 - No Big Theme Park Announcements?
- Thread starter Empress Room
- Start date
How would magic become dated? It was supposed to be a bunch of illusions - you know what else has a bunch of illusions? The Haunted Mansion. Is the Haunted Mansion dated?
I'm not saying it's the greatest idea I've ever heard of, but I wouldn't denigrate it for being dated.
etwtec
Active Member
I wonder what kind of surprises... Or if it will be stuff we already know like whats going on with the new Fantasyland and DCA stuff. There sure are a lot of rumors going around in regards to WDWs entertainment...
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
Probably something DVC related.
comics101
Well-Known Member
This thing has me so confused...
The attractions that currently offer Fastpass to any park visitor, and plenty of attractions that don’t have Fastpass currently, would be converted over to XPass so that the only way to access a priority boarding slot at the ride would be to book your vacation with Disney and give your vacation plans over to the XPass system in advance. -Al Lutz
So they're replacing FP with XP and the only way to obtain an XP is to plan your trip months/weeks in advanced? That doesn't sound too pleasent to me at all, in fact it sounds terrible. I can't imagine it would go over very well, though I suppose I'm not an average guest...
Spike-in-Berlin
Well-Known Member
Shanghai would be really interesting, at least I could get there by train (I have fear of flying) although it takes a little longer...
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I read the rundown on what XPass is from Al Lutz in his last big Miceage column, and I just kept thinking how I'm apparently not the target audience that "Disney Parks" wants to attract with this.
I have an AP to Disneyland, so that makes it worthless and/or unavailable to me, and I hate to plan my vacations more than Disney already does when I go to WDW.
XPass, at least as described by Al Lutz, sounds like a giant disaster for most of the Disney fan community.
Brian Noble
Well-Known Member
Two thoughts on XPass and Al.
One: Disney is the last theme park operator to offer free Virtual Queueing. Every other operator who offered it free (Universal, Cedar Fair, maybe one or two others) has abandoned it in favor of paid versions. Every operator who had a paid version (Six Flags, Universal, Busch) has expanded it. Disney is much more focused on guest satisfaction than these others, and that has played a role in keeping it free. But as the general public becomes more and more accustomed to pay-to-play systems, the barrier for Disney to switch to such a system drops.
Two: Al sometimes doesn't know what the h*ll he is talking about. For example, he was sure that the new executive structure would free Anaheim from Florida. Oops. This could be another one of those times. While it is possible that Disney will convert entirely to a monetized scheme, I suspect instead they will provide a mix of access levels, where people spending bigger bucks on property get more access to the system, but offsite guests and locals will still be thrown a bone.
However, if you looked at the numbers, I bet you'd find that the casual onsite visitor is the highest-margin guest. Locals' total spend might be about the same, or even higher, but they spread that spend over many many more visits, so per-caps for locals with annual passes are probably comparatively low. The same is almost certainly true for the offsite casual guest---I would not be surprised to hear that the margin/ROI in the resorts side of the business is much better than in the parks. If that's so, then it makes perfect sense for Disney to further incentivize those high-margin guests, possibly at the expense of some of the low-margin ones. Fewer people spending more money might well be more profitable. What's more, the oft-repeated "reason" for FP was to get the guests out of line and spending money. But, if you go back and look at the per-cap numbers, there was no serious boost in spending post-FP vs. pre-FP, other than what could be attributed to the usual inflation/gate increases.
One: Disney is the last theme park operator to offer free Virtual Queueing. Every other operator who offered it free (Universal, Cedar Fair, maybe one or two others) has abandoned it in favor of paid versions. Every operator who had a paid version (Six Flags, Universal, Busch) has expanded it. Disney is much more focused on guest satisfaction than these others, and that has played a role in keeping it free. But as the general public becomes more and more accustomed to pay-to-play systems, the barrier for Disney to switch to such a system drops.
Two: Al sometimes doesn't know what the h*ll he is talking about. For example, he was sure that the new executive structure would free Anaheim from Florida. Oops. This could be another one of those times. While it is possible that Disney will convert entirely to a monetized scheme, I suspect instead they will provide a mix of access levels, where people spending bigger bucks on property get more access to the system, but offsite guests and locals will still be thrown a bone.
However, if you looked at the numbers, I bet you'd find that the casual onsite visitor is the highest-margin guest. Locals' total spend might be about the same, or even higher, but they spread that spend over many many more visits, so per-caps for locals with annual passes are probably comparatively low. The same is almost certainly true for the offsite casual guest---I would not be surprised to hear that the margin/ROI in the resorts side of the business is much better than in the parks. If that's so, then it makes perfect sense for Disney to further incentivize those high-margin guests, possibly at the expense of some of the low-margin ones. Fewer people spending more money might well be more profitable. What's more, the oft-repeated "reason" for FP was to get the guests out of line and spending money. But, if you go back and look at the per-cap numbers, there was no serious boost in spending post-FP vs. pre-FP, other than what could be attributed to the usual inflation/gate increases.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
The problem is, the conversion of Fastpass to XPass would be a complete 180 on repeat visitors. While many repeat visitors stay on property, a very significant percentage of them don't stay on property and this switch will dramatically decrease their satisfaction. If given the choice of always waiting in the standby queue each time I stay off property I will be far more apt to vacation elsewhere. Sure, that new destination might be Disneyland (where it seems XPass wouldn't happen), but it would definitely result in a decrease in visits to WDW.
I agree. However, I could see Disney adapting the XPass as an enticement for their Deluxe Resort guests, or perhaps as some sort of overall package upgrade for those booking their packages through Disney directly.
tirian
Well-Known Member
This is purely anecdotal, but here it goes...
I stay in Deluxe resorts frequently—usually club level. The majority of affluent guests I speak to already feel Disney is too stressful. They usually depend on concierge to book their restaurants because a 180-day window is ridiculous to anyone who isn't a Disney nut. I have had long conversations with wealthy guests who hate the fact that their entire $15k+ vacation depends on sticking to predetermined eating times, ruining their flexibility and plans to relax. Combined with the crowds, many of them wish they had just gone to an island resort or Europe. Of course, some people also assume the monorail will take them everywhere and they turn their noses up at the buses.
Anyway, my point is that I can see how Disney could spin this internally to favor technological changes: "Surveys show our highest spending guests are frustrated with the existing infrastructure, so we'll make things easier by giving them an itinerary with everything on it, plus throwing in some FastPass perks!" Yet in my experience, the schedules are exactly what frustrate guests; they're already stressed enough in real life, and they hate having to follow yet another schedule to "enjoy" their vacations.
Plus, let's be honest: most truly wealthy guests typically stay off property at the Ritz or Waldorf-Astoria and visit WDW once every few years. The majority of Deluxe resort visitors are upper-middle-class people with massive discounts. A tiered FP system would be an artificial caste in the parks. Those people (myself included) already enjoy nicer resorts, better transportation, and more amenities. There's no reason to add FP perks to Deluxe resorts.
ChrisM
Well-Known Member
This is 100% accurate.
tirian
Well-Known Member
I'm concerned about how it would affect CMs using Main Gates for entrance. When I'm bringing visitors to the parks, we usually stay at the Poly, AKL, or Boardwalk. Would our resort status supersede the "local" tickets, or would we be stuck without XP because we're not on a package?
The whole thing reeks of an executive with too much time on his hands. The company should have invested the money into better maintenance and resort expansions instead of a fancy scheduling system. The old people need to understand that nobody except stodgy executives is wowed by technology anymore; we grew up with it. :lol:
Then there's always the possibility that the XPass leaks are wrong and the system won't be used this way. We could be getting upset over nothing. I hope so.
WDWFigment
Well-Known Member
I'll repeat what I've been saying all along (mostly because I love 'hearing' myself talk, but partly because I really think it's the case):
I really think we are prematurely getting worked up over nothing. Part of me does fear that XPass might be the terrible brainchild of an executive who 'cooked up' a skewed survey to achieve results he wanted to get this project off of the ground, but I just really don't think it will work the way so many people anticipate. The incentive to force planning so tight (as with ADRs) just isn't there with the rest of the vacation planning. I have a difficult time seeing how the plans, as we're discussing them, would benefit Disney.
I really think we are prematurely getting worked up over nothing. Part of me does fear that XPass might be the terrible brainchild of an executive who 'cooked up' a skewed survey to achieve results he wanted to get this project off of the ground, but I just really don't think it will work the way so many people anticipate. The incentive to force planning so tight (as with ADRs) just isn't there with the rest of the vacation planning. I have a difficult time seeing how the plans, as we're discussing them, would benefit Disney.
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
Let's hope you're right. What happens when you're on an attraction that goes 101 and you're sitting there for 30 minutes? What about when you're orders get messed up at a restaurant with the added slow service? Both of those things happened to me on my most recent trip. It's not a bad idea to have some sort of plan for the day, but you can't take away all flexibility. Too many variables can throw things off.
tirian
Well-Known Member
I noticed that.
The idea has indeed been tossed around internally as a "benefit," but I also doubt it's going to be finalized as such. I sincerely hope this is all just bad information passed along by overexcited, overzealous talking heads within the company.
tomman710
Well-Known Member
This is purely anecdotal, but here it goes...
I stay in Deluxe resorts frequently—usually club level. The majority of affluent guests I speak to already feel Disney is too stressful. They usually depend on concierge to book their restaurants because a 180-day window is ridiculous to anyone who isn't a Disney nut. I have had long conversations with wealthy guests who hate the fact that their entire $15k+ vacation depends on sticking to predetermined eating times, ruining their flexibility and plans to relax. Combined with the crowds, many of them wish they had just gone to an island resort or Europe. Of course, some people also assume the monorail will take them everywhere and they turn their noses up at the buses.
Anyway, my point is that I can see how Disney could spin this internally to favor technological changes: "Surveys show our highest spending guests are frustrated with the existing infrastructure, so we'll make things easier by giving them an itinerary with everything on it, plus throwing in some FastPass perks!" Yet in my experience, the schedules are exactly what frustrate guests; they're already stressed enough in real life, and they hate having to follow yet another schedule to "enjoy" their vacations.
Plus, let's be honest: most truly wealthy guests typically stay off property at the Ritz or Waldorf-Astoria and visit WDW once every few years. The majority of Deluxe resort visitors are upper-middle-class people with massive discounts. A tiered FP system would be an artificial caste in the parks. Those people (myself included) already enjoy nicer resorts, better transportation, and more amenities. There's no reason to add FP perks to Deluxe resorts.
I am not part of the wealthy socioeconomic group but I will voice, as part of the minority probably, that I would LOVE a pay and tiered FP system.
I am a very regular AP WDW goer and I, like many of us, know enough strategies to wait in the least amount of lines as possible ... even so ... I would still PAY to have a special or more advanced or more exclusive FP.
I know this is a thread about the exact rumor but I thought I'd offer my two cents on how I see it working ... sort of like the Six Flags systems, you could have a general free FP system for resort guests or AP holders or DVC customers and then have the basic FP system to buy into if you are off-property etc ... Then there should be an upgrade system you can buy into, a tiered level of service which could offer things such as more than one FP at a given time or specialized lines or day plans or whatever.
I don't chime in often but this was something I was definitely down with if a pay FP system was in order.
