Cuts coming to every area of parks and resorts - thanks to Shanghai and Paris

[Mike S]

The light leaks inside the mountain need to be fixed as well.

 

[Andrew C]

The light leaks inside the mountain need to be fixed as well.

Where does this happen?

 

[FigmentForver96]

Where does this happen?

As your rolling backwards. Light leaks in some places and reveals the beams.

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm sure they talked to morticans too, to see what a Yeti should look like with rigor mortis.

 

[wdwmagic]

The attraction itself is amazing and so was the Yeti, But it appears that Disney cheaped out on the concrete base which cracked recall the peak energy of the Yeti while in motion was several megawatts and the base was unable to handle the dynamic load imposed by the Yeti in motion. As per usual Disney probably went with the cheapest base design.

Also remember the Yeti was made of low tech materials i.e. steel so what may have happened was there was a yeti design in aluminum and a corresponding base along with a steel one and some suit decided to use the Steel Yeti along with the Aluminum Yeti base because each element was cheaper not understanding that the aluminum yeti base could not support the loading which a steel framed yeti would impose

The reality is we will never KNOW unless JR writes a tell all book about AK.

Thanks for your typical one-sided analysis and leap to probably the wrong conclusions.

There are a whole multitude of issues that could be the root cause, and nothing to do with a cheap design. Perhaps a manufacturing defect in one of the materials.

 

[ANJ]

Can someone answer a question for me? If Disney is a minority partner in SDL, and they are so over budget does anyone know how much the Chinese are putting in the pot? Is there really anyway we could know? Why does it seem that Disney is covering the cost over runs? I am just not understanding this arraignment. What about profits? Who is doing the book keeping for the park? The Chinese? LOL tell me it isn't so? If you are a stock holder has Disney informed their share holders of this arraignment? I know, so many questions yet so few answers.

 

[Brad Bishop]

To government (not just Chinese) the amount of money spent is of little consequence (until they dilute it so far that it has no value at all - they'll still make it work, somehow).

From China's point of view they could have dumped 5x what Disney has into the property and it wouldn't really matter to those making the decisions if it were done right or wrong or had to be redone 5 times. They've been building ghost cities for a few decades on this principle. Blowing a wad on SDL doesn't mean anything. They're still robbing from their people but, who cares about that? Communism!

 

[Nemo14]

Hasn't Disney ever heard of www.gofundme.com?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Can someone answer a question for me? If Disney is a minority partner in SDL, and they are so over budget does anyone know how much the Chinese are putting in the pot? Is there really anyway we could know? Why does it seem that Disney is covering the cost over runs? I am just not understanding this arraignment. What about profits? Who is doing the book keeping for the park? The Chinese? LOL tell me it isn't so? If you are a stock holder has Disney informed their share holders of this arraignment? I know, so many questions yet so few answers.

At a minimum, Disney is covering "its" cost overruns. What "it" includes largely depends on fine print buried in the agreement.

The Chinese put up the land, site preparation, infrastructure, and services, almost all certainly at grossly inflated prices. For example, the undeveloped land might have had a value of $50M. But hey, suddenly that land is being used for a Disney resort. It's now prime real estate and, for the purposes of determining percent ownership, it might be valued at $500M. Conceptually, it's similar to what happened in 1966 when Disney bought land in central Florida at $125/acre, only to have values shoot up to $1000/acre once the news leaked. What is different is that Disney is now the one effectively paying $1000/acre for that land.

When it comes to cold, hard cash, Disney almost certainly put up the lion's share. Disney may very well be financially responsible for most of the overruns.

The bigger point is; it can be extremely complicated doing business in China. It's not for the weak of heart. Doing business in China is not like doing business in the West, especially when your "partner" is essentially the Chinese government. Much of what you thought you knew about business law simply doesn't apply (or is unenforceable) in China.

 

[zooey]

This isn't a thread started by me. It is MAGICal Steve's!

And the issues are: no one wanted to talk about this project here for the last 3-4 years except for me and about 5-10 others, now, every fanboi and his boyfriend wants to whine about all the O-Town and Anaheim cutbacks when guess what? They are all desperate moves from a desperate regime in Burbank. I don't think all that highly of Colglazier and Kalogridis, but at the end of the day they are just doing what Iger thru Chappie is demanding: anything and everything to screw Guests and Cast to somehow make Shanghai look less of a disaster than some of us know it to be.

Coming together? Based on a few photos that are not closeups and show very little detail? I know you have decided to go ... and, frankly, I'll be shocked if @WDWFigment and a few others aren't there. But I have enough intel to make the decision that the first six months of this park's operations are going to be a total cluster.

I don't see these cuts adding up to much in comparison to loss of revenue had Shanghai been open by now or cost overruns now. There isn't anything they could do to actually offset that cost, right? Which means they're either just desperate or are they using the opportunity to set a new lower standard? The food quality thing bothers me a lot because that's certainly something that won't bounce back even if Shanghai proves successful. That will remain like that for a long long time.

 

[HMF]

I really hope this whole house of cards collapses on Iger for the long-term good of the company. I will do my part by avoiding the parks until well into the next decade if not longer.

 

[ford91exploder]

Thanks for your typical one-sided analysis and leap to probably the wrong conclusions.

There are a whole multitude of issues that could be the root cause, and nothing to do with a cheap design. Perhaps a manufacturing defect in one of the materials.

Reinforced concrete is not rocket science I'm an engineer and I do failure analysis every day

We KNOW the concrete base cracked to put the Yeti back in service the base must be replaced which would involve removing the yeti mechanical systems and re-pouring the base.

Reinforced concrete structures simply do not fail under design loads there is simply too much experience and literature out there on how to design a reinforced concrete base for any machine from a launch pad for a rocket to a bridge or a high power industrial robot which is what the Yeti is.

So based on the known facts we have 3 conclusions

1 Base was not designed to handle the loads generated by the yeti. As a substitution of steel for aluminum would create. A PE would understand why the base for a Steel yeti costs more. A suit with a MBA not so much

2. Concrete did not meet specifications but the contractor should have had core samples to ensure that the pours met the requirements set by the engineer and the lab should have tested each pour for the job

3 internal reinforcement structure i.e. Rebar did not follow engineers plan and suffered a fatigue failure causing base to crack because of the loss of internal structural integrity

None of these explanations are particularly flattering to WDIs engineering oversight and all speak to the search for 'savings'

In short engineered structures to support machines cost what they cost with little variance between construction companies except for labor.

 

[BrianLo]

Those kind of things don't bother me nearly as much as spending $5 million+ on a Mr. Potato Head or Ursela.

The over-spending by WDI is completely ridiculous.

I don't mind them spending time to get details right. I do care that they spend $150-200 million on a dark ride attraction that could have been done much better 40 years ago for under $10 million (by today's dollars).

The idea that a bunch of puppets attached to mechanical sticks equals a couple hundred million dollars (with zero work done to the inside of the ride portion of the show building beside paint, btw) is insane.

Isn't that outsourced to Garner Holt?

 

[Brad Bishop]

Reinforced concrete is not rocket science I'm an engineer and I do failure analysis every day

We KNOW the concrete base cracked to put the Yeti back in service the base must be replaced which would involve removing the yeti mechanical systems and re-pouring the base.

Reinforced concrete structures simply do not fail under design loads there is simply too much experience and literature out there on how to design a reinforced concrete base for any machine from a launch pad for a rocket to a bridge or a high power industrial robot which is what the Yeti is.

So based on the known facts we have 3 conclusions

1 Base was not designed to handle the loads generated by the yeti. As a substitution of steel for aluminum would create. A PE would understand why the base for a Steel yeti costs more. A suit with a MBA not so much

2. Concrete did not meet specifications but the contractor should have had core samples to ensure that the pours met the requirements set by the engineer and the lab should have tested each pour for the job

3 internal reinforcement structure i.e. Rebar did not follow engineers plan and suffered a fatigue failure causing base to crack because of the loss of internal structural integrity

None of these explanations are particularly flattering to WDIs engineering oversight and all speak to the search for 'savings'

In short engineered structures to support machines cost what they cost with little variance between construction companies except for labor.

It's not like they haven't been short-sighted before with regards to the engineering (and suits making the calls): Rocket Rods

 

[PizzaPlanet]

If only they had chosen Barcelona. Was that considered?

I wish I was in Barcelona now...

 

[ABQ]

I see Miceage finally posted an article on the effects of Shanghai on Disneyland and California Adventure. Losing a parade for at least a month, shortened hours at both parks, all while ticket prices increase and a good chunk of Disneyland is already closed. Feeling pretty bad for anyone who planned to visit the SoCal parks this spring.
Link here.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

My friends and I were at the parks last week for the week and every time something happened, we'd angrily exclaim: "Shangai!" We invented a new meaning for the term shanghai'd. It's funny because the term fits in the old definition as well, considering how many people are still getting duped into throwing money into DHS.

Here are some things I noticed on my week:
-Extraordinarily long lines, 10-30% longer than usual
-Food prices up at most of the table service restaurants ($5 a dish in some cases) and Epcot F&G Booths
-Ridiculous waits for buses at some parks, mostly Animal Kingdom. I know it can be bad sometimes, but one day in particular, around 2:00 PM, we waiting for 50 minutes for a bus to come for Art of Animation. Two Pop buses came and we jumped on the second one. I don't know when the AoA bus finally got there. The line for AoA (and also the line for the All-Star hotels) went out from under the canopy and around the corner.
-Shuttered restaurants at MK that should definitely be open for Easter week crowds (Tortuga Tavern, for instance)

Some of my friends are CMs and when I told them about the ToT rumors, they blew them off. I tried to explain it's not one of those "bus driver" rumors, but if they checked their sources, they would find some validity. That was the ultimate Shanghai moment for us, I think. You could almost hear the sad Hulk music in the background.

 

[xdan0920]

I see Miceage finally posted an article on the effects of Shanghai on Disneyland and California Adventure. Losing a parade for at least a month, shortened hours at both parks, all while ticket prices increase and a good chunk of Disneyland is already closed. Feeling pretty bad for anyone who planned to visit the SoCal parks this spring.
Link here.

Nope, I distinctly remember some folks posting in here that these cuts were normal. This is just click bait. Everything is fine.

Keep in mind what the purpose of this thread - to let the people convinced that WDW is going downhill due to the evil management to post their feelings. If the original story had just said that Disney is doing their normal optimizing of times and staffing, the postings would have died after 2 pages. @wdwmagic knows how to keep the discussions going for the enjoyment of all types.

See ^^^^ John knows the deal.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The light leaks inside the mountain need to be fixed as well.

If you sit on the left hand side of the train, it's worse than a leak. You can see the entire interior structure of the mountain, completely lit up bright as day.

But that being said... If they haven't taken the time or money to fix the focal point of the attraction for 10 years now, there's no way in Anandapur they're going to fix light leaks.

 

[Mike S]

If you sit on the left hand side of the train, it's worse than a leak. You can see the entire interior structure of the mountain, completely lit up bright as day.

But that being said... If they haven't taken the time or money to fix the focal point of the attraction for 10 years now, there's no way in Anandapur they're going to fix light leaks.

I was actually on the left side last time I rode. Its terrible what's happened to show quality over the years.