Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[DisneyDebRob]

Slobs are defined by behavior not financial behavior.

That's obvious of course. Or should be.

 

[SorcererMC]

But it's not, and not trying to be. Orlando is a fun city, and has grown a lot, but tourist wise- It is a family destination. European high roller couples aren't spending their vacations in Orlando at theme parks.

Please take this 'tongue in cheek' - Epcot Food and Wine festival begs to differ.
It's a big draw for people w/o kids, as far as I know (can't confirm).

Edit: Further, it is 100% trying to be, and is being marketed as such by state and local govt as well as businesses. They have succeeded to a certain extent. Orlando really has transformed. I know it's hard to believe, and I understand exactly where you are coming from, because I used to think the same thing until I really started investigating it a while ago.

 

[SorcererMC]

Yes, I was having trouble in trying to figure out how to include UK. Hemispheric plus Greenwich Mean?

UK, Germany, France. Core EU country markets for FL. Now, I don't know what the split would be between Orlando and Miami for example. Gotta do more digging on that.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There are a LOT more single parent households now.

Yes. There are also a lot more 2 parent families with both parents working.

Using household income will take both into account.

Let's focus on more recent data, beginning with 2005 when Bob Iger became CEO:

Even in the last decade, WDW has become significantly more expensive for nearly everyone.

 

[21stamps]

Please take this 'tongue in cheek' - Epcot Food and Wine festival begs to differ.
It's a big draw for people w/o kids, as far as I know (can't confirm).

Edit: Further, it is 100% trying to be, and is being marketed as such by state and local govt as well as businesses. They have succeeded to a certain extent. Orlando really has transformed.

Orlando has transformed Sooo much over the years. It's a great city. I do agree with you about food and wine.. That's the only time I went to Disney as an adult trip..and we went annually (4 hour drive away), Halloween horror nights was an annual thing as well. I can't say I would have spent money on flights to fly in annually though..but I loved it!

Orlando isn't trying to be Miami like a SoBe or Bal Harbour though. They are trying to be an all inclusive stop, or a longer stop, instead of just "a few days" before or after your coastal vacation. They have definitely succeeded in that.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yes. There are also a lot more 2 parent families with both parents working.

That's because its almost impossible to vacate at Disney now with all the massive increases over the past 10 years without that

 

[SorcererMC]

Orlando has transformed Sooo much over the years. It's a great city. I do agree with you about food and wine.. That's the only time I went to Disney as an adult trip..and we went annually (4 hour drive away), Halloween horror nights was an annual thing as well. I can't say I would have spent money on flights to fly in annually though..but I loved it!

Orlando isn't trying to be Miami like a SoBe or Bal Harbour though. They are trying to be an all inclusive stop, or a longer stop, instead of just "a few days" before or after your coastal vacation. They have definitely succeeded in that.

ICYMI I edited my post above to say that I understand where you are coming from b/c I used to think the same thing or very similarly. Yes, Miami is different but my focus has been on Orlando and FL. Actually Miami benefits greatly from intl tourists (eg Arg and Brazil) buying real estate (and paying cash) but I don't want to get too far off topic.

 

[21stamps]

That's because its almost impossible to vacate at Disney now with all the massive increases over the past 10 years without that

Ok I'm sorry, but that's just not true, and kind of offensive. I am the sole parent of my child, I still get through life. I still take my child on vacations.
And people aren't working because of Disney, they are working bc as I previously mentioned- almost everything is more expensive now. So we work longer hours or dual incomes than previous generations.

Using household income will take both into account.

Let's focus on more recent data, beginning with 2005 when Bob Iger became CEO:

View attachment 149971


Even in the last decade, WDW has become significantly more expensive for nearly everyone.

I'm not disputing that. But people are forgetting that a lot more happened during those years in this country than just a new ceo at Disney.

 

[21stamps]

ICYMI I edited my post above to say that I understand where you are coming from b/c I used to think the same thing or very similarly. Yes, Miami is different by my focus has been on Orlando and FL. Actually Miami benefits greatly from intl tourists buying real estate (and paying cash) but I don't want to get too far off topic.

I'm saying that the people you think WDW and Orlando is trying to attract are already somewhere else in Florida. One of the things Orlando is trying to do is keep the families who are on a Florida vacation in their Orlando city walls longer than they used to stay.. And they've succeeded in that. How many people now go to Orlando and never even go anywhere besides MCO to WDW back to MCO.

Does that make sense? Orlando has morphed from a day to few days side trip to it's own destination, but that aren't trying to become the next South Beach.

 

[SorcererMC]

I'm saying that the people you think WDW and Orlando is trying to attract are already somewhere else in Florida. What Orlando is trying to do is keep the families who are on a Florida vacation in their Orlando city walls longer than they used to stay.

Does that make sense? Orlando has morphed from a day to few days side trip to it's own destination.

Yes, I think I would agree with that, but I don't know enough about the actual spending habits of those groups to say one way or the other. The majority of people traveling to FL (both domestic and foreign) are not families though; I'm sure that Orlando is disproportionately families vacationing but I don't have the evidence to back that up. Business travelers are also a significant consumer segment for Orlando and Tampa. This is where it's hard to tell what Disney's data is telling them or where it diverges from the tourist industry data.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, I think I would agree with that, but I don't know enough about the actual spending habits of those groups to say one way or the other. The majority of people traveling to FL (both domestic and foreign) are not families though; I'm sure that Orlando is disproportionately families vacationing but I don't have the evidence to back that up. Business travelers are also a significant consumer segment for Orlando and Tampa. This is where it's hard to tell what Disney's data is telling them or where it diverges from the tourist industry data.

The majority of people are families though. How many single people do you see in Destin?
You also have the spring break crowd.
And also the party people.
Then you have the snowbirds.

All different. Prices for all of them have risen. Outside of just Disney World.
So people can pick a part Disney all day, but compare it to everywhere else in Florida. Prices rise, have been rising, and will probably stay the same for a bit now.

Look at this comparison-

Can't blame Iger for those numbers pictured above.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Well you forgot quite a few things on that very opinionated list. You know, some family with little kids might love the Casey Jr. Splash and Soak station. Heck, it might be the most memorable part of their day!

Similarly, to many people, the Nemo ride was a great improvement over what was previously there. To me? No way. To many of my relatives? You betcha! And the previous ride had been closed for 5 years, so it was certainly an improvement over nothing!

And while you pegged all of the DAK street entertainment as not being attractions, you completely forgot the Tree of Life Awakenings. You completely forgot a lot by the way.

And Minion Mayhem and the carnival ride get a plus while you peg nearly* every single Disney replacement or small addition as being "just an overlay of what was already there" or worse? Come on. I can't even respect your opinion after reading that because it's so obviously and unfairly biased.

I could go on. Point is that your opinion is not reflective of many others'.

* Edit: remove the word "nearly" because you were not positive toward a single small addition or replacement from Disney. Wow.

1). I'm not the one that made the WDW list.

2). Anyone that tells me that Donald Duck's overlay is better than Uni's Despicable Me overlay, or the Simpsons Ride overlay, prooooobably doesn't have their mind set right. Donald's overlay, nemo's overlay, test track's overlay... They're all on the same scale of Dueling Dragons' overlay at IOA. Now if Disney replaced Dinosaur with a copy of Disneyland's Indiana Jones overlay.... THAT would be on the same scale the previously superior mentions of overlays.

3). The original user was stating that WDW has barely added a new attraction in the past decade... Streetmosphere is not an officially labeled "attraction." It is exactly what it is called. Streetmosphere. And Casey Jr. certainly doesn't add up to what can be called an "attraction." Because if that's the case, then Universal totally beat Disney with the water play area thing already in Islands of Adventure with Toon Lagoon as a whole land instead of one statue.

 

[SorcererMC]

The majority of people are families though. How many single people do you see in Destin?
You also have the spring break crowd.
And also the party people.
Then you have the snowbirds.

All different. Prices for all of them have risen. Outside of just Disney World.
So people can pick a part Disney all day, but compare it to everywhere else in Florida. Prices rise, have been rising, and will probably stay the same for a bit now.

Look at this comparison-View attachment 149975View attachment 149975

Can't blame Iger for those numbers pictured above.

Ok. Hotel occupancy is really not my forte but FL ADR is $124.96, and is probably what I think the average person is willing to pay (I'd even say up to $200). WDW value resorts do have prices in that range or more. All things considered, I can't believe that people are willing to pay rack rates for Deluxe resorts, but they do, many conveniences offered at Deluxe, etc. In that respect, I say, to each their own - if they can afford that style of Disney vacation and it works for them, good. Which brings me back to the current attendance and GF/Poly occupancy issue - is that segment saying, 'no thanks' to a WDW vacation?

 

[21stamps]

Ok. Hotel occupancy is really not my forte but FL ADR is $124.96, and is probably what I think the average person is willing to pay (I'd even say up to $200). WDW value resorts do have prices in that range or more. All things considered, I can't believe that people are willing to pay rack rates for Deluxe resorts, but they do, many conveniences offered at Deluxe, etc. In that respect, I say, to each their own - if they can afford that style of Disney vacation and it works for them, good. Which brings me back to the current attendance and GF/Poly occupancy issue - is that segment saying, 'no thanks' to a WDW vacation?

This is my entire point. Deluxe resorts at WDW are not the most expensive hotels in Florida. For some reason I think you have that impression. I totally agree that they're ridiculously priced though!

But re: GF and Poly - where is the occupancy issue? I was at Poly 8 months ago and I couldn't extend my stay, while there, bc they were sold out.
I didn't go for a quick trip in June- bc they were sold out.
I am booked at the Contemporary in December- they have only 2 bedroom suites left now for that week.
Poly & GF - similar.

So I don't know where people are getting this idea. I do hope you are right though, I'm wanting a room discount offer Sooo Badly!!!

 

[SorcererMC]

This is my entire point. Deluxe resorts at WDW are not the most expensive hotels in Florida. For some reason I think you have that impression. I totally agree that they're ridiculously priced though!

But re: GF and Poly - where is the occupancy issue? I was at Poly 8 months ago and I couldn't extend my stay, while there, bc they were sold out.
I didn't go for a quick trip in June- bc they were sold out.
I am booked at the Contemporary in December- they have only 2 bedroom suites left now for that week.
Poly & GF - similar.

So I don't know where people are getting this idea. I do hope you are right though, I'm wanting a room discount offer Sooo Badly!!!

It was reported by WDW1974 in another thread, I think the 'WDW Takes Hit on Massacre and Gator Attack', that hotel occupancy for GF and Poly was down, and he used the 20% figure, which I found surprising. This was probably a week ago, so I'm not going to try to find the exact post.

True, FL has plenty of other high income communities (it is retirement central after all), but I'm limiting my discussion to FL/ Orlando / WDW as much as possible b/c that is the relevant context to me.

Keep your eye out for discounts, not sure when they would be announced for the holiday season, but I feel like WDW is in 'uncharted waters' for the near future.

 

[jlsHouston]

WDW:

Universal:

LOL, stop you're killing me

 

[21stamps]

It was reported by WDW1974 in another thread, I think the 'WDW Takes Hit on Massacre and Gator Attack', that hotel occupancy for GF and Poly was down, and he used the 20% figure, which I found surprising. This was probably a week ago, so I'm not going to try to find the exact post.

True, FL has plenty of other high income communities (it is retirement central after all), but I'm limiting my discussion to FL/ Orlando / WDW as much as possible b/c that is the relevant context to me.

Keep your eye out for discounts, not sure when they would be announced for the holiday season, but I feel like WDW is in 'uncharted waters' for the near future.

Oh trust me I check my email in hopes of spin code daily!lol. No joke.

I totally get what you and a few others are saying. I hate price increases too! I think we all do. I just wanted to point out that WDW isn't alone in doing so, or even in the minority. Also to give a very nearby example of hotel prices being raised at a rate much higher than inflation.

 

[jlsHouston]

Now, now. Play nice.

More like

OMG I have tears now

 

[No Name]

Anyone that tells me that Donald Duck's overlay is better than Uni's Despicable Me overlay, or the Simpsons Ride overlay, prooooobably doesn't have their mind set right. Donald's overlay, nemo's overlay, test track's overlay... They're all on the same scale of Dueling Dragons' overlay at IOA. Now if Disney replaced Dinosaur with a copy of Disneyland's Indiana Jones overlay.... THAT would be on the same scale the previously superior mentions of overlays.

I think Nemo's "overlay" is better than Despicable Me's. So I suppose I don't have my mind set right. I must be crazy to have a different opinion that yours. Sorry!

You are proving my point. Despite what you may think, your opinion is not fact, and it is different from many others's.

And with that, I am done discussing this topic irrelevant to the thread.

 

[natatomic]

3). The original user was stating that WDW has barely added a new attraction in the past decade... Streetmosphere is not an officially labeled "attraction." It is exactly what it is called. Streetmosphere. And Casey Jr. certainly doesn't add up to what can be called an "attraction." Because if that's the case, then Universal totally beat Disney with the water play area thing already in Islands of Adventure with Toon Lagoon as a whole land instead of one statue.

Somewhat related, but I would just like to point out that MDX lists Dino-Sue as an attraction at DAK.