Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[SorcererMC]

LOL yes.

And if anything, the higher prices are only alienating people from poorer countries. There are not many countries with the average person in better financial condition than the US.

So it'd be very difficult for them to alienate American guests by raising prices.

I'm sorry, but your economics are way off here. They are not alienating people from poor countries, they are literally pricing out the middle class, most of whom save and still choose to go (b/c it's tradition)...for now.

Edit: All I'm saying is - I get where people are upset about that, it's been stated on these boards over and over again.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yes, most are. But Disney's strategy reflects them catering to the top tier of Americans and intl tourists b/c they spend so much more. It's great for business, and I don't even really take issue with that. But to think of how many Americans used to be able to afford it and now they can't? Sad indeed.

I just don't see what you are saying. I see plenty of poor slobs at WDW still. They penny pinch elsewhere and go into debt to get their families to WDW because everybody MUST take their kids to WDW. Then they bring Subway and Doritos with them. Perhaps the latest batch of price increases will end this.

 

[lentesta]

Some interesting info related t

Hmmm... if only there was a site that tracked crowd levels... Has anyone invoked the name of @lentesta into this conversation? Maybe if we say his name three times fast while riding the Haunted Mansion, he'll magically appear and swap heads with us (and tell us if crowds are down 30% year over year)? From what I can see of recent reports on TouringPlans, crowd levels compared to last year, as based on wait times, are not down significantly. Wait times and actual attendance are two different things, of course.

We'll have a blog post out on this shortly with data.

The average posted wait time at the Magic Kingdom between 10 am and 5 pm is up about 17% year over year (2015 vs 2016) from June 1 - July 4.

My guess is that almost all of that is due to staff and capacity cutbacks. Here's why:

1) I don't think Disney is artificially inflating the wait times this year (or was keeping them low last year). The ratio of your actual wait to the posted wait is steady at about 0.70. That is, if the posted wait is 60 minutes, you'll wait about 42 this year, same as last year.

2) I'd be surprised if WDW hotel occupancy is up over that same timeframe. I know it was possible to get last-minute rooms for cash at much of the resort over the holiday weekend. (DVC looks to be strong, though.)

3) WDW attendance fell 1% in the previous quarter. I don't believe at all that WDW attendance is up 17% this quarter, during the peak pricing period, year over year.
​

I mean, we could be wrong. Haven't looked at the other parks yet, either. Could be that no one was going to Epcot when Soarin' was closed. Could be lots of things. If anyone has other ideas, let me know.

 

[SorcererMC]

I just don't see what you are saying. I see plenty of poor slobs at WDW still. They penny pinch elsewhere and go into debt to get their families to WDW because everybody MUST take their kids to WDW. Then they bring Subway and Doritos with them. Perhaps the latest batch of price increases will end this.

Believe it or not the bottom rung of 'poor slobs' only accounts for ~20% of FL visitors, so extrapolate that to WDW and they are very much in the minority.

Edit: Here you (or anyone else interested) will find a gold mine of information on who is going to FL: http://www.visitflorida.org/resources/research/
It really is eye-opening/ enlightening. Instead of relying on 'impressions', let's look at the facts presented.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, most are. But Disney's strategy reflects them catering to the top tier of Americans and intl tourists b/c they spend so much more. It's great for business, and I don't even really take issue with that. But to think of how many Americans used to be able to afford it and now they can't? Sad indeed.

But that's just life.
How many people "used" to be able to purchase cars and finance them for 3-4 years. Now they are finance 6,7, and even 8 years. On a car! That's just one example.
Life has become more expensive in a lot of areas, it's not just Disney.

But really, if they were catering to the "top tier" then there wouldn't be moderate and value resorts, discounts, free dining, and $200 initial payments etc. WDW provides options for travelers of all different income levels.

Believe it or not the bottom rung of 'poor slobs' only accounts for ~20% of FL visitors, so extrapolate that to WDW and they are very much in the minority.

Edit: Here you (or anyone else interested) will find a gold mine of information on who is going to FL: http://www.visitflorida.org/resources/research/
It really is eye-opening/ enlightening.

But typically, the person you find vacationing in South Beach is different then the one vacationing in the Panhandle, in Palm Beach, in Clearwater, in the Keys, in Daytona, or in Marco Island. - Orlando inter laps a lot of these travelers those. You can find a super reasonable Florida vacay, or you can find a very expensive one...and everything in between.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I just don't see what you are saying. I see plenty of poor slobs at WDW still. They penny pinch elsewhere and go into debt to get their families to WDW because everybody MUST take their kids to WDW. Then they bring Subway and Doritos with them. Perhaps the latest batch of price increases will end this.

Just wondering how you can tell a " poor slob" from others in the parks?
I never bring food into the parks but can certainly understand why some would instead of spending 100 bucks for a lunch. Doesn't make them poor slobs in my book, just a little thrifty.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I'm not underestimating. I acknowledge there is an increase. I also acknowledge that cars and homes and many other things have increased well beyond inflation. And child care and school costs? Check out those. I've already mentioned that in a previous post. I don't think people were spending near $15k on child care and preschool in the 80s.
There also wasn't as many 2 parent working households back then. Things have changed and become more expensive than they used to be, it sucks, but it's an unfortunate fact.

There are a LOT more single parent households now.

 

[21stamps]

There are a LOT more single parent households now.

Yes. There are also a lot more 2 parent families with both parents working.

 

[Nubs70]

I'm sorry, but your economics are way off here. They are not alienating people from poor countries, they are literally pricing out the middle class, most of whom save and still choose to go (b/c it's tradition)...for now.

Edit: All I'm saying is - I get where people are upset about that, it's been stated on these boards over and over again.

WDW has gone from a middle to upperclass national demographic to a uppermiddle/upper class hemispheric demographic

 

[ToTBellHop]

Just wondering how you can tell a " poor slob" from others in the parks?
I never bring food into the parks but can certainly understand why some would instead of spending 100 bucks for a lunch. Doesn't make them poor slobs in my book, just a little thrifty.

The people washing their kids in drinking fountains and eating the Burger King they picked up on the way in. They then throw the empty bag on the ground. Disney has no need for them as the only money they pay is on tickets, not food or merch. Disney is clearly trying to price that crowd out and I don't personally have a problem with that.

 

[SorcererMC]

But that's just life.
How many people "used" to be able to purchase cars and finance them for 3-4 years. Now they are finance 6,7, and even 8 years. On a car! That's just one example.
Life has become more expensive in a lot of areas, it's not just Disney.

But really, if they were catering to the "top tier" then there wouldn't be moderate and value resorts, discounts, free dining, and $200 initial payments etc. WDW provides options for travelers of all different income levels.

But typically, the person you find vacationing in South Beach is different then the one vacationing in the Panhandle, in Palm Beach, in Clearwater, in the Keys, in Daytona, or in Marco Island. - Orlando inter laps a lot of these travelers those. You can find a super reasonable Florida vacay, or you can find a very expensive one...and everything in between.

I am not saying that WDW does not offer a variety of options for all income levels; I am referring to the strategy that Disney has been using to increase revenue....they are doing quite well to take advantage of the tourist boom while it lasts, 'make hay while the sun shines'.

It won't last.

 

[21stamps]

Believe it or not the bottom rung of 'poor slobs' only accounts for ~20% of FL visitors, so extrapolate that to WDW and they are very much in the minority.

Edit: Here you (or anyone else interested) will find a gold mine of information on who is going to FL: http://www.visitflorida.org/resources/research/
It really is eye-opening/ enlightening. Instead of relying on 'impressions', let's look at the facts presented.

This is Florida

 

[SorcererMC]

WDW has gone from a middle to upperclass national demographic to a uppermiddle/upper class hemispheric demographic

Yes, this is my point, thank you. Not just this hemisphere, but European travelers as well. Orlando is becoming a major shopping destination on par with Los Angeles, Las Vegas, London, and UAE. No joke.

 

[Nubs70]

Just wondering how you can tell a " poor slob" from others in the parks?
I never bring food into the parks but can certainly understand why some would instead of spending 100 bucks for a lunch. Doesn't make them poor slobs in my book, just a little thrifty.

Slobs are defined by behavior not financial behavior.

 

[ToTBellHop]

WDW has gone from a middle to upperclass national demographic to a uppermiddle/upper class hemispheric demographic

Someone must have told them there are enough people in these groups to sustain profit margins. The only problem is folks in that group don't want stagnant, dirty parks. They need impressive new rides STAT.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I know it's too late to not turn this thread into the same old Disney vs. Universal debate, but I would like to know this as well:

With the exception of the alligator tragedy, most of the recent bad news should affect WDW and Universal equally.

Hotel bookings throughout Orlando are down. If WDW is down, it seems highly likely that Universal is too.

 

[Nubs70]

Yes, this is my point, thank you. Not just this hemisphere, but European travelers as well. Orlando is becoming a major shopping destination on par with Los Angeles, Las Vegas, London, and UAE. No joke.

Yes, I was having trouble in trying to figure out how to include UK. Hemispheric plus Greenwich Mean?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

The people washing their kids in drinking fountains and eating the Burger King they picked up on the way in. Disney has no need for them as the only money they pay is on tickets, not food or merch. Disney is clearly trying to price that crowd out and I don't personally have a problem with that.

Have to disagree. Anyone trying to give their family a once in a lifetime trip, anyway they can, I'm all for it. Whether they bring food in or eat at Le Cellier is alright by me. That's what Disneyland was based on with Walt's vision from the beginning. Just because I am DVC and have been going for over 40 years now doesn't make myself better then anyone else paying to get in.
People washing kids in drinking fountains, I've never seen but if it happens, of course that shouldn't be allowed.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, this is my point, thank you. Not just this hemisphere, but European travelers as well. Orlando is becoming a major shopping destination on par with Los Angeles, Las Vegas, London, and UAE. No joke.

But it's not, and not trying to be. Orlando is a fun city, and has grown a lot, but tourist wise- It is a family destination. European high roller couples aren't spending their vacations in Orlando at theme parks.

I think you are forgetting Miami, and all of SoFla. It's kinda a popular spot for people from other countries.. Little bit anyway.lol.

 

[SorcererMC]

With the exception of the alligator tragedy, most of the recent bad news should affect WDW and Universal equally.

Hotel bookings throughout Orlando are down. If WDW is down, it seems highly likely that Universal is too.

I would agree with that, hypothetically, by virtue of the fact that most people going to Orlando go for 'theme parks' and not just WDW. But it has been the Disney name in the news. I certainly don't know enough about UO's demographics to say one way or the other how they would be impacted. And I'm still looking for solid info on Orlando. Haven't checked out that comptroller report yet, getting into taxes and hotel occupancy is a bit more than what I typically look at, which is state GDP.