Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[rob0519]

If they are having problems with the Holiday season it's probably because they underestimated the draw of the Osbourne lights, Oopsie a blind mouse could have seen that one coming, Without the lights there is no reason to suffer the crowded parks to see the minimal decor that Disney has put up the last 2-3 years For crying out loud they cut the wreath and colored lights on the contemporary last year.

Agreed. We went last year at Christmas just because I was the only person in the family not to see the Osborne Lights. Man, the Studios were packed for that. I had not been to WDW for the holidays since about 2001 and I was absolutely disappointed with the Christmas decorations in both the parks and the resorts. It was just sad based on previous standards.

 

[ford91exploder]

Back then only resort guests could enter the resort. People tend to conveniently forget that prices have raised, but there are a lot more options as well. Back then it was not a "complete vacation" for most.

The resorts weren't reasonably priced, neither were the tickets. They "appear" reasonable now. Especially when you factor in that "value" resorts didn't even exist- and that Disney does offer vacations at several different price points. They also only ask for a $200 deposit and you have a year before final payment is due if you need to save for it. Also, the vacation savings account which someone could choose to assist in their savings and get money back for it.

Is WDW more expensive than those years when you apply inflation? Yes. It is.
But so is pretty much everything else.
It's also in higher demand now.

You are underestimating the price increases over the years, @ParentsOf4 noted when he was in school a 3 day ticket was 35 bucks, That was about 11 hours of work at the minimum wage at the time. Today that same 3 day ticket requires 37.5 hours of work at 7.75 per hour.

 

[ford91exploder]

Agreed. We went last year at Christmas just because I was the only person in the family not to see the Osborne Lights. Man, the Studios were packed for that. I had not been to WDW for the holidays since about 2001 and I was absolutely disappointed with the Christmas decorations in both the parks and the resorts. It was just sad based on previous standards.

I too remember when the holiday decorations were let's just say 'over the top'. Now it's how little can we do and STILL get away with it, For crying out loud TDL/TDS has amazing christmas decorations and their tradition is Shinto not Judeo-Christian!!!!

 

[ford91exploder]

I think more accurately, this is Universal:
View attachment 149930

No THIS is Today's Disney

 

[Disneyhead'71]

No THIS is Today's Disney

Now, now. Play nice.

More like

 

[Hakunamatata]

I have to give credit where credit is due. I figured you all to have roles this out by now.

 

[21stamps]

What are you talking about? Hotel Guard booths are new - 1990s, you used to be able to drive right in, and day guests were encouraged to eat at the hotels.Yes, you would have to pay to park but it wasnt restricted

Ok I can't find any info online, but someone here must know for sure. I called my mother out of curiosity. She said --she remembers having to show an ID card to get on the monorail and boats between the resort and the park. When I was young, so 1978-1990ish

Maybe we are totally wrong.lol

 

[21stamps]

You are underestimating the price increases over the years, @ParentsOf4 noted when he was in school a 3 day ticket was 35 bucks, That was about 11 hours of work at the minimum wage at the time. Today that same 3 day ticket requires 37.5 hours of work at 7.75 per hour.

I'm not underestimating. I acknowledge there is an increase. I also acknowledge that cars and homes and many other things have increased well beyond inflation. And child care and school costs? Check out those. I've already mentioned that in a previous post. I don't think people were spending near $15k on child care and preschool in the 80s.
There also wasn't as many 2 parent working households back then. Things have changed and become more expensive than they used to be, it sucks, but it's an unfortunate fact.

 

[No Name]

I wonder how the place down the street that everyone puts on such a high pedestal is doing. Anyone have any numbers, or at least felt any crowd difference, at Universal?

Seriously, it is tough to tolerate the level of bias toward Universal on here. I suppose when you study Disney's every move 365 days a year, it can seem like nothing new is happening or that the place is rotting away.

Oh and certain "old" things make the place special, and part of the magic would be destroyed by replacing things with newer and more technologically advanced stuff.

WDW:

Universal:

So Disney is better for families than Universal? I agree. That's a good analogy.

I read through the last couple pages and I have question-
In June people were complaining that the parks weren't open late enough for the crowd levels. (MK closing at midnight)

So is all of this "Disney is going out of business!!!" "Projects will be stopped." stuff all because 4th of July crowds were lower this year?

There were claims that attendance was lower before July 4th. So I wouldn't say it was first noticed with lower July 4th crowds. I think it's just that the fourth of July is a very comparable day, since people (like Steve) go on that day each year and can feel the difference in crowd level.

 

[hopemax]

Ok I can't find any info online, but someone here must know for sure. I called my mother out of curiosity. She said --she remembers having to show an ID card to get on the monorail and boats between the resort and the park. When I was young, so 1978-1990ish

Maybe we are totally wrong.lol

In ye olden days, transportation was a separate charge. So resort guests would show their ID to ride for free. However, other guests could purchase or use a transportation ticket from their ticket book to ride. http://vintagedisneylandtickets.blogspot.com/2011/09/walt-disney-world-transportation.html

 

[21stamps]

In ye olden days, transportation was a separate charge. So resort guests would show their ID to ride for free. However, other guests could purchase or use a transportation ticket from their ticket book to ride. http://vintagedisneylandtickets.blogspot.com/2011/09/walt-disney-world-transportation.html

Oh wow, that's a cool page!!

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not in fact just imagining things!
Also, my son always refers to my childhood as "back in the olden days.." So thanks again for reiterating that I'm super old.

 

[SorcererMC]

I know it's too late to not turn this thread into the same old Disney vs. Universal debate, but I would like to know this as well:

Anyone have any numbers, or at least felt any crowd difference, at Universal?

 

[EpcotCenter82]

Ok I can't find any info online, but someone here must know for sure. I called my mother out of curiosity. She said --she remembers having to show an ID card to get on the monorail and boats between the resort and the park. When I was young, so 1978-1990ish

Maybe we are totally wrong.lol

Yes, you are correct. I stayed at the Contemporary Resort many times in the 1970's. There was a turnstile at the entrance to the monorail station on the 4th floor. Every member of your party was given a paper resort ID card which you had to present to the CM at the turnstile in order to access the escalator which goes up to the monorail platform. It was the same at the Poly and at the MK station. If you did not have a resort ID, you were not allowed to access the resort monorail loop. There was also a ticket booth near the Contemporary monorail station which sold discounted tickets for resorts guests. I do not remember if you had to present the resort ID for the boats and other watercraft.

 

[SorcererMC]

There once was a time when WDW really was much more affordable.

I can't help but feel like there is something inherently wrong about WDW going from an American vacation mainstay to an international destination that isn't affordable for most Americans. Sure, no one is 'entitled' to a WDW vacation, but for Disney to alienate what was once their core customer base? It's going to take a lot to turn that around since it didn't happen overnight...and w/ their intl tourists on the decline, they'll have to take domestic tourists into consideration.

Disney used to be a trend-setter, and now they are just a trend-follower. I want to see them be an industry leader, and act like it. Despite their current challenges, I think there is an opportunity here for them to tack and change course. I hope that the next CEO whoever it is, 'gets it'....but I won't hold my breath.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot about Shanghai Disneyland.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I can't help but feel like there is something inherently wrong about WDW going from an American vacation mainstay to an international destination that isn't affordable for most Americans. Sure, no one is 'entitled' to a WDW vacation, but for Disney to alienate what was once their core customer base? It's going to take a lot to turn that around since it didn't happen overnight...and w/ their intl tourists on the decline, they'll have to take domestic tourists into consideration.

Disney used to be a trend-setter, and now they are just a trend-follower. I want to see them be an industry leader, and act like it. Despite their current challenges, I think there is an opportunity here for them to tack and change course. I hope that the next CEO whoever it is, 'gets it'....but I won't hold my breath.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot about Shanghai Disneyland.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but anecdotally I'm confident that MOST guests are still American.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, you are correct. I stayed at the Contemporary Resort many times in the 1970's. There was a turnstile at the entrance to the monorail station on the 4th floor. Every member of your party was given a paper resort ID card which you had to present to the CM at the turnstile in order to access the escalator which goes up to the monorail platform. It was the same at the Poly and at the MK station. If you did not have a resort ID, you were not allowed to access the resort monorail loop. There was also a ticket booth near the Contemporary monorail station which sold discounted tickets for resorts guests. I do not remember if you had to present the resort ID for the boats and other watercraft.

Whew, I'm not the only "old" person here

 

[No Name]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but anecdotally I'm confident that MOST guests are still American.

LOL yes.

And if anything, the higher prices are only alienating people from poorer countries. There are not many countries with the average person in better financial condition than the US.

So it'd be very difficult for them to alienate American guests by raising prices.

 

[spaceghost]

Hmmm... if only there was a site that tracked crowd levels... Has anyone invoked the name of @lentesta into this conversation? Maybe if we say his name three times fast while riding the Haunted Mansion, he'll magically appear and swap heads with us (and tell us if crowds are down 30% year over year)? From what I can see of recent reports on TouringPlans, crowd levels compared to last year, as based on wait times, are not down significantly. Wait times and actual attendance are two different things, of course.

 

[ToTBellHop]

LOL yes.

And if anything, the higher prices are only alienating people from poorer countries. There are not many countries with the average person in better financial condition than the US.

So it'd be very difficult for them to alienate American guests by raising prices.

More likely, American guests just look to save elsewhere. Thus the proliferation of value hotels and the popularity of staying off site since everywhere has a free shuttle now. I feel like I see lists of how to "do WDW cheaply" daily on Facebook. Because that's the goal of a lot of Americans. Do Disney. Because it is an American tradition.

 

[SorcererMC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but anecdotally I'm confident that MOST guests are still American.

Yes, most are. But Disney's strategy reflects them catering to the top tier of Americans and intl tourists b/c they spend so much more. It's great for business, and I don't even really take issue with that. But to think of how many Americans used to be able to afford it and now they can't? Sad indeed.