Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[seascape]

And how do you prove transmission in a court of law? I can't see a path to conviction here.

The lawyer in New York did infect others. At the start of an outbreak it is easy to prove who started it. However, you are right after many people have it, it is just about impossible to prove who gave it to you. But, that does not mean a law imposing major penalties would not help encourage fools from doing the right thing.

 

[marni1971]

Not so easy right now over here - if I cancel now I would lose my total airfare as there is not a cancellation policy in place with Virgin at all atm. Only way I can get that back is if the FCO put in place restrictions to fly to the US - its just a bloody nightmare.

I’d carry on as normal. Try and look forward to it and deal with any official changes or restrictions if and when they happen.

Did you book the whole package with Virgin? Or flights on a credit card?

 

[Hakunamatata]

Look what happened to China when they didn't contain.

I guess my point is, did we ever get valid verifiable information out of China?

 

[lisa12000]

I’d carry on as normal. Try and look forward to it and deal with any official changes or restrictions if and when they happen.

Did you book the whole package with Virgin? Or flights on a credit card?

No unfortunately flight only with Virgin - the rest with WDTC (which is fine I know I can get refunded that part especially if they close). I guess its just the uncertainty and as you know its 24/7 wall to wall apocalyptic/doomsday scenarios atm and it really affects your perception of whats going on.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Here in Florida, The Players Championship is about to begin. For those who don't know about the location, it's in Ponte Vedra (just south of Jacksonville) and hosted by the Marriott Sawgrass hotel. The course is just behind the main hotel building. I was doing some contract work there today. All the players and their families plus tons of fans are crowding in there (took an extra 15 minutes to drive down A1A this morning at 7am!). Lots and lots of travelers from all over the world. Seems like this would be something on the same level or worse than being in a theme park. Look at the way those people are all packed together:

P.S. I walked out the front entrance just as Michelle Wie was summoning her car from valet. I did not realize how tall she is! Almost as tall as me.

P.P.S. The idiot valet must not have known who she was because he asked her name to find the key. She said, "Wie. W. I. E."
Come on! You're front of house. Learn the top players names so you don't look like a doofus!

P.P.P.S. If I didn't get Coronavirus today it will be a miracle. People from all over the world shared the same air as me, and I heard a number of coughs! So...about to find out how good my immune system is!

Vader, you are an excellent test case! Please report back and post here in two weeks and tell us how you are feeling!!!

 

[baymenxpac]

I have to admit reading these threads and on other boards is driving me mental, and actually raising my anxiety levels tbh - I genuinely wish that I knew exactly what I was doing in April (im due to travel from UK on 26th) rather than having this sliver of hope that things may get better before then! I also work for an exam board in the UK so im stressed about our summer exams as well and the effect it has on my income . Holiday lost I can cope with, income lost I cant so im almost hoping now that WDW shuts asap, I can cancel and get refunded my money as much as possible and that we go into lockdown in the UK asap so by exam time some semblance of normality will come back - yep feeling rather depressed this morning.

okay, so this is the real human toll of coronavirus for the majority of the population. for most, the panic is the main problem, not the virus itself.

first, there is a HUGE difference between the public and private sectors on this. the public sector (like the CDC) is giving you this advice: wash your hands for 20 seconds, try to refrain from touching your face, and -- for immuno-compromised people -- to limit your interaction with large groups.

the private sector (like those who run professional sports, festivals and conferences -- like SXSW and ultra --, etc.) is concerned only about LIABILITY and PR. in other words, they just don't want to be in this headline, "10,000 attendees at [EVENT] all exposed to coronavirus," and the ensuing lawsuits that would undoubtedly emanate from that.

i live in new york. my brother-in-law works on the long island railroad, which moves hundreds of thousands of people every single day back and forth from manhattan. does anyone really think that there wasn't a dude who works in an office somewhere that went to china in early january, was exposed to the coronavirus, came back to the states, road the railroad while sneezing on their hands and then touching the seat, the grab bars, etc.?

now, because we do not have any vaccine (like the flu shot) or anti-viral (like tamiflu for influenza), we should try to contain the best we can to help protect others who are at risk (just like we should ALL get a flu shot every single fall). but there is a certain degree here of closing the barn door after the horse has already left. it's possible (and frankly, likely) that someone you know or you yourself have had this thing, been either asymptomatic or felt like you had a mild cold, and recovered without issue. for the vast majority of people. even contracting COVID-19 will mean mild-to-no symptoms and a full recovery.

the death rate (and this is something the president TRIED to articulate, but couldn't) is artificially high because of the sample size of people we're testing. the people we're testing are people who are sick. so of the people who had presented symptoms AND are sick AND are tested is between 2% and 3.4%. the likely number is far lower: less than 1% (like the new england journal of medicine has said). that's the rate in south korea, because they've tested a lot more people.

also, please remember, and i say this as someone who went to journalism school, works with journalists every single day, and reveres real, hard-hitting reporting: FEAR = RATINGS to the media. even the reputable media is dependent on ads and clicks to make money. anything COVID-19 right now is the equivalent of ratings/web traffic gold. you'll see a lot of headlines, you'll read a lot of actual "fake news" (the real kind, not just stories certain politicians don't like about themselves). unless it is coming from the CDC or the WHO, take it with the heftiest grain of salt.

so, if you are: 1) 70-years-old or older, 2) have an existing chronic lung condition, and/or 3) are otherwise immuno-compromised (are pregnant, recently had chemo/radiation, et al), then i would probably limit interaction with large groups of people.

if you are healthy, take your precautions (WASH YOUR HANDS!) and live your life.

 

[esskay]

Honestly I'd ignore people telling you to cancel it right now, simply because theres too many unknowns to make an informed decision.

Also for many people cancelling out of an abundance of caution, depending on your insurance you won't get a refund (and if you do have that option then why would you not wait until closer to go down that route?).

If the airline cancels your flight, they have to refund. If disney cancels your hotel booking and/or tickets, they refund.

Worst case scenario you get to 24 hours before going and get told its cancelled, and you'll get a refund.

I'm flying out the 1st week of May. I'm not cancelling and I'm still planning as normal. Until I'm told otherwise I'm going to go to my home across the pond!

Oh and take a break from the news and forums for your own sanity!

 

[Hakunamatata]

No unfortunately flight only with Virgin - the rest with WDTC (which is fine I know I can get refunded that part especially if they close). I guess its just the uncertainty and as you know its 24/7 wall to wall apocalyptic/doomsday scenarios atm and it really affects your perception of whats going on.

If you or your traveling party doesnt have any pre-existing conditions that would compound an infection by corona (or any other cold or flu virus) and taking necessary precautions while traveling (regular hand washing, etc) then you should be fine traveling.

 

[lisa12000]

okay, so this is the real human toll of coronavirus for the majority of the population. for most, the panic is the main problem, not the virus itself.

first, there is a HUGE difference between the public and private sectors on this. the public sector (like the CDC) is giving you this advice: wash your hands for 20 seconds, try to refrain from touching your face, and -- for immuno-compromised people -- to limit your interaction with large groups.

the private sector (like those who run professional sports, festivals and conferences -- like SXSW and ultra --, etc.) is concerned only about LIABILITY and PR. in other words, they just don't want to be in this headline, "10,000 attendees at [EVENT] all exposed to coronavirus," and the ensuing lawsuits that would undoubtedly emanate from that.

i live in new york. my brother-in-law works on the long island railroad, which moves hundreds of thousands of people every single day back and forth from manhattan. does anyone really think that there wasn't a dude who works in an office somewhere that went to china in early january, was exposed to the coronavirus, came back to the states, road the railroad while sneezing on their hands and then touching the seat, the grab bars, etc.?

now, because we do not have any vaccine (like the flu shot) or anti-viral (like tamiflu for influenza), we should try to contain the best we can to help protect others who are at risk (just like we should ALL get a flu shot every single fall). but there is a certain degree here of closing the barn door after the horse has already left. it's possible (and frankly, likely) that someone you know or you yourself have had this thing, been either asymptomatic or felt like you had a mild cold, and recovered without issue. for the vast majority of people. even contracting COVID-19 will mean mild-to-no symptoms and a full recovery.

the death rate (and this is something the president TRIED to articulate, but couldn't) is artificially high because of the sample size of people we're testing. the people we're testing are people who are sick. so of the people who had presented symptoms AND are sick AND are tested is between 2% and 3.4%. the likely number is far lower: less than 1% (like the new england journal of medicine has said). that's the rate in south korea, because they've tested a lot more people.

also, please remember, and i say this as someone who went to journalism school, works with journalists every single day, and reveres real, hard-hitting reporting: FEAR = RATINGS to the media. even the reputable media is dependent on ads and clicks to make money. anything COVID-19 right now is the equivalent of ratings/web traffic gold. you'll see a lot of headlines, you'll read a lot of actual "fake news" (the real kind, not just stories certain politicians don't like about themselves). unless it is coming from the CDC or the WHO, take it with the heftiest grain of salt.

so, if you are: 1) 70-years-old or older, 2) have an existing chronic lung condition, and/or 3) are otherwise immuno-compromised (are pregnant, recently had chemo/radiation, et al), then i would probably limit interaction with large groups of people.

if you are healthy, take your precautions (WASH YOUR HANDS!) and live your life.

Thank you for this - the laugh is im a sociology tutor by trade so know all about moral panics/news values etc in the media so I should know better!! its just that I have so much to lose and I worry that the constant panic and hysteria will make governments overreact before necessary and make things 10 x worse for people. I tried to say to someone yesterday that there are the deaths caused bt the virus and the deaths caused by the actions taken to quell the virus (as in worsening mental health/ economic deprivation/ high stress levels making people ill) and its what balance you take unfortunately. Thing is im really good at giving people advice about this but not so good at taking it myself.

 

[lisa12000]

If you or your traveling party doesnt have any pre-existing conditions that would compound an infection by corona (or any other cold or flu virus) and taking necessary precautions while traveling (regular hand washing, etc) then you should be fine traveling.

Nope all fit and healthy and (fairly haha) young. We dont even have a case at all in our town and 2 in the whole of our county!

 

[Bob Harlem]

Vader, you are an excellent test case! Please report back and post here in two weeks and tell us how you are feeling!!!

The Arnold Palmer International at Bay Hill was last week, and they use the Universal Parking Garages as parking for it since its so close, and it had a ton of folks also.

 

[seascape]

Not so easy right now over here - if I cancel now I would lose my total airfare as there is not a cancellation policy in place with Virgin at all atm. Only way I can get that back is if the FCO put in place restrictions to fly to the US - its just a bloody nightmare.

I certainly understand your frustration. We live in the Northeast and have a flight to Orlando in April too. My wife was really concerned do I cancelled it and was going to drive. She then got upset because 18 hours in a car to Orlando is stressful and after Disney we have a 2.5 hour drive to Southwest Florida for the second part of our trip and the drive home would be 20 hours. Anyway, long story short, we were lucky. I saved $50.00 on rebooking our plane, but this time with insurance and $60.00 worth of points on our rental car. We have to go to our condo regardless as we have to inspect it after our renter leaves. If we didn't have the condo, I wouldn't go because of the risk of having to be quarantined in Florida.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

okay, so this is the real human toll of coronavirus for the majority of the population. for most, the panic is the main problem, not the virus itself.

first, there is a HUGE difference between the public and private sectors on this. the public sector (like the CDC) is giving you this advice: wash your hands for 20 seconds, try to refrain from touching your face, and -- for immuno-compromised people -- to limit your interaction with large groups.

the private sector (like those who run professional sports, festivals and conferences -- like SXSW and ultra --, etc.) is concerned only about LIABILITY and PR. in other words, they just don't want to be in this headline, "10,000 attendees at [EVENT] all exposed to coronavirus," and the ensuing lawsuits that would undoubtedly emanate from that.

i live in new york. my brother-in-law works on the long island railroad, which moves hundreds of thousands of people every single day back and forth from manhattan. does anyone really think that there wasn't a dude who works in an office somewhere that went to china in early january, was exposed to the coronavirus, came back to the states, road the railroad while sneezing on their hands and then touching the seat, the grab bars, etc.?

now, because we do not have any vaccine (like the flu shot) or anti-viral (like tamiflu for influenza), we should try to contain the best we can to help protect others who are at risk (just like we should ALL get a flu shot every single fall). but there is a certain degree here of closing the barn door after the horse has already left. it's possible (and frankly, likely) that someone you know or you yourself have had this thing, been either asymptomatic or felt like you had a mild cold, and recovered without issue. for the vast majority of people. even contracting COVID-19 will mean mild-to-no symptoms and a full recovery.

the death rate is artificially high because of the sample size of people we're testing. the people we're testing are people who are sick. so of the people who had presented symptoms AND are sick AND are tested is between 2% and 3.4%. the likely number is far lower: less than 1% (like the new england journal of medicine has said). that's the rate in south korea, because they've tested a lot more people.

also, please remember, and i say this as someone who went to journalism school, works with journalists every single day, and reveres real, hard-hitting reporting: FEAR = RATINGS to the media. even the reputable media is dependent on ads and clicks to make money. anything COVID-19 right now is the equivalent of ratings/web traffic gold. you'll see a lot of headlines, you'll read a lot of actual "fake news" (the real kind, not just stories certain politicians don't like about themselves). unless it is coming from the CDC or the WHO, take it with the heftiest grain of salt.

so, if you are: 1) 70-years-old or older, 2) have an existing chronic lung condition, and/or 3) are otherwise immuno-compromised (are pregnant, recently had chemo/radiation, et al), then i would probably limit interaction with large groups of people.

if you are healthy, take your precautions (WASH YOUR HANDS!) and live your life.

Very well said. And while I realize how important freedom of speech is, there's been massive irresponsibility on the part of the media and it seems to be getting worse. At some point, accountability needs to come into play.

 

[lisa12000]

Heres a controversial one - do you think its time we move on from number of cases per area and look at death rates? for example, we know its going to spread if you look at S. Koreas number of cases. you'd be horrified - then you look at their death rates and see its not much worse than the flu rates (not saying its just flu btw!!). I know we need to be mindful of vulnerable people but the advice will be the same whether there is 100 cases or 1000 - not saying its okay but I feel its the reporting of the rise of number of cases thats causing the panic rather than the dangerousness of it.

 

[LukeS7]

Are the numbers for the Ebola line just Americans? Because for sure there were more infections and more deaths worldwide, with that one.

Yup. All statistics are for the US only for the years listed in that photo (That disclaimer is also in the first line of my original post)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Heres a controversial one - do you think its time we move on from number of cases per area and look at death rates? for example, we know its going to spread if you look at S. Koreas number of cases. you'd be horrified - then you look at their death rates and see its not much worse than the flu rates (not saying its just flu btw!!). I know we need to be mindful of vulnerable people but the advice will be the same whether there is 100 cases or 1000 - not saying its okay but I feel its the reporting of the rise of number of cases thats causing the panic rather than the dangerousness of it.

I really think failure to emphasize exactly who will experience severe symptoms vs. who won't and the real percentages of each are a huge contributor to the panic. Not to mention the media's tendency to lean more heavily towards generating revenue than reporting actual facts, and people's lack of ability to fact-check...both contribute to the spread of falsehoods and panic.

 

[LukeS7]

Heres a controversial one - do you think its time we move on from number of cases per area and look at death rates? for example, we know its going to spread if you look at S. Koreas number of cases. you'd be horrified - then you look at their death rates and see its not much worse than the flu rates (not saying its just flu btw!!). I know we need to be mindful of vulnerable people but the advice will be the same whether there is 100 cases or 1000 - not saying its okay but I feel its the reporting of the rise of number of cases thats causing the panic rather than the dangerousness of it.

The problem is you can also look at Italy's numbers and get a fatality rate of 6.2% which is far far worse than the flu. I know South Korea has done widespread testing and thus has a larger sample size, but the mere fact that the testing is so widespread is allowing people to get care early on and probably helped them keep their fatality rate as low as it is.

 

[LukeS7]

This is exactly why you need to shut down now and not later. Italy waited to shutdown till it was too late.

I wholeheartedly agree, but unfortunately we're not currently. Also, widespread testing is needed. I find it funny how people keep using the death rate in South Korea as a reason to not worry when their death rate is still 7 times worse than the flu.

 

[FrenchDisney1985]

Heres a controversial one - do you think its time we move on from number of cases per area and look at death rates? for example, we know its going to spread if you look at S. Koreas number of cases. you'd be horrified - then you look at their death rates and see its not much worse than the flu rates (not saying its just flu btw!!). I know we need to be mindful of vulnerable people but the advice will be the same whether there is 100 cases or 1000 - not saying its okay but I feel its the reporting of the rise of number of cases thats causing the panic rather than the dangerousness of it.

I honestly wouldn’t look into anything too much at the moment as too many unknowns. I’m flying from the UK also on 26 April and until either the parks close or flights are restricted I’m not worrying too much. In the last month alone I’ve had family members skiing in south of France, friends go to football in Milan and work in a building where people have been quarantined while waiting for results after travelling and as of yet no one I know has any symptoms or been impacted by their actions. Things will more than likely get worse before they get better but no one can say with any certainty when that will be.

 

[Nubs70]

Heres a controversial one - do you think its time we move on from number of cases per area and look at death rates? for example, we know its going to spread if you look at S. Koreas number of cases. you'd be horrified - then you look at their death rates and see its not much worse than the flu rates (not saying its just flu btw!!). I know we need to be mindful of vulnerable people but the advice will be the same whether there is 100 cases or 1000 - not saying its okay but I feel its the reporting of the rise of number of cases thats causing the panic rather than the dangerousness of it.

Be careful of extrapolating, some people don't like that.