Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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gmajew

Premium Member
The loans could start tomorrow if needed. Banks would fight each other to lend the money as long as the government is guaranteeing repayment.

Much better than cutting payroll taxes for workers. You don’t pay payroll tax on $0 when you don’t get paid for 2 weeks or longer. Not very well thought out.

They won’t as even SBA loans banks don’t want to back to most small business. They won’t loan to those that were barely hanging on. They won’t do it. I have been in this business for 25 years those that are just making it won’t make it through this. They will be the ones forgotten.
 

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
Sorry to bring up facts but all of you realize the normal every year flu has killed 16,000 people already this year? https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/flu-cases-near-30-million-in-the-us-cdc-reports

Why don't we go nuts every year and shut down everything until the flu goes away? Why we don't is that it is economically crippling.

The death told is no where near that high for the new strain which is all it is. Here's a decent story with some facts. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-flu.html

Because there's a vaccine for the flu, we have a good idea how many people will die of the flu and how deaths can be minimized. By all accounts, the death rate for this is many times higher than the flu and is far more easily spread.


Even in the article you post, it is clear there are many unknowns. To quote:

On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 percent of people who become infected. The 1918 flu had an unusually high fatality rate, around 2 percent. Because it was so contagious, that flu killed tens of millions of people.

Early estimates of the coronavirus death rate from China, the center of the outbreak, were about 2 percent. But a new report on 1,099 cases from many parts of China, published on Friday in The New England Journal of Medicine, finds a lower rate: 1.4 percent.


Whether it's 2% or 1.4%, that's many many times higher than how many people die from the flu, even though it's still a small percentage.
 

gmajew

Premium Member
The loans could start tomorrow if needed. Banks would fight each other to lend the money as long as the government is guaranteeing repayment.

Much better than cutting payroll taxes for workers. You don’t pay payroll tax on $0 when you don’t get paid for 2 weeks or longer. Not very well thought out.

The idea about the payroll tax holiday is hoping those working spend that extra money back into the economy which would then allow business etc to hire and bring people back. It is not a solution for that cures everything but it does help injecting cash back into the economy.

and hopefully the companies use that money to invest back in their business by creating more jobs.

Yet not the entire country is on lockdown or business being screwed so this would and should be onky for those areas actually hurt....
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
They won’t as even SBA loans banks don’t want to back to most small business. They won’t loan to those that were barely hanging on. They won’t do it. I have been in this business for 25 years those that are just making it won’t make it through this. They will be the ones forgotten.
I don’t have all the answers and I don’t think every business can be saved. I have seen government backed loans work to finance projects that otherwise banks would never touch. If a bank knows they are guaranteed to not lose the money lent (and guaranteed by the federal government) they have nothing to lose. If only a fraction of the businesses actually fail then the government is not on the hook for all of the loans. Let’s say 25% of the money lent goes to businesses that fail that means 75% of the loans are just repaid by the business and only 25% of the money ultimately comes from the federal government. Much better than having the government just give away 100% of the money or even worse do nothing.

if we bail out the airlines again and cruise or travel companies why not other businesses?
 

gmajew

Premium Member
Because there's a vaccine for the flu, we have a good idea how many people will die of the flu and how deaths can be minimized. By all accounts, the death rate for this is many times higher than the flu and is far more easily spread.


Even in the article you post, it is clear there are many unknowns. To quote:

On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 percent of people who become infected. The 1918 flu had an unusually high fatality rate, around 2 percent. Because it was so contagious, that flu killed tens of millions of people.

Early estimates of the coronavirus death rate from China, the center of the outbreak, were about 2 percent. But a new report on 1,099 cases from many parts of China, published on Friday in The New England Journal of Medicine, finds a lower rate: 1.4 percent.


Whether it's 2% or 1.4%, that's many many times higher than how many people die from the flu, even though it's still a small percentage.

Yet we are all forgetting not all cases have been accounted for so the death rate is actually lower....

I don’t usually agree with tv dr but what he says is so right.

 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Here in Florida, The Players Championship is about to begin. For those who don't know about the location, it's in Ponte Vedra (just south of Jacksonville) and hosted by the Marriott Sawgrass hotel. The course is just behind the main hotel building. I was just doing some contract work there today. All the players and their families plus tons of fans are crowding in there (took an extra 15 minutes to drive down A1A this morning at 7am!). Lots and lots of travelers from all over the world. Seems like this would be something on the same level or worse than being in a theme park. Look at the way those people are all packed together:

new-17-16-ehrmann.jpg


P.S. I walked out the front entrance just as Michelle Wie was summoning her car from valet. I did not realize how tall she is! Almost as tall as me.

P.P.S. The idiot valet must not have known who she was because he asked her name to find the key. She said, "Wie. W. I. E."
Come on! You're front of house. Learn the top players names so you don't look like a doofus! :rolleyes:

P.P.P.S. If I didn't get Coronavirus today it will be a miracle. People from all over the world shared the same air as me, and I heard a number of coughs! So...about to find out how good my immune system is!
How warm was it?
 

gmajew

Premium Member
I don’t have all the answers and I don’t think every business can be saved. I have seen government backed loans work to finance projects that otherwise banks would never touch. If a bank knows they are guaranteed to not lose the money lent (and guaranteed by the federal government) they have nothing to lose. If only a fraction of the businesses actually fail then the government is not on the hook for all of the loans. Let’s say 25% of the money lent goes to businesses that fail that means 75% of the loans are just repaid by the business and only 25% of the money ultimately comes from the federal government. Much better than having the government just give away 100% of the money or even worse do nothing.

if we bail out the airlines again and cruise or travel companies why not other businesses?

oh I agree if we bail them out we bail out everyone. But this cannot drag weeks or months to get done and the government don’t move that fast
 

techgeek

Well-Known Member
If you went to virtual queue only and set the rate of return times so that there was never a bottleneck where a crowd was standing still close together, you could deal with the spacing. Would have to be combined with cutting ride capacity to provide separation between parties. Your traveling party is near each other all of the time so it doesn't matter if they are sitting right next to each other on the ride.

I’m sure there has been lots of heated discussion in Disney management meetings this week... and maybe lots of wheels are in motion behind the scenes for a massive response... but the lack of messaging, action, and leadership from the leader in hospitality has been disappointing. Other segments of the economy are already rapidly adapting. My email box has been overflowing today with mitigation and adaptation announcements. The perception is becoming that Disney isn’t going to try at all to get ahead of this, but merely be content to ride the crowds as hard as possible until they’re forced to call it off.

I like the idea of a hail-mary play to technology... virtual queues, wide scale crowd management... to achieve social distancing needs while filling in with pop up entertainment options to help off-set lost capacity. Yeah, they’d spend a ton more on labor... but that would enable a double win of keeping people’s hours and paychecks intact in desperate times, and possibly averting a full park closure. Take a 50% capacity hit if you have to, and pull out all the stops to keep things as clean and well managed as you can.

If there was one company that could muster the resources to give it a shot, it’s Disney... and if successful it could be their finest hour. But it would take an all-in commitment. Put the company on the line with an effort equal to the dream of building EPCOT in the first place, because it truly is rapidly getting to that point...
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Sorry to bring up facts but all of you realize the normal every year flu has killed 16,000 people already this year? https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/flu-cases-near-30-million-in-the-us-cdc-reports

Why don't we go nuts every year and shut down everything until the flu goes away? Why we don't is that it is economically crippling.

The death told is no where near that high for the new strain which is all it is. Here's a decent story with some facts. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-flu.html
The flu season started in October. Not a valid comparison. Come back in 6 months.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The idea about the payroll tax holiday is hoping those working spend that extra money back into the economy which would then allow business etc to hire and bring people back. It is not a solution for that cures everything but it does help injecting cash back into the economy.

and hopefully the companies use that money to invest back in their business by creating more jobs.

Yet not the entire country is on lockdown or business being screwed so this would and should be onky for those areas actually hurt....
Its a windfall for some people but doesn‘t help a lot of others. The biggest risk is hourly workers with no paid sick leave continue to show up for work even when sick because they can‘t afford to not work. That makes the disease spread worse and more people get sick.

If bars and restaurants are closed or people are afraid to go out in public there won’t be any trickle down from lower payroll taxes. It’s a huge cost with poor bang for the buck.
 

gmajew

Premium Member
Its a windfall for some people but doesn‘t help a lot of others. The biggest risk is hourly workers with no paid sick leave continue to show up for work even when sick because they can‘t afford to not work. That makes the disease spread worse and more people get sick.

If bars and restaurants are closed or people are afraid to go out in public there won’t be any trickle down from lower payroll taxes. It’s a huge cost with poor bang for the buck.
Yes but if it goes the entire year those lower wage workers will get the benefit of people going out and spending money.

You have got to attack the economic Problem in stages....

immediate - pay for those not going to be able to work.

next - small business bailouts or funding of some sort.

longer - money back into economy to stimulate after a two week or more lost of gdp.
this would be the payroll tax holiday as it will put every money into the economy for months and kick start growth again in all segments. Due to consumer spending.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
The biggest risk is hourly workers with no paid sick leave continue to show up for work even when sick because they can‘t afford to not work. That makes the disease spread worse and more people get sick.

In the task force press briefing today, VP Pence stated that either through legislation or executive order that hourly workers would be given paid leave to stay home with symptoms and for as long as they need if they test positive.

I agree that this is a huge risk and I 100% support anything the administration does to give paid leave to those workers to make sure that they can avoid spreading the virus while not having to worry about paying the rent.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Yes but if it goes the entire year those lower wage workers will get the benefit of people going out and spending money.

You have got to attack the economic Problem in stages....

immediate - pay for those not going to be able to work.

next - small business bailouts or funding of some sort.

longer - money back into economy to stimulate after a two week or more lost of gdp.
this would be the payroll tax holiday as it will put every money into the economy for months and kick start growth again in all segments. Due to consumer spending.
Agreed. I think starting with the payroll tax thing is putting the cart before the horse. Start with the immediate need. Address the major health issue. Then when the dust settles if we are stuck in a longer term recession (possible but not guaranteed to happen) then start with more traditional economic stimulus. I get that politics get in the way in an election year, but this shouldn’t be a political issue. People will get sick and die and limiting both of those things should be the top concern of the government. The best way to revive the stock market and fight off a long term economic downturn is to tackle this virus aggressively and end the crisis as quickly as possible. That starts with mass testing, clear and easy to follow instructions on what all people need to do and most importantly get people to follow the quarantine if sick and not be as likely to infect others.
 

gmajew

Premium Member
Agreed. I think starting with the payroll tax thing is putting the cart before the horse. Start with the immediate need. Address the major health issue. Then when the dust settles if we are stuck in a longer term recession (possible but not guaranteed to happen) then start with more traditional economic stimulus. I get that politics get in the way in an election year, but this shouldn’t be a political issue. People will get sick and die and limiting both of those things should be the top concern of the government. The best way to revive the stock market and fight off a long term economic downturn is to tackle this virus aggressively and end the crisis as quickly as possible. That starts with mass testing, clear and easy to follow instructions on what all people need to do and most importantly get people to follow the quarantine if sick and not be as likely to infect others.

All great points and I think they are trying to do everything medically they can... they Have test now, now people have got to just get tested and stay away from others if they have it.

but Will people follow instructions? Lol
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
All great points and I think they are trying to do everything medically they can... they Have test now, now people have got to just get tested and stay away from others if they have it.

but Will people follow instructions? Lol
Just one example, but probably not ;)

 

SoCalMort

Well-Known Member
I think somewhere on this thread somebody asked about impact on Disney buffets. Just found out that MGM Resorts in Vegas have closed their buffets and will make a decision on reopening them on a weekly basis.
 

LukeS7

Well-Known Member
If you get the virus, you get the virus. You can get it at work, school, vacation or not at all. Saw this before and thought it was relevant

View attachment 455401
Also relevant (US statistics for the years provided):
- Y2K: no infections, no deaths
- Anthrax: 22 infections, including 5 deaths (22.73% fatality rate, but a targeted attack)
- West Nile: 4,156 infections, 284 deaths (6.83% fatality rate)
- Bird flu: no infections, no deaths
- E. Coli: 276 infections, 3 deaths (1.09% fatality rate)
- Financial Crisis: no infections, probably some deaths though there’d be no real way to get an accurate count
- Swine Flu: 57,000,000 infections, 11,690 deaths (0.02% fatality rate)
- Mayan Calendar: no infections, no deaths
- North Korea: no infections, no deaths
- Ebola: 11 infections, 2 deaths (18.18% fatality rate)
- ISIS: 25 injuries, 14 deaths (35.9% fatality rate, but targeted attacks)
- Zika Virus: 5,168 infections, 1 death (from what I can find. 0.02% fatality rate)

- Coronavirus: 1,000 infections, 32 deaths as of writing (3.2% fatality rate)

So yea, go keep reading that list to yourself if it makes ya feel better, but stop doing the rest of the world a disservice by passing it off as people worrying about nothing. I’m tired of seeing this passed around without putting everything on it into context.

The fact of the matter is that even IF estimates for death rates are overblown currently, it could be off by a factor of 10 and still be 3 times as deadly as the flu and a widespread infection would be different from anything on that list.

Should we panic? No. But should we do what you’re doing? Absolutely not. Steps need to be taken to contain this. Full stop.
 
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