Jefro
Active Member
Seriously
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Coranavirus Disneyland General Discussion
- Thread starter CaptinEO
- Start date
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
That’s a tough accusation to verify but it’s definitely become a laissez faire approach as of recently.
That said it’s likely an indoor mask mandate is coming back soon particularly once the school year starts.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Disney isn't enforcing anything. Masks for unvaccinated guests is purely on the honour system.
Unless everyone in your family is fully vaccinated, stay home (or assume the risk).
And this is different from any other business how....?
And he knows he got it from Disneyland how....?
GhostHostLady
Member
Maybe it's just me but I don't feel like the world needs to come to a standstill to protect those unwilling to get vaccinated. If people are choosing not to get vaccinated then that's their choice to make along with the possible consequences that come with it.
I wonder if Newsom will reverse course after the recall election and bring back his tiers. Since we're planning a Nov. trip I'm getting worried about that possibility....
I wonder if Newsom will reverse course after the recall election and bring back his tiers. Since we're planning a Nov. trip I'm getting worried about that possibility....
I would not make any trip to California after the recall election.
GhostHostLady
Member
Sadly, that's about our only option right now bc of my work schedule but guess there's always WDW as a backup...
Do we really think he's going to go back into lockdown man after the recall?
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
It depends on vaccination rates. Failure to achieve necessary vaccination rates = more restrictions. But the current thinking is it’s predicted if they can tie vaccination status to employment that should be a new means “encouragement”.
It’s likely we’ll see other measures come into place before a full closure, but it is possible there are more restrictions on entry and attendance this Fall (i.e. attendance caps, out of state limits etc.) depending on the way things shape out.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Theres a lot of different things to unpack here but just a bit of clarification: Dee noted in a later tweet that he and his wife are both vaccinated.
He seems to be under the false impression that Disneyland was only allowing vaccinated guests and is disappointed that was not the case.
Not that I think Dee is high profile enough for this to be an issue for Disneyland's PR. Here's hoping that no one at the Jungle Cruise premiere comes up positive in the coming weeks.
October82
Well-Known Member
Respectfully, I think this way of approaching the topic isn't helpful. No one is suggesting that the world "come to a standstill". There are a large number of simple things, that bluntly, don't post a real burden, that would - as a simple matter of fact - reduce transmission by a large amount, ultimately saving lives and hospital resources. The big one is requiring that people wear masks indoors. This really shouldn't be any more controversial than washing your hands.
It would be wonderful if everyone were to get vaccinated, but in the real world, many people still don't have access to vaccines. This might be people who historically have not had access to medical care or people who have health conditions that prevent vaccination. Not everyone who is unvaccinated is doing so by choice, and even those who make the "dumb" choice, shouldn't be exposed to unnecessary risks. They're people too and Covid is a really horrific disease for a lot of people. When vaccination rates are 20-30% higher than they are now, the mitigation measures that are required to protect people, including the unvaccinated, will be different.
I wouldn't worry about your November trip, but I would also make sure that all of your bookings are refundable. We do not know what the situation nationally will be, and we know Covid is a seasonal disease. If we're seeing peaks in transmission in the summer months, I would expect transmission rates to be very high in the winter if vaccination rates do not improve.
You've been able to walk into a drug store since April and get the vaccine for free.
No more excuses.
You will not convince those that have not yet gotten the vaccine that are eligible to get it. You, the media, and the government are waisting their time.
el_super
Well-Known Member
So would you advocate for denying medical services to the unvaccinated? That's currently against the law.
How the heck did you get that from what I wrote?
October82
Well-Known Member
This assumes that there's a drugstore in your neighborhood, that you have access to a physician or pharmacist who you trust to provide reliable information, to take your health concerns seriously, and to treat you with respect and dignity, that you have time and can afford to miss work, potentially for several days, etc. etc.
We have not addressed the structural barriers to vaccine access because they are part and parcel of medical care in the US. Our long legacy of healthcare failures doesn't go away over night, no matter how impatient we are about it.
Okay, then we don't need to talk about it. You know all the answers.
el_super
Well-Known Member
It's the logical conclusion to ignoring the unvaccinated without any further interventions and consodering ot a waste of time. Eventually if the unvaccinated clog up the hospitals and ICUs, even those that have recieved the vaccine will be endangered by the lack of hospital capacity.
So do you think more effort should be put into getting people vaccinated, or should they just be denied entry to the ICU when theu get sick?
GhostHostLady
Member
Exactly. There are real economic consequences to a lot of the mandates- even something as seemingly simple as restricting capacity is devastating for businesses. I'm not talking masks- that's easy enough- I'm referring to the decisions that actually impact peoples lives. How long should we be expected to abide by protections for a group of people that refuse to get vaccinated? One year? Two years? Longer? I spent the entire pandemic staying home, we followed the measures to an absolute T. Now that we're vaccinated, and especially once we have vaccines for those under 12, it's time to get back to normal.
October82
Well-Known Member
Which is why it is important that we institute mask mandates early. Capacity limits are only necessary if there is a large degree of unmitigated transmission, which can be prevented by masking early - before you see the spike in cases.
No one is ignorant of the economic consequences of the pandemic. But the direct costs associated with cases are generally larger than the costs of mitigation. The extreme examples of this are the vaccines themselves. A single dose of the vaccine costs ~$40, the cost of hospitalization can be a factor of 10,000 higher.
There are two basic misunderstandings that get repeated. The first is that we have a choice as to "how long we wait". We do not. There's a simple, quantifiable, criteria for when we can stop caring about that pandemic, and that is when community transmission ends. We achieve that by increasing vaccination rates to the point where those who are infected do not transmit the infection to those around them, and this happens at 70-80% vaccination rates, contingent upon what the true vaccine efficacy rate is and whether immune escape occurs.
The second misunderstanding is that this is an individual problem. It isn't. This is a social problem. Simply because you or I might be vaccinated, and hence unlikely to develop severe symptoms, does not mean that we are spared the social costs as others get sick. We pay those social costs through our use of shared resources, such as businesses being open, beds being available in hospitals, etc. The pandemic ends when it ends for all of us, not when it ends for any of us.
In a perfect world, it would be time for those of us who took responsibility for our communities to fully "get back to normal", but we're not there yet. We won't be there until we take care of those who are still vulnerable.
That's a huge IF. Most ICU's in his country were not over-run last fall.
Now we have over 56% of the country fully vaccinated that are eligible. And that is even higher in urban centers where ICU's are most likely to be full.
Maybe we should deny those who refuse to get the flu shot that end up in the hospital with flu like symptoms too then? Only seems logical.
Might as well deny those who get in auto accidents without wearing a seatbelt as well.
el_super
Well-Known Member
And that was with restrictions and mask mandates.
You don't think the hospital capacity will get worse if the governement dropped all resteictions and stopped trying to vaccinate people?
We don't have the hospital capacity to treat 50% of the population in the next two months. And think of the businesses that would need to shut down due to lack of employees (or customers) if everyone was in the hospital (or even just out sick for two weeks).
Not at all, the concern is that hospital/ICU capacity will not be available, something that doesn't occur every flu season.
So again the question remains: are you willing to sacrifice people and deny them entry to an ICU in order to prevent additional restrictions?