Coranavirus Disneyland General Discussion

[Wendy Pleakley]

Oh no. Pages of virus, masks and vaccine discussions. Is it 2020 again?

It's 2021 and everyone should be vaccinated now. But too may people aren't. So here we are. The situation is far better, but not where it could and should be.

The USA is getting more new COVID cases per capita than places that started vaccinated months later.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Here is what Disneyland Paris posted on their IG. Obviously France is a totally different socio-political climate than the U.S.

However should something like this become a mandate in the medium-long term future (particularly for California), it gives us an idea of what some form of a “Health Pass” system would look like if implemented for stateside parks.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

Here is what Disneyland Paris posted on their IG. Obviously France is a totally different socio-political climate than the U.S.

However should something like this become a mandate in the medium-long term future (particularly for California), it gives us an idea of what some form of a “Health Pass” system would look like if implemented for stateside parks.

This is America, and heads would explode if anything remotely like that came to fruition here. Many states would refuse, because, ya know.....FREEDOM!!

One thing I'm pretty sure of though. Masks will probably be required indoors(except restaurants) at the O.C. parks before month's end, if not by next week.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Let's actually figure out why it is that people don't want to get vaccinated instead of creating a strawman to demonize our political enemies. Then, once we understand what's preventing them, we can tackle that issue so they feel comfortable getting the vaccine. But telling people their reasons are stupid and they are selfish for not getting the vaccine therefore they should get it? Not an effective strategy.

Because there's lots of coordinated misinformation about the effectiveness of vaccines, coincidentally that is coming largely from one political side? The same side trumpeting about "Muh Freedums!!1!1!!" all the time? And states that heavily skew towards that particular side have lower rates of vaccination and higher rates of covid related hospitalizations at the moment? Let's not pretend we can't connect the dots.

The data is clear: by being fully vaccinated, you are significantly reducing your risk of serious illness and death.

Since we're talking about Los Angeles County with USH, let's go local (https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/). To quote from the article:

"Over 99% of the COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths we are seeing are among unvaccinated individuals," Barbara Ferrer, Los Angeles County's director of public health, said in a statement Monday.

Numbers show the vaccines are working well against the Delta variant.

"At this point, this really is a preventable illness, a preventable infection, and the healthcare workers will continue doing everything they can to support the lives and health of the individuals that come in, but it's really been a very challenging year, and I think it's made all the more challenging because we see the suffering that these patients and their families are going through, and it's very preventable at this point in time," Dr. Ghaly said."

You can certainly debate whether or not mask mandates should return for vaccinated individuals given this information, but the effectiveness of the vaccines is clear. Thus, unless a person is not currently eligible for the vaccine due to age, health, or other limitations, it shouldn't be a debate. There isn't even a financial cost.

It's not hard.

 

[drizgirl]

Let's actually figure out why it is that people don't want to get vaccinated instead of creating a strawman to demonize our political enemies. Then, once we understand what's preventing them, we can tackle that issue so they feel comfortable getting the vaccine. But telling people their reasons are stupid and they are selfish for not getting the vaccine therefore they should get it? Not an effective strategy.

But it’s a lot more fun to demonize people and put them in boxes.

 

[ToTBellHop]

To be fair, the recommendation was always that the unvaccinated should continue to mask, especially indoors. In practice, they are not and no one is offering to verify status. So, LA decided to take a step back because people can’t make the right decision.

We could have just, you know, followed the rules.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Because there's lots of coordinated misinformation about the effectiveness of vaccines, coincidentally that is coming largely from one political side? The same side trumpeting about "Muh Freedums!!1!1!!" all the time? And states that heavily skew towards that particular side have lower rates of vaccination and higher rates of covid related hospitalizations at the moment? Let's not pretend we can't connect the dots.

The data is clear: by being fully vaccinated, you are significantly reducing your risk of serious illness and death.

Since we're talking about Los Angeles County with USH, let's go local (https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/). To quote from the article:

"Over 99% of the COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths we are seeing are among unvaccinated individuals," Barbara Ferrer, Los Angeles County's director of public health, said in a statement Monday.

Numbers show the vaccines are working well against the Delta variant.

"At this point, this really is a preventable illness, a preventable infection, and the healthcare workers will continue doing everything they can to support the lives and health of the individuals that come in, but it's really been a very challenging year, and I think it's made all the more challenging because we see the suffering that these patients and their families are going through, and it's very preventable at this point in time," Dr. Ghaly said."

You can certainly debate whether or not mask mandates should return for vaccinated individuals given this information, but the effectiveness of the vaccines is clear. Thus, unless a person is not currently eligible for the vaccine due to age, health, or other limitations, it shouldn't be a debate. There isn't even a financial cost.

It's not hard.

If this was as simple as “politics” you wouldn’t see such a massive difference in vaccination rates between old people (who tend to be more conservative) and young people (who tend to be more progressive). The other demographic who is under vaccinated is Black Americans, another group who skews heavily to the left.

The political rhetoric doesn’t help but vaccination resistance is much bigger than politics.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

If this was as simple as “politics” you wouldn’t see such a massive difference in vaccination rates between old people (who tend to be more conservative) and young people (who tend to be more progressive). The other demographic who is under vaccinated is Black Americans, another group who skews heavily yo the left.

The political rhetoric doesn’t help but vaccination resistance is much bigger than politics.

The biggest divide is based on politics. They had a graph on CNN recently that showed Black Americans had a reasonably higher rate of vaccination than that amongst all Republicans. States that voted for Joe Biden have substantially higher vax rates across the board than those for TFG.

The age thing has more to do with the fact some older people were smart enough to put politics aside, since they realize they're part of the group most susceptible to dying from Covid if they catch it. I'd imagine that once you exclude 70+, the gap between the political sides would be even more significant.

 

[October82]

I’m sure the weather plays a huge role in the increase, I tend to be a glass half full guy though so when I look at the graph I don’t see a surge, I see a graph that shows less than half the cases we had last year when most businesses were still closed and the ones that were open had no indoor dining, had social distancing, required masks, had plexiglass dividers everywhere, etc, etc, etc,

Vegas has been 100% free of any mandatory restrictions for several months now and our case counts are dramatically less than they were a year ago when every restriction was still in place, factor in that our deaths statewide are currently at 3 and holding steady and I see that as a massive win and a glowing endorsement for how affective the vaccines actually are.

The problem with looking at case numbers is that they don't tell you what is happening or what will happen, but what was happening about two weeks ago. That's what many people have failed to appreciate about Covid from the beginning - the two week asymptomatic period after infection means that these curves are always lagging indicators of the real situation.

Covid does seem to be a seasonal disease, and this helps somewhat. What has changed in recent weeks compared to last year, and why we can't use last summer as a baseline scenario, is that the delta variant is about 2x as infectious as the "wild type". Add in the effects of no capacity limits and limited masking, and even with a large fraction of the population vaccinated, the end of the summer and early fall do not look good. With the long asymptomatic period, we need to start getting ahead of the worst of it, which is why measures sooner, rather than later, are crucial. Since Masking reduces the infection rate by about 50% in normal usage (much more in 'perfect usage', but that's another topic), masking alone should get us back to a place where the delta variant is controllable with the vaccination rates we've already achieved.

 

[October82]

Here is what Disneyland Paris posted on their IG. Obviously France is a totally different socio-political climate than the U.S.

However should something like this become a mandate in the medium-long term future (particularly for California), it gives us an idea of what some form of a “Health Pass” system would look like if implemented for stateside parks.

I don't know if a "Health Pass" system is necessary, but a reasonable next step is for employers to require their employees to be vaccinated. Given how many people certain industries employ, like healthcare, this could really start to change the vaccination rate curves.

We also need to do a better job of making sure people in rural parts of the state, and the country, have access to the vaccines. More rural regions of the country are becoming some of the most vulnerable, in part because of neglect in vaccine access, but also because people in these areas falsely believe that they are not substantially at risk.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

I don't know if a "Health Pass" system is necessary, but a reasonable next step is for employers to require their employees to be vaccinated. Given how many people certain industries employ, like healthcare, this could really start to change the vaccination rate curves.

We also need to do a better job of making sure people in rural parts of the state, and the country, have access to the vaccines. More rural regions of the country are becoming some of the most vulnerable, in part because of neglect in vaccine access, but also because people in these areas falsely believe that they are not substantially at risk.

Supposedly a lot of businesses are constrained from doing that until the vaccines receive Full FDA approval. That's not expected to happen until perhaps September.

To comment on your post just before this one, the problem we face is that the states and counties with the lowest vaccination rates, are also the ones where it will be damn near impossible to get any sort of restrictions imposed. Many of them had no restrictions like mask wearing or social distancing in place all along, or at least for the last few months. They are not going to put any measures in place to mitigate the spread.

And here in CA, the first sign that Governor Newsom intends to impose something as horrible as a mask requirement again, will be met by cries to recall him again, even though the first recall election hasn't even occurred yet. News Flash: He's not going to get recalled in September, because the majority of Californians are satisfied with how he's handled the pandemic thus far.

And guess which state is experiencing spiking Covid cases right now? That's right, Floriduh. But I doubt that will stop all the Disney fans from claiming how much of a better job their Governor has done, by keeping things open, having lax mask requirements, and taking steps to manipulate the data so things look better than they actually are.

 

[TP2000]

Oh no. Pages of virus, masks and vaccine discussions. Is it 2020 again?

Don't worry friend, it's only Los Angeles County. So basically, Universal Studios and Six Flags Magic Mountain.

Orange County isn't doing this. No other county wants to touch it. Famed attorney Mark Garagos was just on KFI saying he will be filing a legal challenge to this on Monday. The way LA County timed this on purpose (after 10am on a Thursday), there is no legal ability to file legal challenges to this until Monday, after it has taken effect.

 

[TP2000]

Here are the breakdowns on who has, and has not, been vaccinated in Los Angeles County;

Asians = 76% (1.2 Million citizens)
Whites = 66% (2.3 Million citizens)
Latinos = 55% (3.8 Million citizens)
Blacks = 45% (680,000 citizens)

The disparities are also heavily weighted to income and class. The middle and upper class zip codes on the west and north sides of the county have very high vaccination rates, often above 90%. The working class and poor zip codes on the south and east sides of the county have low vaccination rates, hovering in the 35% to 50% range.

For LA County, it comes down to class and race on who is not getting vaccinated. No amount of $25 gift cards, or free McDonalds meals, or complimentary Uber rides to the free vaccines seems to help in those zip codes.

The oceanside upscale community of Playa Vista is 96% vaccinated. A few miles inland, the working class community of Watts is only 51% vaccinated.

As of today, 61% of LA County is fully vaccinated. 70% of LA County has had at least one dose.

The LA County Covid dashboard has all sorts of fascinating facts and data on this!

LA County COVID-19 Vaccine Dashboard - LA County Department of Public Health

publichealth.lacounty.gov

 

[October82]

Supposedly a lot of businesses are constrained from doing that until the vaccines receive Full FDA approval. That's not expected to happen until perhaps September. [...]

I had heard that also - more recently, at least in healthcare, that hasn't been the case. Healthcare providers have been able to mandate the vaccine and terminate the employment of those who choose not to get vaccinated. I imagine many companies are waiting for full approval for "CYA" reasons, so I imagine we'll see more mandates in the Fall. If private employers impose mandates, that hopefully gets around a lot of the polarization you're talking about that prevents some states from acting sensibly.

And here in CA, the first sign that Governor Newsom intends to impose something as horrible as a mask requirement again, will be met by cries to recall him again, even though the first recall election hasn't even occurred yet. News Flash: He's not going to get recalled in September, because the majority of Californians are satisfied with how he's handled the pandemic thus far. [...]

This is partly why I'm worried that we may not act quick enough in California. Mid-late august is the time to return to indoor mask mandates, so I hope Newsom puts public health above any perceived political risk. You're right, though, polling has pretty consistently shown public support for mask mandates. Business closures are more controversial but I don't think that'll be necessary unless we see a variant that escapes the mRNA vaccines.

 

[fctiger]

Let me get this straight.
1. The vaccine protects against all known variants. Not necessarily from contracting the virus, but certainly from hospitalization and death.
2. The majority of Californians, and certainly Los Angelenos, have received the vaccine.
3. The people who have not received the vaccine are primarily people who will never receive the vaccine.
4. The only people at risk, then, are those who have willfully chosen not to take the vaccine, and are fully aware of the risk they are taking.
So, who are these mask mandates for exactly? The people who don't want them and don't care if they get the virus? Why is the government punishing everybody to protect a minority who rejects the government's protection?

Sadly that's it in a nutshell. The people who are doing the responsible thing still have to pay to protect the nuts out there. And of course the people vaccinated will most likely will be following the rules again and be masked indoors while a lot of the unvaccinated probably won't bother since many of them think the whole thing is a hoax. So the majority of us in L.A. who did the right thing have to concede to the others who clearly have no issue risking illness. Nice.

I gotten spoiled not wearing a mask the last few weeks. It's been really liberating to us. Sure we still had to wear them in some places but it felt nice a big part of your normalcy was back. And sadly this will probably end up happening in a lot of places across the country too. ''

Get VACCINATED already people!!!!! Jesus Christ!

 

[fctiger]

But these people do not want to be protected and we do not want to protect them, so why are we protecting them?

Yeah, I AGREE with you. That's what I'm saying too. But governments look at it differently and sadly we are the ones who have to pay for the price of it. They seem to feel the need to try and protect everyone. And while its noble, you're not going to convince a lot of these people one way or the other anymore so why even bother?

I'm just really disgusted by the fact we have MULTIPLE vaccines now, they all work, they are all very accessible now and most importantly FREE which is not necessarily the case in all countries and yet less than half the country is still fully vaccinated. But at least 70% had one shot, so that's great but all of this should be much much higher by now.

 

[fctiger]

So why are we? We've done the right thing. Why would we ever comply with this? It hurts everybody and helps nobody. If people don't want the vaccine, let them get sick.

I would like to know, and I'm not sure if there are numbers on this, what the percentage of people who have received the vaccine are PLUS the number who have developed natural immunity after recovering from the virus. It's silly to think the vaccine is the only way we achieve herd immunity; natural immunity can be just as effective.

You got me lol. But sadly it is what it is. But I think as long as nothing gets shut down again, most people will just go along with it. But the question is how long will it go??? How long are we suppose to be masked up again since the new variant isn't going away anytime soon and the vaccination rate is slowing waaaaay down. I do try to see the glass half full and if this is the biggest issue, it's not a huge issue but shouldn't have to be wearing masks at all anymore, at least people vaccinated. So yeah.

 

[cmwade77]

This is America, and heads would explode if anything remotely like that came to fruition here. Many states would refuse, because, ya know.....FREEDOM!!

One thing I'm pretty sure of though. Masks will probably be required indoors(except restaurants) at the O.C. parks before month's end, if not by next week.

I doubt it, OC didn't really require masks, even when the state did, I don't see them changing course.

 

[cmwade77]

Let me get this straight.
1. The vaccine protects against all known variants. Not necessarily from contracting the virus, but certainly from hospitalization and death.
2. The majority of Californians, and certainly Los Angelenos, have received the vaccine.
3. The people who have not received the vaccine are primarily people who will never receive the vaccine.
4. The only people at risk, then, are those who have willfully chosen not to take the vaccine, and are fully aware of the risk they are taking.
So, who are these mask mandates for exactly? The people who don't want them and don't care if they get the virus? Why is the government punishing everybody to protect a minority who rejects the government's protection?

Exactly, they know the risks of not getting vaccinated and there are risks for many with getting vaccinated. It is up to each individual which set of risks they are willing to deal with.

At this point, we need to let people take personal responsibility and deal with the risks they have chosen.

 

[cmwade77]

So why are we? We've done the right thing. Why would we ever comply with this? It hurts everybody and helps nobody. If people don't want the vaccine, let them get sick.

I would like to know, and I'm not sure if there are numbers on this, what the percentage of people who have received the vaccine are PLUS the number who have developed natural immunity after recovering from the virus. It's silly to think the vaccine is the only way we achieve herd immunity; natural immunity can be just as effective.

Not sure about that, but even the CDC has said that at best masks reduce transmission by 1.8%, that is less than 2% and yet, masks have been demonstrated to cause long term health problems for many people and yes, even killed people.