Considering driving instead of flying because of TSA

[Sadiebird]

I have a trip to WDW planned for May 2011. I've already purchased my flights, but I'm seriously considering requesting a refund based on all the stories I've been reading about the invasive security procedures being used by the TSA. I don't have a problem going through a metal detector or having my bag searched. I don't even have a problem with a standard pat down. But I do have a problem with being strip searched by a machine. And if I choose to opt out of that, I also have a problem with a pat down that involves touching my private areas. I don't want to subject myself or my 5 year old son to these things so that we can get on a plane and fly to Disney World. I'd rather drive 17 hours in a car. My husband has convinced me to wait until closer to our trip to get a refund on the plane tickets, just in case the TSA decides to back down on their procedures. I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way. I can't believe this is the direction our country is heading.

 

[loveofamouse]

Watching CNN right now. A woman is filing against the TSA for sexual harassment because the pat down included her private areas.

Now here's a thought: If a woman was walking down the street and a stranger walked up and grabbed her areas, that would be sexual assault. If a teacher touched a child, even on top of the clothes, he'd be deemed a pediphile. If a man walked up to you and grabbed your junk, you'd be offended. If the same things are done in the name of security, we should be okay with it.


Like many have said, and proven, if someone with bad intentions gets it into their heads to hijack a plane, they will. They could get a job as ground crew. They could work as a FA. They could hide things in their butts, shoes, walking canes or wheelchairs. There are so many things the TSA isn't checking that could be used. The only thing the TSA has done is succeeded in lengthening the time of travel, irritate people, confiscate items (which I wouldn't be surprised if they were taking that stuff home), and give themselves a power trip. Not to mention, there are other ways to commit terrorist acts. Car bombs, truck bombs, snipers, etc. If someone bombed a couple power plants, we could have a bigger blackout than the one a few years ago that blacked out from NYC to chicago and canada. There are many things that could be done. But at least there's no shampoo, baby formula, or bottled water getting smuggled into those planes....

definition of terrorist:
a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

Could be argued that the TSA are terrorist. just sayin' lol

 

[Master Yoda]

Yet another article on the subject.

http://skepchick.org/blog/2010/11/touched-by-a-stranger/

 

[powlessfamily4]

I leave for WDW tomorrow and I am driving I live in Atlanta so it is not a huge task for me. If Someone handed me airline tickets right now.... I would turn them down.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I personally don't see any problem with the machines. I went through one yesterday at the Orlando airport and it really wasn't a problem. With millions of people going through the machines I am not worried that a TSA screener is going to get their laughs from me...and even if they do, then I guess we can laugh at the thought of safety. I personally don't mind a little privacy invasion when I know that my flight will be safe.

The reasons I would rather drive are the hassles of going through the airport. By the time you go through baggage check, security, delays, getting your bags you have taken so many hours out of the day. My magical express picked me up at 3:20pm yesterday and I didn't get to my house until 11:30 (going to Newark airport which is about a 2.5 hour trip)...I could have been half way home by car at that point and been a lot less hassled.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Yet another article on the subject.

http://skepchick.org/blog/2010/11/touched-by-a-stranger/

Linked from your link (some of these are hilarious):

http://www.flyingpasties.com

 

[Master Yoda]

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I personally don't see any problem with the machines. I went through one yesterday at the Orlando airport and it really wasn't a problem. With millions of people going through the machines I am not worried that a TSA screener is going to get their laughs from me...and even if they do, then I guess we can laugh at the thought of safety. I personally don't mind a little privacy invasion when I know that my flight will be safe.

The reasons I would rather drive are the hassles of going through the airport. By the time you go through baggage check, security, delays, getting your bags you have taken so many hours out of the day. My magical express picked me up at 3:20pm yesterday and I didn't get to my house until 11:30 (going to Newark airport which is about a 2.5 hour trip)...I could have been half way home by car at that point and been a lot less hassled.

This is the big sticking point for most people. I would tolerate some level of privacy invasion if it offered a level of security. The question is do these scans actually provide anything more than an illusion of security? Have any of these new screening methods deployed since 9/11 actually nabbed someone attempting to blow up a plane? I am going off of my flawed human memory but it seems like the foiled plots happen before someone even gets to the airport or when the perpetrators screw up. I can't think of a single time that a guy attempting to blow up/hijack a plane was nabbed at the airport security check.

 

[loveofamouse]

http://www.newser.com/story/105351/tsa-pats-down-3-year-old.html

 

[minniemickeyfan]

As I mentioned before in this thread my daughter had a surgery and has all this metal in her back...now why does she not go off in our home airport-Kansas City, but always on the way home from Orlando? If terrorists know this, wouldn't they just try to do something from our airport or be out there testing different airports? It goes to show that there are so many loopholes to do something if they want to and security at different airports is not the same. On accident once I actually got 3 juice drinks through orlando security, wonder how much they miss.

I would prefer to fly, but we drive now just because getting my daughter through security is a huge hassle. Its very intimidating for her, she cries, she always wants to know why they are doing this to her, I try to explain, but she feels she's not doing anything wrong. I have xrays from the DR and they completely ignore them. The TSA in my daughter's experiences haven't been very nice at all, and after so many times of flying and experiencing this, I think driving for us is easier. Plus its great to have your own car once you get there, and our family actually has a great time together in the car.

 

[pax_65]

Like many have said, and proven, if someone with bad intentions gets it into their heads to hijack a plane, they will.

So does that mean you just give up trying to prevent it? I don't understand the logic.

The terrorists hijack planes, you add cockpit doors.
They bring liquid explosives, you restrict carry-on liquids.
They put explosives in their shoes, you x-ray everyone's shoes.
They put explosives in their underwear, you scan everyone.

If the scanners aren't effective, that's another issue - then you put scanners in that are effective. Privacy is a concern but you deal with that logistically. You deal with the headaches and keep moving forward, and you deal with the next threat when it emerges.

You don't just throw up your hands and say, "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen."

 

[tink65]

We are about 10 hours away and always drive. We enjoy the drive. (though it does get tiring) We always enjoy our stop for breakfast & lunch just thinking and talking about all the plans we've made and all the fun we'll be having. We have some relatives that flew for the first time this year and they really liked it. However, with the combined wait times from when they had to be at the airport and the flight time, it didn't really save a ton of time. (of course they weren't as tired either) To me, the extra cost for the tickets versus driving isn't worth it. But, that's just me! 15 hours is alot more than 10 though!!!!! What works for one doesn't always for everyone else! Fly or drive? Either way you'll have a ton of fun!!!! Another great thing about driving is having your own vehicle in case of emergency plus we always take bottled water & snacks. Things that we certainly want to have available but cannot transport via plane!

 

[WDWmazprty]

We are about 10 hours away and always drive. We enjoy the drive. (though it does get tiring) We always enjoy our stop for breakfast & lunch just thinking and talking about all the plans we've made and all the fun we'll be having. We have some relatives that flew for the first time this year and they really liked it. However, with the combined wait times from when they had to be at the airport and the flight time, it didn't really save a ton of time. (of course they weren't as tired either) To me, the extra cost for the tickets versus driving isn't worth it. But, that's just me! 15 hours is alot more than 10 though!!!!! What works for one doesn't always for everyone else! Fly or drive? Either way you'll have a ton of fun!!!! Another great thing about driving is having your own vehicle in case of emergency plus we always take bottled water & snacks. Things that we certainly want to have available but cannot transport via plane!

Where are you from in TN? Im also from TN :wave:

 

[sshindel]

Now here's a thought: If a woman was walking down the street and a stranger walked up and grabbed her areas, that would be sexual assault. If a teacher touched a child, even on top of the clothes, he'd be deemed a pediphile. If a man walked up to you and grabbed your junk, you'd be offended. If the same things are done in the name of security, we should be okay with it.

For some reason, this makes me think of the Family Guy episode with Peter and the prostate exam.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

This is the big sticking point for most people. I would tolerate some level of privacy invasion if it offered a level of security. The question is do these scans actually provide anything more than an illusion of security? Have any of these new screening methods deployed since 9/11 actually nabbed someone attempting to blow up a plane? I am going off of my flawed human memory but it seems like the foiled plots happen before someone even gets to the airport or when the perpetrators screw up. I can't think of a single time that a guy attempting to blow up/hijack a plane was nabbed at the airport security check.

You're right that they aren't caught at security, but does that mean we shouldn't take corrective action to try to stop something similar from happening? When you have people who are willing to blow themselves up, they are willing to go to extremes that most of us would never imagine...so it would be impossible to create preventative measure for everything. Unfortunately this (like so many other things) is something that becomes a reactive action as opposed to proactive because of things that have happened. We should be thankful that all the recent attempts of terrorism since 9/11 have failed or been discovered, and I for one don't think it is terrible that in order to prevent it in the future they take corrective steps against it. I mean, the original automobile wasn't built with an airbag, but after enough people went through the windshield someone decided it was probably a good idea to throw that in.

 

[Master Yoda]

You're right that they aren't caught at security, but does that mean we shouldn't take corrective action to try to stop something similar from happening? When you have people who are willing to blow themselves up, they are willing to go to extremes that most of us would never imagine...so it would be impossible to create preventative measure for everything. Unfortunately this (like so many other things) is something that becomes a reactive action as opposed to proactive because of things that have happened. We should be thankful that all the recent attempts of terrorism since 9/11 have failed or been discovered, and I for one don't think it is terrible that in order to prevent it in the future they take corrective steps against it. I mean, the original automobile wasn't built with an airbag, but after enough people went through the windshield someone decided it was probably a good idea to throw that in.

You are correct in the fact that there has to be some security measures even if it is only security theater. I just think that the full body scanners with questionable effectiveness, unverified health risks, and possibly insecure data collection or a groping pat down have crossed the line into 4th amendment violation territory.

The argument of "if you don't like it don't fly" does not hold water in our current society. Air travel for some is an occupational necessity. A close friend of mine is on a plane pretty much weekly if not more for her job and due cancer risk does not feel comfortable going through even a low level x-ray machine. He choice becomes quit her job and move into a refrigerator box under a bridge or let a total stranger go to second base with her 2 to 4 times per week. That is not a choice any law abiding person should have to make.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

You are correct in the fact that there has to be some security measures even if it is only security theater. I just think that the full body scanners with questionable effectiveness, unverified health risks, and possibly insecure data collection or a groping pat down have crossed the line into 4th amendment violation territory.

The argument of "if you don't like it don't fly" does not hold water in our current society. Air travel for some is an occupational necessity. A close friend of mine is on a plane pretty much weekly if not more for her job and due cancer risk does not feel comfortable going through even a low level x-ray machine. He choice becomes quit her job and move into a refrigerator box under a bridge or let a total stranger go to second base with her 2 to 4 times per week. That is not a choice any law abiding person should have to make.

I totally understand some people's concerns, and I might be more concerned about the Xray machine if I was flying as frequently as your friend. I don't knock anyone for being concerned, and I would personally like to not have to deal with this. However, I feel that when you have crazy people out there looking to murder innocent civilians, we need to have some sort of effective system to try and stop these things...whether this is really the right thing though is hard to tell as of now.

 

[timeman]

Hopefully the major airports will get rid of the TSA. The law that created the TSA gave airports the right to opt out of the TSA program after a two year period and instead go to private screeners.

The gentleman who will soon be chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure is reminding airports that they have a choice.


The thing that makes this more than the government reactting to what is going on now is that the chairman was one of the authors of the original TSA bill. He has written to the heads of more than 150 airports nationwide suggesting they opt out of TSA screening.



Here is a link to that article.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...takes-aim-at-screening-1576602-108259869.html

​

 

[Mammymouse]

I often wonder if the actual "terrorists", whomever they may be, went on a first class trip to Disneyworld to enjoy the magic with their families or friends, and could observe the rest of the free world enjoying themselves also, if they would have the same death wish? I don't know though - happiness might be too radical.

 

[rsoxguy]

I often wonder if the actual "terrorists", whomever they may be, went on a first class trip to Disneyworld to enjoy the magic with their families or friends, and could observe the rest of the free world enjoying themselves also, if they would have the same death wish? I don't know though - happiness might be too radical.

While your sentiment is certainly positive and idealistic, I'm afraid that reality is not so kind. Those who wish to harm the citizens of our World do so because their motivation is hatred. A trip to WDW could never reach beyond the malevolence that guides those who are considered "extremists" within their religion or culture. Their line of thinking is too deeply rooted.

 

[Master Yoda]

While your sentiment is certainly positive and idealistic, I'm afraid that reality is not so kind. Those who wish to harm the citizens of our World do so because their motivation is hatred. A trip to WDW could never reach beyond the malevolence that guides those who are considered "extremists" within their religion or culture. Their line of thinking is too deeply rooted.

Also knowing our luck they would encounter one of those people that try to but in front of you at the last second before a parade or a group of over zealous cheerleaders and snap on the spot causing Disney to put up these scanners in a the parks.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Radiation from full-body scanner is equal to 2 minutes of radiation received mid-flight. Unless your flight is less than 4 minutes long, roundtrip, scanner radiation is a miniscule factor compared to in-flight radiation exposure. IMO, of course.