Concepts for DCA coming to WDW?

[WDWFREAK53]

And as an aside, let's not forget the "theme" of MK in the first place, as expertly described by the plaque.

If anyone would like to explain how one could resolve the exceedingly different "themes" of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy, I'm all ears.

You're walking into a children's library. Plus, that's the Magic Kingdom.

If TLM is themed to be a seaside aquarium...that's all the "stretch" I need to hear to be fully on board with it. I don't hate Disney :lol: and I think the Imagineers are incredible...but they can't just build an attraction because there is demand...it needs to fit into the larger picture.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Actually, when Jungle Cruise originally opened it was a serious safari ride, and lacked the humor it has now. Believe me, the official script is not funny or mocking at all.

I understand this...but the re-do of the attraction "fixes" that problem.

 

[Missing20K]

You're walking into a children's library. Plus, that's the Magic Kingdom.

If TLM is themed to be a seaside aquarium...that's all the "stretch" I need to hear to be fully on board with it. I don't hate Disney :lol: and I think the Imagineers are incredible...but they can't just build an attraction because there is demand...it needs to fit into the larger picture.

Works for me.

But I'm not sure why if TLM is going in Fantasyland, why it needs a backstory to help it "fit into the larger picture" if IASW, PP, and Dumbo make do without extensive exterior theming or much in the queues and without a backstory of how these attractions ended up in Fantasyland.

So would the seaside aquarium just be holding Ariel captive......like Sea World for mermaids?? (I'm kidding by the way, not bashing the idea, just when I thought about it, it struck me as funny)

 

[marni1971]

How about that fact it is a land of Fantasy, just like TLM?? That should be enough.

The orignal TLM ride was planned for both DLPs and WDWs Fantasylands in the late 80`s. If it worked back then with stricter rules of theming it`ll certainly work now. For those familiar with the amazing Fantasyland of Paris, you`d know nothing considered out of theme would be allowed to intrude.

 

[Missing20K]

How about that fact it is a land of Fantasy, just like TLM?? That should be enough.

The orignal TLM ride was planned for both DLPs and WDWs Fantasylands in the late 80`s. If it worked back then with stricter rules of theming it`ll certainly work now. For those familiar with the amazing Fantasyland of Paris, you`d know nothing considered out of theme would be allowed to intrude.

who was "enforcing" such rules? Corporate or was it a self-imposed thing by WDI itself? Some combination? And why were they implemented in the first place and then done away with?

Are the stricter rules of theming going to determine the design of the now delayed but upcoming Fantasyland refurb?

 

[TP2000]

I agree, the red cars would really enhance the Hollwood feel of DHS, I think Hollwood and Sunset may be a bit too narrow though...I'm not sure.

As for the theming issue Missing 20K hit it on the head, there's little point in sweating the theming of a park, and it's funny how this issue only arises on coming attractions. This is because opened attractions have been tirelessly worked by imagineers and as a result it never glaringly jarrs with its surroundings.

According to a quick and unscientific check on Yahoo Maps satellite pictures, the street width is nearly identical between DHS Hollywood Blvd. and Sunset Blvd. and the Hollywood Blvd. strip in DCA that the Red Cars will travel down on their way to Cars Land. All three streets check in right at about 30 feet wide from curb to curb.

The Red Cars, like most Disney attractions, won't be an exact duplicate of the originals. They will be scaled and sized perfectly for their theme park environments, and if you put a Disney Red Car next to a real Red Car shown in the picture above, I'm sure the Disney Red Car would look a bit shrunken in comparison. Perhaps closer to 7/8ths scale, and using modern and specially designed wheel trucks that allow the car to sit closer to the ground.

As for your comment about us Disney fans criticizing the theme of new additions before they get built, and why we shouldn't worry about that stuff, you summed that up beautifully! :sohappy:

 

[TP2000]

If TLM is themed to be a seaside aquarium...that's all the "stretch" I need to hear to be fully on board with it.

So, wait, did I just sell you on The Little Mermaid attraction being added to Disney's California Adventure and opening in 2011?

I should be an Imagineer! Or a car salesman! :lol:

 

[Enigma]

Neat Fact: Bob Weiss the head of the DCA revival project was also the head of the MGM Studios project back in the 80s. One concept that got cut from the budget for MGM Studios was the red car trollies. Weiss later tried to bring back the red car trolly concept for the MGM expansion, susnset blvd but it was once again slashed from the budget. Some other ideas that WDI has wanted for years will also finally become reality at DCA...the return of the flying saucers c-ticket (now themed to Cars), a little mermaid dark ride (which will now be a lavish, tokyo-calibur, family e-ticket) and although Marc Davis's Western River Expedition still only lives in the archives of Imagineering, the Radiator Springs showbuilding does evoke the look and feel of the original design for WRE.

 

[HMF]

A) What did you expect from Nemo? It was shoe horned into an existing ride track, and I think the ride was admirably done for what they had to work with. Plus the queue is one of the best at WDW. And also Disneyland is jealous of how our effects show up compared to theirs. Definitely not a failure.

B)Gran Fiesta Tour is fun. And honestly what else could they have done with it?

C) While Monster's INC doesn't fit thematically with Tomorrowland, it is an awesome attraction. I saw it quite often during my College Program, and people always left with a smile on their face.

D)SGE was a failure, but I blame that on executives more than Imagineers.

E)SSE was a casualty of budgets, and it isn't done. I know the guys who designed it, and they'll come through.

Again, most of these are casualties to Imagineers being shoehorned into a small budget or an existing ride space. Let them build something new, and they'll blow you away.

The real problem is that they gave Tony Baxter, Disneyland Park. They gave Bob Weiss' DCA and they gave Joe Rohde DAK these are great Imagineers but MK Epcot and DHS are all now supervised by Tom "video screens rule" Fitzgerald. Also the parachute drop is not gonna happen. Maliboomer is coming down and not being replaced.

 

[imagineer boy]

Exactly, Disney can't please everyone. People initially complained about the lack of characters in the park. That is precisely the reason why Eureka failed to meet guests expectations (it was a great parade btw ).

I'm not sure I understand why the changes for paradise pier are seen as negative.. It's getting a nighttime lagoon show, a new dark ride, and an overall enhanced look to strengthen the theme. It's not like they're completely getting rid of it. I'm not going to complain about any of the changes because Disney could've easily just ignored DCA and done absolutely nothing on this type of scale.

But just because the park had a problem with lack of characters in the first place, doesn't mean Disney should put characters all over the place. Look at Epcot in the 90s, people complained about lack of characters and Disney put in a few attractions with characters while keeping the theme and spirit of Epcot alive.

 

[Pongo]

But just because the park had a problem with lack of characters in the first place, doesn't mean Disney should put characters all over the place. Look at Epcot in the 90s, people complained about lack of characters and Disney put in a few attractions with characters while keeping the theme and spirit of Epcot alive.

But that same "spirit" is what made the crowds go away because they didn't want to learn things.

 

[whylightbulb]

Yea, because so many carnival rides have characters projected into one of the world's largest salt water aquariums. And an industrial robot? Seriously? It's a very good animatronic attached to a kuka robot arm. Not industrial or cheap at all. And seriously? You are going to compare trying to fit a dark ride into an existing space to HM and TOT? Seriously? And your saying rides that aren't as good as those you mention can't be liked? Come on. I'm not saying it's the be all end all of rides, but it's a well executed, fun ride.

What I love is people expect every ride to be mind blowing. It's a C ticket attraction, it wasn't meant to be Epcot's newest classic.

Sorry, in my opinion this ride has very little entertainment value and was extremely disappointing to me and everyone else I personally know that has ridden it. This doesn't mean that some won't enjoy it. Of course I find Everest and Mission Space only mildly amusing and Test Track to be very poorly executed. My standards are high because this is Disney. I know what can be done. What we've seen in the last 10 years is the stale crumbs left from the banquet you can find in Tokyo for example.

The scenic work in Nemo is very basic and minimal. The reflection gags are redundant and the Kuka robot is obvious even when it works. I felt as though I was riding through a building peppered with some rock work and video. The queue came off as a room with gobos, not the depths of the ocean. Don't even get me started on the jellyfish.

The aquarium is a very small part of the ride and the efx sequence doesn't read like they intended. It looks like a plexi box with, once again, video reflection. The live creatures don't blend well visually with the CG characters.

At no time did the story engage me and at no time did I feel immersed in an undersea adventure. I'm aware of the space they had to work with but the footprint was large enough to deliver a more interesting story, better quality and more scenic as well as more unique displays and media delivery methods.

I don't have to compare HM or TOT to Nemo if you'd like, I can compare it to COP or Muppetvision or CinéMagique or Cranium Command, all of which are infinitely more entertaining and cutting edge (for the time they were introduced) and are also not E ticket attractions.

 

[hemloc]

Sorry, in my opinion this ride has very little entertainment value and was extremely disappointing to me and everyone else I personally know that has ridden it. This doesn't mean that some won't enjoy it. Of course I find Everest and Mission Space only mildly amusing and Test Track to be very poorly executed. My standards are high because this is Disney. I know what can be done. What we've seen in the last 10 years is the stale crumbs left from the banquet you can find in Tokyo for example.

The scenic work in Nemo is very basic and minimal. The reflection gags are redundant and the Kuka robot is obvious even when it works. I felt as though I was riding through a building peppered with some rock work and video. The queue came off as a room with gobos, not the depths of the ocean. Don't even get me started on the jellyfish.

The aquarium is a very small part of the ride and the efx sequence doesn't read like they intended. It looks like a plexi box with, once again, video reflection. The live creatures don't blend well visually with the CG characters.

At no time did the story engage me and at no time did I feel immersed in an undersea adventure. I'm aware of the space they had to work with but the footprint was large enough to deliver a more interesting story, better quality and more scenic as well as more unique displays and media delivery methods.

I don't have to compare HM or TOT to Nemo if you'd like, I can compare it to COP or Muppetvision or CinéMagique or Cranium Command, all of which are infinitely more entertaining and cutting edge (for the time they were introduced) and are also not E ticket attractions.

Tell that to all the little kids that get a kick out of it. I'm sure they would be grateful to hear it, along with the "Santa is NOT REAL!!!" bit... Seriously, if you're that bent out of shape over an attraction based on a CGI-toon, then I don't think I wanna' know what you get really bummed out over!!

 

[tirian]

It's a C-ticket omnimover meant to get you into the aquarium. That's it.

It's no worse than the static mannequins of Snow White's SA or the plywood cutouts in MTRR.

The "Tokyo banquet" comment is, unfortunately, absolutely correct.

EDIT: I guess TLS Nemo is closer to a D-ticket attraction.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

So, wait, did I just sell you on The Little Mermaid attraction being added to Disney's California Adventure and opening in 2011?

I should be an Imagineer! Or a car salesman! :lol:

The Little Mermaid theme does not fit in with the "California" theme of DCA. I stand by that.
I said earlier that everything needs to tie in to the core "theme" of the park or it'll stick out like a sore thumb. I was unaware of the aquarium aspect of it...and now that I know that...at least it's TRYING to tie the theme together. It's not just Ariel's Grotto in the middle of California.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's not just Ariel's Grotto in the middle of California.

No, because we already have an Ariel's Grotto in the middle of DCA. :shrug:

 

[whylightbulb]

Tell that to all the little kids that get a kick out of it. I'm sure they would be grateful to hear it, along with the "Santa is NOT REAL!!!" bit... Seriously, if you're that bent out of shape over an attraction based on a CGI-toon, then I don't think I wanna' know what you get really bummed out over!!

Little kids like Chucky Cheese also. Does that mean that is the standard we should expect from Disney?

Just because an attraction is based on a CGI toon it doesn't mean we shouldn't expect high quality and an entertaining experience for both young and old. Splash mountain is based on 2D characters and it certainly should be considered up to Disney standards. Monster Inc. ride in Tokyo will be based on CGI toon characters and it will be leap years ahead of Nemo in Florida.

 

[hemloc]

Just because an attraction is based on a CGI toon it doesn't mean we shouldn't expect high quality and an entertaining experience for both young and old. Splash mountain is based on 2D characters and it certainly should be considered up to Disney standards. Monster Inc. ride in Tokyo will be based on CGI toon characters and it will be leap years ahead of Nemo in Florida.

Have you ridden Snow White or Peter Pan before?? Or the old Mr. Toad?? Nemo is way more up to Disney standards than you imply, even though it's a 'simple' overlay on an existing attraction...

 

[WDWFREAK53]

No, because we already have an Ariel's Grotto in the middle of DCA. :shrug:

No, that's what I'm saying. It would be wrong to put an Ariel's Grotto in the middle of DCA...having it themed to an aquarium KINDA pulls it into the theme of the park.

 

[TP2000]

I was unaware of the aquarium aspect of it...and now that I know that...at least it's TRYING to tie the theme together. It's not just Ariel's Grotto in the middle of California.

Well, we already had Ariel's Grotto in the middle of California. It was located at the base of a giant Swiss mountain bobsled ride, within view of a pink Bavarian castle, just to the left of a spinning rocket ride. Naturally. Where else would you put Ariel's Grotto?! :ROFLOL:

Disney parks are funny things, especially the older ones. And Disneyland USA has some of the most bizarre thematic setups of any Disney environment. Yet, because it was plotted out and approved by Walt tromping around the latest addition in a hardhat from 1954-66, a lot of this bizarre stuff gets a complete pass from the Disney fan community.

But if Disneyland circa 1965, at the height of its Walt-led success and in the middle of a golden age, were to drop from the sky today and open as a Disney theme park most of us (myself probably included) would scream bloody murder over the chintzy themed elements, the placement of attractions and facilities, and the overall operation of the park.

Using the basic look of Disneyland's original Ariel's Grotto, that is now becoming Pixie Hollow, I would think The Little Mermaid E Ticket would look fabulous in WDW's Magic Kingdom where the old 20K ride used to be. I've been to Tokyo DisneySea, and their indoor Little Mermaid land was awesome inside and out!

But I don't think that type of look would go over as well in WDW's Fantasyland as the more muted colors of Disneyland's Ariels' Grotto rocky look. But then what do I know? Perhaps a Tokyo DisneySea type facade would work well in WDW's Fantasyland to hide the massive Little Mermaid ride show building.