Changes at DTD

[Pete C]

I like this idea. I think PI had too many clubs. If they had one or two really good clubs, reopened Adventurer's Club and Comedy Warehouse, and had some live music venues, PI would be set. They could bulldoze the rest and let third-party vendors have the space.

P.S. Germany's big restaurant is the "Biergarten".

Oh yeah, I forgot that was the name! However it is more of a restaurant, and a pricey one at that. Can you just go in there an drink beer? I usually just go to the place just outside if I want a beer, however you don't get the same atmosphere there.

 

[MousDad]

Actually we can blame the economy but it is/was not the sole problem. The skinny of it is that PI should not have been closed until at least a certain percentage of the buildings had signed contracts from new tenants.

Good thing they learned that lesson or they might have done something really brilliant like build a completely new shopping/hotel district before actually acquiring any tenants...oh wait.

 

[trr1]

Good thing they learned that lesson or they might have done something really brilliant like build a completely new shopping/hotel district before actually acquiring any tenants...oh wait.

I thought they only built the roads? were buildings built?

 

[WDWGoof07]

Oh yeah, I forgot that was the name! However it is more of a restaurant, and a pricey one at that. Can you just go in there an drink beer? I usually just go to the place just outside if I want a beer, however you don't get the same atmosphere there.

Oh I see what you mean. I actually don't know if you can just go in and enjoy the entertainment with a beer. Any Epcot experts care to chime in?

 

[jt04]

I agree with masteryoda. Couldn't have said it better.

What bothers me is that a lot of folks here have such a fatalistic outlook. Even if it's true that they completely mishandled the closure of PI, it doesn't mean things will stay the way they are now. In fact, we continue to see progress no matter how slow it is.

And there is also a remote possibility WDW could create a PI type of experience somewhere else on property isolated from other facilities. As it should have been done in the first place.

 

[Lee]

remote possibility

That right there is the key phrase of your post.
A remote possiblilty is not good enough. Bird in the hand kind of deal.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Per who?



Some Web Masters and Pod Cast Hosts have even fallen victim.:goodnevil

I know they can. The tech they can have and things they can do...endless and amazing!


And do you really think they would let PI sit there?

Ha!

PI is the only area that needs help,it will get it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What bothers me is that a lot of folks here have such a fatalistic outlook. Even if it's true that they completely mishandled the closure of PI, it doesn't mean things will stay the way they are now. In fact, we continue to see progress no matter how slow it is.

The handling of the closure is bigger than just Pleasure Island. It shows the actions of an arrogant management team that considered Disney to be above economic reality and far too good a prospect for potential tenants to be passed over. These guys thought the Walt Disney World brand had a drawing power much stronger than it does.

 

[jt04]

That right there is the key phrase of your post.
A remote possiblilty is not good enough. Bird in the hand kind of deal.

To me it's a no lose concept. Especially if it was part of a 21+ resort. By having a place that caters only to adults it gives Disney the option of creating land/sea vacation packages and also opens the resort up to people who might not consider going otherwise.

Anyway, I think Disney made the right choice getting out of the club business at DTD.

As for the AC, it should have it's own land or facility associated with the parks as has been discussed here many times.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To me it's a no lose concept. Especially if it was part of a 21+ resort. By having a place that caters only to adults it gives Disney the option of creating land/sea vacation packages and also opens the resort up to people who might not consider going otherwise.

Anyway, I think Disney made the right choice getting out of the club business at DTD.

As for the AC, it should have it's own land or facility associated with the parks as has been discussed here many times.

Placing clubs at or near Downtown Disney placed them at the periphery of the entire resort complex. Downtown Disney functions well because it sits on the edge of the property, being there for both guests and non-guests. Clubs at a resort, further into the property, sort of detracts from the idea of creating easy access for non-guests such as locals.

 

[MarkTwain]

I like this idea; It would have been far more effective in getting people to wander between the Marketplace and West Side than the parking lot sidewalk.

I'd have probably put the pathway in the parking lot in what would have effectively been an extension of the Marketplace itself, building more (small) shops along the waterway linking McDonald's/T-Rex with Planet Hollywood. No need to walk past P.I. if the Marketplace wraps around it, seamlessly transitioning into the West Side. Shoppers would have looked across the narrow canal at P.I., but Club patrons and Marketplace shoppers would have largely been seperated.

Problem is such ideas would have cost money and involved taking a risk, when it is so much easier to just close the clubs down and rent the space out to third party tenants ("bold new vision"). Of course, its obvious how well that brilliant plan worked out (and you cannot only blame the economy). Wonder if whomever came up with that winning idea got a bonus out of it?

This is what I was thinking. If you look at DTD on Google Maps, this really makes the most sense, since the parking lot is pretty much directly in between West Side and Marketplace anyway. Developing a new "district" on top of this lot and then building a parking structure would have allowed the continued operation of Pleasure Island, as well as connect both of the shopping/retails districts, add another shopping/retail district, and maybe even solved DTD's parking woes.

Why didn't do this? No pre-existing buildings to save the cost of construction?

 

[zulemara]

I agree with masteryoda. Couldn't have said it better.

What bothers me is that a lot of folks here have such a fatalistic outlook. Even if it's true that they completely mishandled the closure of PI, it doesn't mean things will stay the way they are now. In fact, we continue to see progress no matter how slow it is.

And there is also a remote possibility WDW could create a PI type of experience somewhere else on property isolated from other facilities. As it should have been done in the first place.

Yes, at this point, I just want them to get on with it. Had they started tearing down things right from the start, there would be much less hatred from PI fans. NOTHING that was announced during the closure was even on the island. Paradiso was announced before the closure was announced. I believe it would be easier to swallow if it had been a swift change. As far as I'm concerned, they are just pouring salt in wounds. Getting rid of the stairs on mannequins, yet keeping the gigantic friggin sign on the building. They try to hide the front of CW, yet the sign on the back remains. RRBC, closed even longer than the other clubs, yet the sign remains. Either there are clubs or there aren't, stop half assing the island.

There was no problem with PI and remember PI was there FIRST. It was a knee jerk reaction to City Walk and a lack of vision that created the mess that is the West Side. yet somehow, PI is the one that gets put out of a home.

 

[Studios Fan]

Placing clubs at or near Downtown Disney placed them at the periphery of the entire resort complex. Downtown Disney functions well because it sits on the edge of the property, being there for both guests and non-guests. Clubs at a resort, further into the property, sort of detracts from the idea of creating easy access for non-guests such as locals.

Well said.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Ideally PI never should have been build where it was. It should have been put over the water which would have allowed DTD to continue unobstructed from the market place to the west side.

Yes, but when PI was built there was no West Side so PI wasn't in the way of anything. It was later that West Side got built and PI became an obstruction.

Another problem is that there just isn't that much at West Side to draw those customers shopping at the Marketplace. Marketplace is full of mostly Disney souvenir stores. That's what people want when they come to DTD. When they look at the list of shops on the West Side, there aren't any Disney stores except Disney's Groove.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Actually we can blame the economy but it is/was not the sole problem. The skinny of it is that PI should not have been closed until at least a certain percentage of the buildings had signed contracts from new tenants. That was the biggest mistake. If demolition and new construction started the day after PI closed PI would be no where near as bad off as it currently is.

I agree! But this past September the Save Pleasure Island blog said this about that:

Source also said that when RRBC closed earlier in 2008 before the recession hit, the outsource contract on it sold almost immediately. Disney saw how quickly that happened so they reasoned they could do that with all the clubs so they arranged for all the clubs to close. Unfortunately the recession really kicked-in and by late 2008 there were no takers, the deals that were in the works collapsed (including RRBC) and they were left with no options.

 

[jt04]

Before there was a PI there was this....

http://www.omniluxe.net/wyw/wdwv1.htm


Very few people who actually visited this well planned complex would see the PI/West End adds as a step forward. That said, there is probably no going back. However the planning and thought that went into the original plans can be applied to the new DTD. I think it is taking so long because they want to make sure they get it right this time. It's not just the economy. Sometimes it's better to do nothing than to do something in haste and regret it later. It appears that so far the only firm decisions that have been made are what won't be there in the future. I have no problem waiting if it means we get Disney's best quality ideas.

 

[EpcotServo]

The news was reporting that Chrurchstreet Station is on the brink of a bright future...Ironic seeing as how Pleasure Island shut it down...now pleasure island is shut down, it has a bright future...hurrm....

 

[jt04]

The news was reporting that Chrurchstreet Station is on the brink of a bright future...Ironic seeing as how Pleasure Island shut it down...now pleasure island is shut down, it has a bright future...hurrm....

See, Disney is being a good community citizen. Win-Win.

 

[zulemara]

The news was reporting that Chrurchstreet Station is on the brink of a bright future...Ironic seeing as how Pleasure Island shut it down...now pleasure island is shut down, it has a bright future...hurrm....

I would love to see it revived, but so far all I see is bankruptcy. In fact, they just auctioned off all the stuff from cheyanne(sp?) Saloon. Doesn't look too bright to me, unless someone with 38 million plans on buying it and actually has the vision to make it successful.

I have the vision, the ideas, the whole place planned out. I just need the money :wave:

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, but when PI was built there was no West Side so PI wasn't in the way of anything. It was later that West Side got built and PI became an obstruction.

I swore I wasn't gonna post in another thread about PI, but that is a key point that really needs to be drummed home!

PI was at the END of the Village/Marketplace.

Westside made a mess of things because Disney's retail and marketing mavens wanted a seamless transition and PI was smack dab in the middle.

Ultimately, this is why they killed it.

You can't have a mall with a nightclub complex blocking the middle.
It's very simple.

And while I like Cirque (although it's time for a new show and the bookings prove it) and HoB and Puck's and used to like Virgin quite a bit, I wish none of it had been built.

PI worked when it wasn't 'the middle child'.

Another problem is that there just isn't that much at West Side to draw those customers shopping at the Marketplace. Marketplace is full of mostly Disney souvenir stores. That's what people want when they come to DTD. When they look at the list of shops on the West Side, there aren't any Disney stores except Disney's Groove.

I don't know about that. The Village did fine for many years with only ONE Disney crap store. Now, everything is. :xmas: