Like I said hind site is always 20/20. I have always wondered if someone in that design meeting said "PI's location is going to become problematic if we expand DTD" only to be given the canned "We will cross that bridge when we come to it" response.
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Changes at DTD
- Thread starter ImaYoyo
- Start date
GymLeaderPhil
Well-Known Member
And then they demolished the bridge. :hammer:
71jason
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The huge, free parking area and and the relative ease in finding PI from I-4 were big factors in pulling locals (especially those 25+) and off-site guests away from CSS and downtown Orlando. I think lack of marketing is the #1 reason Atlantic Dance is always dead, but I imagine transportation is a close #2. The idea of having to show your license to park and then having to walk the better part of a mile turns a lot of people off.
Also keep in mind, hotel guests don't want a rowdy crowd wandering around at 2:00 a.m. I know there are plenty of Boardwalk DVC members who would be happy if Jelly Rolls and ADH were to disappear. PI solved that problem by isolating the party (and providing free buses until 2:30).
71jason
Well-Known Member
I would argue the failure of the West Side started the chain of events that led to PI's demise. WS was never meant to be a "continuation" of the Marketplace--it was more to be the EPCOT Center to Marketplace's Magic Kingdom. You can see it was originally going to be more "grown-up" restaurants and shops--Wolfgang Puck, Cirque, an art gallery, a guitar store, a Disneyfied version of Hot Topic...it was aimed pretty squarely at the PI crowd, get them for dinner or some window-shopping before the party starts. They more or less failed from the start, and had to throw in Planet Hollywood and DQ. Had it worked, tho, you'd have had two more or less separate areas (MP and PI/WS) sitting side by side but without a whole lot of guest overlap.
I think the market has changed too much. When CSS was huge, the majority of WDW guests drove down here and stayed off-site. Now instead of 3 hotels, WDW has like 20,000 rooms, with a great number of guests who flew in and rode Magic Express to the resort. PI accelerated CSS's demise, but it was bound to go the way of north I-Drive sooner rather than later.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Excellent and informative post. I'd just add that the demise of CSS and PI can be also traced to the changing tastes of baby boomers. Always follow what boomers are doing. They are still the dominate movers of all trends. Not the only factor, just the biggest factor.
A revamp of the clubs, perhaps a ultra lounge style concept, a dinner show concept tied in with Ad Club, new music format on certain nights in Mannequins and the demolition of Motion would have fixed most of the problems at PI. Following the baby boomer logic that is.
I see plenty of baby boomers who love to go to a fancy ultra lounge style places, spend $150 on bottles and act like they are millionaires. PI didn't have that, it should have, it would have done well!
I see them, they love to spend money in sports type bars. Again, PI didn't have that, it should have and it would have done well! Changing Disney Quest to an ESPN Zone would be a no brainier in my book. This would help bring life to that area, remove the bridge and contuine the PI theme, all the way down into the west side to tie this in.
Look at the success of the dinner shows on property. Tell me that if Ad Club, would have taken over the BET space, and became a nightly dinner experience with a show and reception after the show in the current ad club space, tell me that would not have been a cash cow.
The problem, is a lack of vision in Management. The use of spreadsheets and surveys that are easily manipulated, intead of takeing a risk and using the old "Gut Feeling"
This is by no means limited to PI. it's a problem all over the the WD Company. PI just happens to be the first major (though, not the ONLY) sign of this.
I see plenty of baby boomers who love to go to a fancy ultra lounge style places, spend $150 on bottles and act like they are millionaires. PI didn't have that, it should have, it would have done well!
I see them, they love to spend money in sports type bars. Again, PI didn't have that, it should have and it would have done well! Changing Disney Quest to an ESPN Zone would be a no brainier in my book. This would help bring life to that area, remove the bridge and contuine the PI theme, all the way down into the west side to tie this in.
Look at the success of the dinner shows on property. Tell me that if Ad Club, would have taken over the BET space, and became a nightly dinner experience with a show and reception after the show in the current ad club space, tell me that would not have been a cash cow.
The problem, is a lack of vision in Management. The use of spreadsheets and surveys that are easily manipulated, intead of takeing a risk and using the old "Gut Feeling"
This is by no means limited to PI. it's a problem all over the the WD Company. PI just happens to be the first major (though, not the ONLY) sign of this.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
That would be an obscenely huge ESPN Zone and Disney Quest's building design is so specific that it would practically require the complete destruction of the current building to shoehorn a restaurant in there. I think the former Virgin Megastore would be better suited for conversion to an ESPN zone. It's not much larger than the one they have at DTD in DLR.
Christi22222
Active Member
I think this might be more of the problem than the solution. Baby boomers are getting old, folks. The very very youngest boomers are mid 40's. I don't think the world should cater to the new young tech folks only, but to continue basing the world on boomers is ridiculous. There is a whole universe of 30 and 40 somethings that are influenced completely differently than the boomers and have a lot of energy and money. Because there is no cute name to unify them and make them a mass, they sometimes get ignored...x generation, y generation, echo boomers, whatever. But I sincerely believe that group is where the current trends lie but no one seems to get a handle on it because they fall between the so much more clearly defined boomers and me generation. Why does market research always go for the easy and obvious? Easy money doesn't alwasy equate to the most profitable avenue. That, I would argue, is the entire basis of Disney.
Another issue I take with comments above is the entire separate "anyone over 21 and wanting to party" from "anyone with a family." NOT separate groups, folks, which is why PI worked. LOTS of moms and dads are wanting an adult break from the kids for the night, not for a week. LOTS of moms and dads want to go out for an evening on the town on vacation, when they might not go out ever in the 5 years prior to that. PI was perfect for that. You absolutely can not separate the "family" crowd from the "party" crowd. They overlap. Just because you want to go out for an evening does NOT mean you want to stay at an over 21 resort where everyone wants to party like they're still in college every night. Seriously, there is no division between "party people" and "not party people" for the most part. There are "times to party" and "not time to party." Most folks would put me in the "not party" crowd, but I like the option to go out and have a good time once a year when I'm for once not wearing my "Mom" hat. But that is only for an evening, not a whole vacation! And I need it to be easy and safe, because I'm going to go back to my room and be ready to hit the parks again with my kids in the am. I don't want to deal with driving after I drink, and I don't want to do research to find the appropriate place to have fun. I want to see it while I'm shopping at market place or on my hotel TV and think that sounds fun we should go tonight. And then hop on the same bus I know how to find and comes to my hotel with no extra call or arrangements. Easy.
jt04
Well-Known Member
I think they should consider moving Hoop-dee-doo to DTD.
GymLeaderPhil
Well-Known Member
The Pleasure Island catwalk and DJ booth inbetween Sosa and Harley are completely gone. Stairs on both sides are still standing and you can see where they tore it off. Construction walls on both sides with the afformentioned Walt Disney quotes.
They (or some eBay hopeful) tried pulling the Spinx statue off from the exterior of the Adv Club.
Looks like there's a private function in Motion.
Pictures in a little while.
They (or some eBay hopeful) tried pulling the Spinx statue off from the exterior of the Adv Club.
Looks like there's a private function in Motion.
Pictures in a little while.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Uh-oh. :lookaroun
Are there walls around the AC?
And who is "they"? :lookaroun
Has anyone seen Lee lately? :zipit:
Can't wait for the evidence....I mean pics.
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
No, the walls are around Sosa and the PI Live bar.
GymLeaderPhil
Well-Known Member
GymLeaderPhil
Well-Known Member
Oh and the Mannequins stairs...
Master Gracey
Well-Known Member
Does it sicken anyone else that they are using the words of this great man to justify their mistake? When they finaly admit that this "bold new vision" has blown up in their face I hope that the walls put up, as they reconstruct Pleasure Island, read:
"I think it's important to have a good hard failure when you're young. I learned a lot out of that. Because it makes you kind of aware of what can happen to you." -Walt Disney
as well as:
"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you." -Walt Disney
and:
"We told you so." -The Guests
Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!
KUNGALOOSH!
Figment632
New Member
Walt was fine with failure and said everybody should have at least one major failure. Now lest see how they learn from the mistake and rectify the situation.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Nope. Nothing. Nothing has been announced. We only have Bold, New Quotes.