Simple answer....Disney saw that they were delivering money to the owners of Church Street Station in dump trucks and they wanted a piece of it.
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Changes at DTD
- Thread starter ImaYoyo
- Start date
71jason
Well-Known Member
Right--and they dress up in "clubbing" clothes when they do it, to really sell the political theater.
And how many "tired" venues measure their revenues in the tens of thousands every night? Wasn't as great as it once was, due to incompetent management, but the concept remained sound, and the market was and is still there.
hack2112
Active Member
See: CityWalk
citywalk is crap. wheres my techno? wheres my comedy warehouse? wheres my 70s and 80s? its nowhere near what pi was
hack2112
Active Member
True, but it shows that the market is there and it's big, if you know how to capture it.
Pete C
Active Member
Is DTD seriously going to give up the club scene entirely? I think that is stupid. There is clearly a market there for vacationers from across the world to go dancing at night. PI was just insanely out of date. You have to stay new, new, new in that business or places just look stale and people stop going. They just need one major, elaborate 21+ club that plays uncensored top hits, and one lounge type club that is more low key. Perhaps even have a top 40 club that is for 18+ too. That would make DTD more competitive with CityWalk and give Disney vacationers some real nightlife options. They can't worry about drunk people spilling out onto the main DTD drag. The world showcase at Epcot is already a drunk fest and Disney seems more than happy to cater to drinkers with their new tequila bar...which was overflowing with people on my last visit. On that note...I'd love to see a Beer Garden concept like the one axed from DCA integrated into Germany.
From everything we have heard yes but that does not mean that Disney has given up on the club scene. Rix and to a point Atlantic Dance company and Jellyrolls are evidence of that. I do not think that we will ever see a night club conglomerate like PI at WDW again but I think we will see clubs appear at some of the resorts.
Figment632
New Member
I don't get it were they losing money on the PI clubs?
Top 40s can already be found at ADH and any other club in Orlando. Everyone plays Top 40s but no one plays techno every night of the week, or 70s/80s every night of the week. Give me back mannequins and 8-trax and I'd consider it a done deal. They should have closed Motion and BET and left the others. That's where all the trouble was.
edit: and as much as I wanna agree that ADH and jellyrolls are evidence that WDW has not given up on nightlife, I have to point out that both venues are there due to the contract with the swan/dolphin(along with the ESPN place) That's the only reason they are there. If it weren't for that contract, I don't doubt for a second WDW would shut them down as well.
I like this idea. I think PI had too many clubs. If they had one or two really good clubs, reopened Adventurer's Club and Comedy Warehouse, and had some live music venues, PI would be set. They could bulldoze the rest and let third-party vendors have the space.
P.S. Germany's big restaurant is the "Biergarten".
That's an interesting thought. I could see clubs at the resorts as highly themed, uniquely Disney nightlife experiences. That's much better than the generic clubs at PI, of which I was never a fan. Of course Disney should have something that will directly compete with CityWalk because there is obviously a market for it, but making highly themed clubs at some of the resorts is another way for Disney to set itself apart from the rest.
Bad management aside there were 3 big problems that I saw with PI and IMHO were what lead to it's demise.
1. Location. Having it at DTD was not a problem but having it "in" DTD was. Prior to having the turnstiles removed the only way to get around it was a narrow sidewalk next to moving traffic. Having the huge number of guests that visit DTD do this was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. IMHO Disney had 2 obvious was to fix this. The first was to build a wide boardwalk style walk way over the lake to bypass PI. Add some stretmosphere and a few vendors and you would have a great transition from the market place to the Westside and PI remains exclusive. The second was to get rid of the turnstiles. We see how well that worked out.
2. Retailers on the island. This was the only remotely legit reason for getting rid of the turnstiles but they never should have been there in the first place. People who are there for a night club as a general rule are not there to shop. Remove the retailers and let PI be just clubs. At most have a PI specific store akin to what Planet Hollywood has.
3. Age limit. PI should have been 18 and up...period.
1. Location. Having it at DTD was not a problem but having it "in" DTD was. Prior to having the turnstiles removed the only way to get around it was a narrow sidewalk next to moving traffic. Having the huge number of guests that visit DTD do this was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. IMHO Disney had 2 obvious was to fix this. The first was to build a wide boardwalk style walk way over the lake to bypass PI. Add some stretmosphere and a few vendors and you would have a great transition from the market place to the Westside and PI remains exclusive. The second was to get rid of the turnstiles. We see how well that worked out.
2. Retailers on the island. This was the only remotely legit reason for getting rid of the turnstiles but they never should have been there in the first place. People who are there for a night club as a general rule are not there to shop. Remove the retailers and let PI be just clubs. At most have a PI specific store akin to what Planet Hollywood has.
3. Age limit. PI should have been 18 and up...period.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
I think that as long as it was isolated it would have been fine. In a nut shell no one should have had to go through or around it. If you were on the island it was because you wanted to be.
Lee
Adventurer
Yep.
The obvious solution was a large pedestrian walkway from the turnaround by McDonalds to the plaza by the AMC. Run it along the waterfront, make it scenic....problem solved.
That little sidewalk, waaaaayyy around Planet Hollywood and next to the traffic flow was a recipe for failure.
CDavid
Well-Known Member
I like this idea; It would have been far more effective in getting people to wander between the Marketplace and West Side than the parking lot sidewalk.
I'd have probably put the pathway in the parking lot in what would have effectively been an extension of the Marketplace itself, building more (small) shops along the waterway linking McDonald's/T-Rex with Planet Hollywood. No need to walk past P.I. if the Marketplace wraps around it, seamlessly transitioning into the West Side. Shoppers would have looked across the narrow canal at P.I., but Club patrons and Marketplace shoppers would have largely been seperated.
Problem is such ideas would have cost money and involved taking a risk, when it is so much easier to just close the clubs down and rent the space out to third party tenants ("bold new vision"). Of course, its obvious how well that brilliant plan worked out (and you cannot only blame the economy). Wonder if whomever came up with that winning idea got a bonus out of it?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The West Side was obviously added in a manner so as to try and keep parking close to the two shopping centers. The layout is that of a mall and the West Side is set up in the manner even more than the Marketplace. Disney seems to have miscalculated how many people would have to walk, or maybe even choose to walk, between the West Side and the Marketplace.
I disagree that a large dedicated walkway would have been the appropriate solution. That is still a rather long, barren walk. I would have instead opted to provide some sort of localized transportation system. A little trolley system would have added a lot of vibrancy, sound and movement to the areas, especially if they penetrated some of the shopping districts.
Figment632
New Member
tta!!!!!
Actually we can blame the economy but it is/was not the sole problem. The skinny of it is that PI should not have been closed until at least a certain percentage of the buildings had signed contracts from new tenants. That was the biggest mistake. If demolition and new construction started the day after PI closed PI would be no where near as bad off as it currently is.
True. That is why I suggested putting some stretmosphre and a few vendors on it. A few sights, sound and smells really make a long walk much shorter. Ideally PI never should have been build where it was. It should have been put over the water which would have allowed DTD to continue unobstructed from the market place to the west side. But hind site is always 20/20.