Captain America 4

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Compelling movies find audiences…

Unwanted ones are ignored
Exactly.
The whole point was that Feige and team aren't going to reuse a story line so soon after its use in a previous show or movie, it doesn't matter if SirWalt thinks no one saw it. They aren't going to give any review bombers any ammunition to add fuel to the fire.
Yes, of course they won't tell the same story line beat for beat a 2nd time. But I guarantee no one at marvel or Disney said, we can't do that because of review bombers. Heck they basically retold a new hope with force awakens. So obviously Disney has no problem reusing story. So I'm with you that they wouldn't, but not the why they wouldn't.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Yes, of course they won't tell the same story line beat for beat a 2nd time.
Sony did with Amazing Spider-Man, its the exact reason why Feige didn't with Homecoming in the MCU because it would have been for a 3rd time.

But I guarantee no one at marvel or Disney said, we can't do that because of review bombers. Heck they basically retold a new hope with force awakens. So obviously Disney has no problem reusing story. So I'm with you that they wouldn't, but not the why they wouldn't.
Never claimed they did, I was just saying no reason to do it for that reason also not that Disney is making decisions because of it.

The New Hope to Force Awakens "retelling" is different in that its not a direct retelling of the same story with the same characters, which is what is being talked about.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Furiosa?

Edit - I see that was named. I agree, this is definitely one that qualifies. Any movie that has found a life after theatrical in an asymmetric way also counts. Certainly not common, but they do exist.
Shawshank bombed upon first release…

But these things are almost the infinitesimal outliers

Now refresh me…was furiosa review bombed?
Because we’re twisting as always

The contention is/was…especially over the last couple of years…is that a few negatives from the dark web are taking “good” movies down…

Which I can see a dust….errr I mean…”gut” instinct at first…
…but then when those films get no traction and are forgotten in short order after they exit theaters…maybe they just suck?
 

DKampy

Well-Known Member
Shawshank bombed upon first release…

But these things are almost the infinitesimal outliers

Now refresh me…was furiosa review bombed?
Because we’re twisting as always

The contention is/was…especially over the last couple of years…is that a few negatives from the dark web are taking “good” movies down…

Which I can see a dust….errr I mean…”gut” instinct at first…
…but then when those films get no traction and are forgotten in short order after they exit theaters…maybe they just suck?
you move the goalposts…. Your original discernment was no one can name a movie that did not find an audience that was compelling.. which you present as an absolute truth….when People do…well yes but reasons

Of the 3 I mentioned…. You said Furiosa was the most surprising…IMO it was the least surprising…. Despite how people remember the franchise…. Mad Max films has never brought in blockbuster grosses

I kept it towards the blockbuster framing for a reason…. Shawshank Redemption was put on people’s radars later due Awards consideration and most critics (which people here say the general audience does not care about)saying it was among the best films of all time… as someone who goes to the theaters frequently…. I see compelling movies all the time that never find an audience… Vengence was one of my favorite films of 2022…. It has an 82 critics and an 86 audience score on rotten tomatoes…yet most of the general public probably has no idea what that film is
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
you move the goalposts…. Your original discernment was no one can name a movie that did not find an audience that was compelling.. which you present as an absolute truth….when People do…well yes but reasons

Of the 3 I mentioned…. You said Furiosa was the most surprising…IMO it was the least surprising…. Despite how people remember the franchise…. Mad Max films has never brought in blockbuster grosses

I kept it towards the blockbuster framing for a reason…. Shawshank Redemption was put on people’s radars later due Awards consideration and most critics (which people here say the general audience does not care about)saying it was among the best films of all time… as someone who goes to the theaters frequently…. I see compelling movies all the time that never find an audience… Vengence was one of my favorite films of 2022…. It has an 82 critics and an 86 audience score on rotten tomatoes…yet most of the general public probably has no idea what that film is
The goalposts have been on roller skates in the movie discussion threads for the last few years.

Including me and the guy in your mirror.

But at least they’re good discussions for the most part…unlike ones about parades or DAS…yikes 😬

And there are no absolutes. Every adult knows that. Most also know that grammar police gets old in middle school and a life without metaphor is BORING

…but we all have tastes
 
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erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
you move the goalposts…. Your original discernment was no one can name a movie that did not find an audience that was compelling.. which you present as an absolute truth
But this whole discussion was revolving around, review bombing was hurting the films. So in my opinion that's how I took it. So when he says compelling movies find an audience, that's the context I took it under. If strange world was compelling enough, the review bombing wouldn't matter.
Sony did with Amazing Spider-Man
Hence why I said of course they wouldn't do it. That's the reason. Review bombing isn't a blip on the radar as to why. And If they wanted to to reuse the story, I don't believe Disney would have a problem with doing it. But as you said, that wasn't going to happen.
Never claimed they did,
Kinda sounded like you did. Then why even bring it up.
"You really don't think that the internet would review bomb an MCU movie if it was found out that they had reused the same storyline"
You said it as if it was something disney would be concerned about.
The New Hope to Force Awakens "retelling" is different in that its not a direct retelling of the same story with the same characters
Wait, so you said, reused the same story line. That's exactly what they did with TFA. Sure it wasn't the same characters, but it's just as bad. So your review bomb statement wouldn't hold true if cap 4 was an identical mcu story they had already done, just with different characters?
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Hence why I said of course they wouldn't do it. That's the reason. Review bombing isn't a blip on the radar as to why. And If they wanted to to reuse the story, I don't believe Disney would have a problem with doing it. But as you said, that wasn't going to happen.

Kinda sounded like you did. Then why even bring it up.
"You really don't think that the internet would review bomb an MCU movie if it was found out that they had reused the same storyline"
You said it as if it was something disney would be concerned about.
Once again I never made the claim or even alluded to that Disney was making decisions based on review bombing. I was just saying that I don't think they would do something that would also add fuel to the fire in that regard, ie my opinion only.

Wait, so you said, reused the same story line. That's exactly what they did with TFA. Sure it wasn't the same characters, but it's just as bad. So your review bomb statement wouldn't hold true if cap 4 was an identical mcu story they had already done, just with different characters?
In comics different characters fight other characters that others already fought before, its a normal comics trope, so I don't see that as reusing the same story line. But if in the movie Sam fights the exact same character in exact same way as in the show from just 2 years ago (as was the suggestion by the original poster), that is an identical reused story line. Heck I don't even see an issue with reusing a story line when its decades apart, just not when its so soon after its previous use. So if the MCU wants to retell the Sam fight US Agent (Hydra Cap) story again from FatWS in like a decade or two I'd be down to see it, but not 2 years after they already just did it.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I have no issue with reboots, remakes, retellings, or even reused story lines in general. My point has been and will continue to be, I have an issue with it being done only 2 years after the previous attempt, and my guess is the public will too.
Are you talking the Spider-Man thing again?

Now it’s my turn: nobody is talking about this…or advocating for it.
It’s just something Hollywood does. And a lot of times that enough. I think no way home was kinda dumb…but it made bank. I think ultimately endgame was a mistake…and it beat records like a red headed stepchild

There are hits that are bad…there are flops…there are good movies out of the mainstream that no one watches or that get cult pull longterm. I can think of a lot of those.

But the contention was the internet taking down movies on an agenda. Maybe people have agnedas?…especially in this current environment or “misplaced rage”…
But I don’t see how vloggers or forums keep a mass audience out of the theater? At least not to outright tank something that is enjoyable
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
And by the way…before amnesia to prove a point sets in. Doing a reboot of Star Wars was the most obvious, dim witted move in Hollywood history. Would have take 4 minutes on the street talking to people to realize no one on the planet wanted a new Version of ANH…Jedi was ridiculed for decades for that and it was no where near as redundant with the characters.

Just a reminder
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Are you talking the Spider-Man thing again?
Nope, you lost the conversation again.

Now it’s my turn: nobody is talking about this…or advocating for it.
It’s just something Hollywood does. And a lot of times that enough.
Obviously people are talking about, we're talking about it, unless you don't count yourself or any of us people.

I think no way home was kinda dumb…but it made bank. I think ultimately endgame was a mistake…and it beat records like a red headed stepchild
Not sure what any of this has to do with this conversation.

There are hits that are bad…there are flops…there are good movies out of the mainstream that no one watches or that get cult pull longterm. I can think of a lot of those.

But the contention was the internet taking down movies on an agenda. Maybe people have agnedas?…especially in this current environment or “misplaced rage”…
But I don’t see how vloggers or forums keep a mass audience out of the theater? At least not to outright tank something that is enjoyable
I've understood your opinion, understood it the 3000 other times you've said it, but you've continued to miss the whole point in relation to this movie. Which is why I've moved on from that whole thing, its only you and erasure that want to continue discussing it. Just let it go.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Nope, you lost the conversation again.


Obviously people are talking about, we're talking about it, unless you don't count yourself or any of us people.


Not sure what any of this has to do with this conversation.


I've understood your opinion, understood it the 3000 other times you've said it, but you've continued to miss the whole point in relation to this movie. Which is why I've moved on from that whole thing, its only you and erasure that want to continue discussing it. Just let it go.
Now its funny…a pleasure as always 👍🏻👍🏻
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
But this whole discussion was revolving around, review bombing was hurting the films. So in my opinion that's how I took it. So when he says compelling movies find an audience, that's the context I took it under. If strange world was compelling enough, the review bombing wouldn't matter.

Even though I agree you guys on the review bomb piece. We’ve now set an impossible task. Even if I could find a great movie that was review bombed and did poorly… the follow up would be “but it’s not good, look how bad the audience score is”.

Compelling movies do not always find an audience, that’s really not true, but I also don’t think review bombing matters that significantly.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Even though I agree you guys on the review bomb piece. We’ve now set an impossible task. Even if I could find a great movie that was review bombed and did poorly… the follow up would be “but it’s not good, look how bad the audience score is”.
I think it's being taken too literally. We are never dealing in absolutes. There's no such thing as always or never. You can probably find a movie that was good or compelling that was affected by review bombing. Just as you can probably find a movie that was compelling that didn't find an audience.

In the context of has been talked about here, what @Sirwalterraleigh said holds true in my opinion. Compelling films generally find an audience and the bad/meh, not so much. Review bombing didn't hurt wish, lightyear, strange world, the marvels, the acolyte... They just weren't that good. Things like elemental, Moana and inside out all found an audience with plenty of bogus reviews reviews out there.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think it's being taken too literally. We are never dealing in absolutes. There's no such thing as always or never. You can probably find a movie that was good or compelling that was effected by review bombing. Just as you can probably find a movie that was compelling that didn't find an audience.

In the context of has been talked about here, what @Sirwalterraleigh said holds true in my opinion. Compelling films generally find an audience and the bad/meh, not so much. Review bombing didn't hurt wish, lightyear, strange world, the marvels, the acolyte... They just weren't that good. Things like elemental, Moana and inside out all found an audience with plenty of bogus reviews reviews out there.

Elemental is a really good example. Wasn’t “review bombed”…per se…but Disney - and Hollywood in general - were hatching stinker after stinker and it suffered out of the gate…but found an audience.

2023: the year of suck
 

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