Captain America 4

[erasure fan1]

Elemental is a really good example. Wasn’t “review bombed”…per se…but Disney - and Hollywood in general - were hatching stinker after stinker and it suffered out of the gate…but found an audience.

2023: the year of suck

They tried with that small part, but it fell on deaf ears. You are correct, it struggled out of the gate, not because of bombing, but because of the poor output prior. Plain and simple.

 

[DKampy]

Deadline is reporting budget for Captain America is 180.,., so that is what I am going with for now …. As that is a reliable trade…. Their projections are 95 Million for the 3 day domestic

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Deadline is reporting budget for Captain America is 180.,., so that is what I am going with for now …. As that is a reliable trade…. Their projections are 95 Million for the 3 day domestic

I bet that’s low on budget and high on projection…but let it play

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney is having their paid media lie again. I guess this is what they feel they have to do now. To try and save face. They have the Hollywood Reporter, Variety and Deadline (owned by the same company) lie for 2 years and hope people just forget about it. Below is just the budget for their films without the 100 to 150 in advertisements.

Captain Falcon - 180 million (actual budget TBD, rumored to be 350 million)
Dr Strange 2 - 200 million (actual budget - 415 million)
Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania- 200 million (actual budget - 330 million)
The Marvels - 200 million (actual budget - 374 million)

Source?

 

[DKampy]

Disney is having their paid media lie again. I guess this is what they feel they have to do now. To try and save face. They have the Hollywood Reporter, Variety and Deadline (owned by the same company) lie for 2 years and hope people just forget about it. Below is just the budget for their films without the 100 to 150 in advertisements.

Captain Falcon - 180 million (actual budget TBD, rumored to be 350 million)
Dr Strange 2 - 200 million (actual budget - 415 million)
Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania- 200 million (actual budget - 330 million)
The Marvels - 200 million (actual budget - 374 million)

Well some of us get our news from actual journalists and others get their news from the Hatetubers

 

[DKampy]

Source?

That’s the narrative being spun by the angry youtubers

 

[BrianLo]

Box Office: ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Summoning 2022’s Biggest Domestic Opening

Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is projected to land 2022's biggest domestic box office debut.

variety.com

Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Sets Disney+ Premiere Date

Disney+ subscribers will be able to jump into the Quantum Realm next month when “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” hits the streaming service.

variety.com

Here is two of them, but you probably still won't believe it.

Are you comparing apples to oranges here? A reported line item versus the total.

As an aside - I’ve now realized some of this “industry reporting” I think you are referencing has been done by Caroline Reid at Forbes who is quite literally a hack that constantly misrepresents figures in her rambling articles.

 

[DKampy]

Box Office: ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Summoning 2022’s Biggest Domestic Opening

Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is projected to land 2022's biggest domestic box office debut.

variety.com

Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Sets Disney+ Premiere Date

Disney+ subscribers will be able to jump into the Quantum Realm next month when “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” hits the streaming service.

variety.com

Here is two of them, but you probably still won't believe it.

Not really sure what your point is…. Since both articles literally state the budget was 200 million

 

[BrianLo]

Not really sure what your point is…. Since both articles literally state the budget was 200 million

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

 

[DKampy]

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

Yes I saw your post after his…. It appears his figure was equal to all the other promotional costs in your figures

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well some of us get our news from actual journalists and others get their news from the Hatetubers

If you’re “actual journalists” at writing down what someone from behind a microphone with a dopey nametag is saying…

…they got you (again)


Are those budgets that out of whack? Probably not…

But they were bombing $250+ (by their own admission) budget movies 18 months ago…and now…all of the sudden…all budgets are half that?

I have magic beans to see you.

Marvels was $300 and Captain America was $150?

Gotta use the nose to sniff it out here

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

The point is…there’s spin here. That’s not a controversial take (but I’m sure McAngry Will make it one )

 

[Disney Irish]

If you’re “actual journalists” at writing down what someone from behind a microphone with a dopey nametag is saying…

…they got you (again)


Are those budgets that out of whack? Probably not…

But they were bombing $250+ (by their own admission) budget movies 18 months ago…and now…all of the sudden…all budgets are half that?

I have magic beans to see you.

Marvels was $300 and Captain America was $150?

Gotta use the nose to sniff it out here

Why is it so hard to believe that Disney has reigned in budgets? You do know that most blockbuster movies aren’t made the same year they come out right? There is usually a 2-3 year gap between the time the movie gets budgeted to the time it’s released. So budgets for movie x in 2023 was set likely in 2020-2021. This is before they started to reign in budgets, which began in 2022. So only now are we starting to see the fruits of that effort.

I believe we went over all this in the box office thread at one point during 2023, that it wouldn’t be until this year, 2025, that we’d see the budgets start to come down.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Why is it so hard to believe that Disney has reigned in budgets? You do know that most blockbuster movies aren’t made the same year they come out right? There is usually a 2-3 year gap between the time the movie gets budgeted to the time it’s released. So budgets for movie x in 2023 was set likely in 2020-2021. This is before they started to reign in budgets, which began in 2022. So only now are we starting to see the fruits of that effort.

I believe we went over all this in the box office thread at one point during 2023, that it wouldn’t be until this year, 2025, that we’d see the budgets start to come down.

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

I agree they needed too…it’s just highly convenient they bomb like NINE…and with a thanos type snap we already halved them?

If that’s the case…then it just as well would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

 

[Disney Irish]

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

I agree they needed too…it’s just highly convenient they bomb like NINE…and with a thanos type snap we already halved them?

If that’s the case…then is would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

I don't know how you see fraud especially with no proof, which is also a strong word which has legal ramifications. You should not throw around that word so lightly without proof.

Also how does any company slash costs from one year to the next, or even one quarter to the next? They just do it. They say things like "Hey no more using that more expensive vendor for xyz and instead use this vendor that does the same thing but for less", for example. In movies, specifically the MCU movies, they do things like slashing the budget on VFX, remember the Marvel Head of VFX Victoria Alonso that was let go a few years ago, things like that.

 

[Agent H]

And by the way…before amnesia to prove a point sets in. Doing a reboot of Star Wars was the most obvious, dim witted move in Hollywood history. Would have take 4 minutes on the street talking to people to realize no one on the planet wanted a new Version of ANH…Jedi was ridiculed for decades for that and it was no where near as redundant with the characters.

Just a reminder

That’s funny return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie oh well

 

[BrianLo]

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

Mixed a tad with cap 4 being a bit more grounded and cgi capped to likely just act 3

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

For the MCU VFX is one of the biggest expenses, as its said they overworked all the VFX artists due to redoing many shots multiple times leading to them unionize in 2023. The head of VFX for Marvel was let go in March 2023, rumors were that she was part of the reason for the cost overruns on the VFX (even though her being let go was rumored to be due to a non-compete clause by her working on an Amazon Studios project). So they've worked to bring down the VFX costs a lot over the last couple years.

But I do agree we've come out of the pandemic extra costs era and now back to a more normal budget.

 

[BrianLo]

For the MCU VFX is one of the biggest expenses, as its said they overworked all the VFX artists due to redoing many shots multiple times leading to them unionize in 2023. The head of VFX for Marvel was let go in March 2023, rumors were that she was part of the reason for the cost overruns on the VFX (even though her being let go was rumored to be due to a non-compete clause by her working on an Amazon Studios project). So they've worked to bring down the VFX costs a lot over the last couple years.

Edited in a comment that I also suspect Cap 4 has less VFX than Average.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't know how you see fraud especially with no proof, which is also a strong word which has legal ramifications. You should not throw around that word so lightly without proof.

Also how does any company slash costs from one year to the next, or even one quarter to the next? They just do it. They say things like "Hey no more using that more expensive vendor for xyz and instead use this vendor that does the same thing but for less", for example. In movies, specifically the MCU movies, they do things like slashing the budget on VFX, remember the Marvel Head of VFX Victoria Alonso that was let go a few years ago, things like that.

I didn’t say it was fraud…

I’m saying it’s just as plausible as all of a sudden everything drops huge? What changed? Actors taking pay cuts? Or is the volume not charging by the hour now?

It just is too convenient. But we’re debating whether the Hollywood reporter and deadline are in the bag…so I guess it’s all fair game?