Captain America 4

[erasure fan1]

Are you guys talking about reviews in general or review bombing? I don’t think review bombing terribly has much impact, though it’s difficult to sometimes separate out actual sentiment from terminally online trolls.

It was review bombing. And I agree, it doesn't have any real impact. I don't really think the trolls are hard to sniff out though. They generally all have the same m.o. Just as the people who are "shills" are easy to spot.

Lets take review bombing out of the equation, and talk about reviews in general. An audience that is more online today than ever before that has access to reviews in all forms in less than 5 seconds has more opportunity to form an opinion from said reviews than in previous generations, it has an impact even if some don't want to believe it.

The discussion was about review bombing. But yes reviews can matter. Word of mouth is probably the single most important thing when it comes to things like movies, video games, books or food... I don't think anyone is really denying that. But the original argument was, some guys in their basements aren't ruining Disneys films. And that's true. I saw a lot of Moana 2 was a lazy waste of time, type reviews. Tons of reviews that the people probably didn't see the film. Yet how did that turn out?

Were movies like lightyear and strange world, or the marvels and wish review bombed? Absolutely! But guess what? If they weren't, they still do terrible. Why? Because they weren't good. And if they were actually good, people wouldn't care about some random person on rotten tomatoes posting, It's dum, I'd give it zero stars, but I can't.

 

[Disney Irish]

It was review bombing. And I agree, it doesn't have any real impact. I don't really think the trolls are hard to sniff out though. They generally all have the same m.o. Just as the people who are "shills" are easy to spot.

The discussion was about review bombing. But yes reviews can matter. Word of mouth is probably the single most important thing when it comes to things like movies, video games, books or food... I don't think anyone is really denying that. But the original argument was, some guys in their basements aren't ruining Disneys films. And that's true. I saw a lot of Moana 2 was a lazy waste of time, type reviews. Tons of reviews that the people probably didn't see the film. Yet how did that turn out?

Were movies like lightyear and strange world, or the marvels and wish review bombed? Absolutely! But guess what? If they weren't, they still do terrible. Why? Because they weren't good. And if they were actually good, people wouldn't care about some random person on rotten tomatoes posting, It's dum, I'd give it zero stars, but I can't.

I still think you guys are discounting the impact it has on a movie. Also never mentioned anyone in a basement, that is you guys in this effort to make it seem like it’s only a few people doing it, it’s not.

But let me ask you seriously, if it doesn’t have an impact (which there is no real way for you to prove either) then why does it happen? Why is there such a consorted effort to review bomb certain movies? You’d think that if it had no impact that review bombers would have gotten the message that their effort is for nothing. So it must be having some impact, even if it’s just a perceived impact, otherwise it wouldn’t happen and review sites wouldn’t try to combat it. So again I think you guys discount it way too much.

Also while bad films will still do badly no matter the reviews, films that are middle of the road and considered “meh” aren’t given a chance because of bad reviews. Like Wish wasn’t that bad of a film, it was a “meh” film like many here thought. So it could have done a whole lot better had it not been review bombed, maybe not enough to be considered “successful” but at least enough to breakeven possibly. And while maybe that isn’t important to you it does matter to many who worked on the film.

 

[erasure fan1]

Also never mentioned anyone in a basement, that is you guys in this effort to make it seem like it’s only a few people doing it, it’s not.

I know you didn't @Sirwalterraleigh said it. In the grand scheme, it's a VERY small percentage of the moviegoing population.

Why is there such a consorted effort to review bomb certain movies?

That's a good question. I'd say it's basically the same reason on both sides, shill or hater. They feel like they are actually accomplishing something.

even if it’s just a perceived impact, otherwise it wouldn’t happen and review sites wouldn’t try to combat it.

Of course they want to stop it. They want their site to have the most accurate data possible. They don't want a group of people who haven't seen a film yelling over each other. I've never seen a worse film in my life!!! It's so great, it's a new all time classic!!! How does that help their site? It only makes people not pay attention to it as there's too much trash to sift through.

Like Wish wasn’t that bad of a film, it was a “meh” film like many here thought. So it could have done a whole lot better had it not been review bombed

Was it just meh? I can get through meh films. Wish just wasn't good in my opinion. I don't think it does any better if there's no bombing and only padding. Obviously everyone's taste in what's good is subjective. But the only people I've interacted with that didn't say it wasn't bad are people on this site.

 

[DKampy]

I saw a lot of Moana 2 was a lazy waste of time, type reviews. Tons of reviews that the people probably didn't see the

Moana 2 has an 86 percent audience score….i have seen better review bombing attempts

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Moana 2 has an 86 percent audience score….i have seen better review bombing attempts

That kinda proves it’s not a “thing”

 

[DKampy]

That kinda proves it’s not a “thing”

Not really…Moana 2 never received the onslaught of hate-tubers that other films got

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not really…Moana 2 never received the onslaught of hate-tubers that other films got

What good movie was tanked by online bot reviews?

Struggling to think of one.

Muf is at 78% now? Was like 94% at release.
And it’s gonna be #1 this weekend again…
Unfortunately the worst mlk weekend in decades…still tough to get to the budget clear guesstimate of $600 mil we have been kicking around

 

[Disney Irish]

I know you didn't @Sirwalterraleigh said it.

Well if you know I didn't say it then don't use it with me, because I'm not the one. Its a cheap tactic to try and diminish someone's point, you're better than that. Don't stoop to that level.

In the grand scheme, it's a VERY small percentage of the moviegoing population.

I doubt its a very small percentage as if it was then it wouldn't be such a problem in the first place. Because its easy to combat a small percentage of review bombers, its harder to combat a coordinated effort. This is why sites like RT shutdown audience reviews in some movies, because its become a major issue.

That's a good question. I'd say it's basically the same reason on both sides, shill or hater. They feel like they are actually accomplishing something.

It goes back to something that even if you yourself admitted here -

But yes reviews can matter. Word of mouth is probably the single most important thing when it comes to things like movies, video games, books or food... I don't think anyone is really denying that.

The whole point of review bombing is to try to effect the outcome of whatever is being bombed. To sway the reviews in such a way it gives the impression of an overly negative piece of content and hopefully prevent the general public from seeing it. And if its having an impact, even if its just a perceived impact, then it works. That is why they are doing it.

Which brings me back to my whole point, which is you don't need to give more ammunition such as reusing a story line after using it in your own show just 2 years prior. As I said the MCU already has tough time right now, no need to add fuel to the fire.

Was it just meh? I can get through meh films. Wish just wasn't good in my opinion. I don't think it does any better if there's no bombing and only padding. Obviously everyone's taste in what's good is subjective. But the only people I've interacted with that didn't say it wasn't bad are people on this site.

Yes in my opinion it was "meh", it wasn't terrible but it also wasn't stellar, it was just meh. Plenty of my Disney friends that don't come on sites like this felt the same way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well if you know I didn't say it then don't use it with me, because I'm not the one. Its a cheap tactic to try and diminish someone's point, you're better than that. Don't stoop to that level.


I doubt its a very small percentage as if it was then it wouldn't be such a problem in the first place. Because its easy to combat a small percentage of review bombers, its harder to combat a coordinated effort. This is why sites like RT shutdown audience reviews in some movies, because its become a major issue.


It goes back to something that even if you yourself admitted here -



The whole point of review bombing is to try to effect the outcome of whatever is being bombed. To sway the reviews in such a way it gives the impression of an overly negative piece of content and hopefully prevent the general public from seeing it. And if its having an impact, even if its just a perceived impact, then it works. That is why they are doing it.

Which brings me back to my whole point, which is you don't need to give more ammunition such as reusing a story line after using it in your own show just 2 years prior. As I said the MCU already has tough time right now, no need to add fuel to the fire.


Yes in my opinion it was "meh", it wasn't terrible but it also wasn't stellar, it was just meh. Plenty of my Disney friends that don't come on sites like this felt the same way.

If you want to claim offense…then don’t create a strawman that “review bombing” is tanking bad movies…or to be fair: “unwanted movies”

If a movie is well constructed or offers a lot visually…it will break through and audiences will find it.

Or if you want to argue that (rhetorical)…give me good movies that went down due to tanked reviews? From the basement or not

 

[Disney Irish]

If you want to claim offense…then don’t create a strawman that “review bombing” is tanking bad movies…or to be fair: “unwanted movies”

If a movie is well constructed or offers a lot visually…it will break through and audiences will find it.

Or if you want to argue that (rhetorical)…give me good movies that went down due to tanked reviews? From the basement or not

You miss the point, or more likely you purposely ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative, and I'm not playing your game.

Feige isn't going to reuse a story line this soon after its use in another show or movie, that's it, end of story. There is no reason to discuss this further, it doesn't matter if you feel no one saw the show or review bombs don't exist or 3 people in your basement or whatever. Its not something that is going to happen, as that is not what the MCU does. Go over to DC if that is what you're looking for, as they like to reuse their stories every time they reboot, what is it for like the 5 time now. So we can now drop this whole thing because its gone on long enough.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

What good movie was tanked by online bot reviews?

Struggling to think of one.

This is the million dollar question, and I can’t think of one either.

Review bombing absolutely happens, as does shilling to a lesser extent, but I can’t think of a single good movie that tanked as a result of bombing or a single bad movie that succeeded thanks to shilling.

At most it affects opening weekend, after that real word of mouth takes over and the movie succeeds or fails on its merits.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Was Joker two review bombing or was that a bad movie?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is the million dollar question, and I can’t think of one either.

Review bombing absolutely happens, as does shilling to a lesser extent, but I can’t think of a single good movie that tanked as a result of bombing or a single bad movie that succeeded thanks to shilling.

At most it affects opening weekend, after that real word of mouth takes over and the movie succeeds or fails on its merits.

And that’s my point…this is a strawman

It’s only suggested in environments such as this…and 99.9% of the time applies to only ONE major studio. It’s veiled in Saran Wrap

 

[MagicMouseFan]

This is the million dollar question, and I can’t think of one either.

Review bombing absolutely happens, as does shilling to a lesser extent, but I can’t think of a single good movie that tanked as a result of bombing or a single bad movie that succeeded thanks to shilling.

At most it affects opening weekend, after that real word of mouth takes over and the movie succeeds or fails on its merits.

You are right! Review bombing has never caused real damage to a good movie, and vice versa, shilling has never helped a bad movie become great. In the long run, the viewers always determine whether a film is any good and therefore assign it the right spot on the pop culture value ladder.
Excellent observation Vegas Disney Fan!

 

[BrianLo]

Was Joker two review bombing or was that a bad movie?
View attachment 838196

Yup, it was a bad movie. That’s why my stance is largely reviews matter, but not coordinated review bombing other than probably percentage points or slightly larger if the review bombers are the target audience.

Joker 2 entire wind came out of its sails the second critics and the general audience realized they hated it.

 

[BrianLo]

Was it just meh? I can get through meh films. Wish just wasn't good in my opinion. I don't think it does any better if there's no bombing and only padding. Obviously everyone's taste in what's good is subjective. But the only people I've interacted with that didn't say it wasn't bad are people on this site.

It has an 80% audience score and an A- CinemaScore. I think meh is appropriate, because the scores almost suggest ok.

Critically it was poorly received though.

But I’m running us way, way off track from Cap4 now.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Yup, it was a bad movie. That’s why my stance is largely reviews matter, but not coordinated review bombing other than probably percentage points or slightly larger if the review bombers are the target audience.

Joker 2 entire wind came out of its sails the second critics and the general audience realized they hated it.

In your opinion Does coordinated review bombing work on excellent films? What movie stands out for you?

 

[BrianLo]

In your opinion Does coordinated review bombing work on excellent films?

Short answer, no.

The act of doing it, no. The audience responsible for it can maybe move the meter a few percentage points if they were instead shilling for the film. See Snyder Bros.

I care far more about the CinemaScore, myself. Which cannot be tampered with and actually represents word of mouth.

I think review bombers think they are successful because they've met success with apathetic films. But certainly a run was made at something like Inside Out 2 - and immediately no one cared and it didn't move the needle one iota.

I do think occasionally what the review bombers are actually mad about can break out beyond the internet. Not always though. The anti Disney rhetoric that even carried through the Spring impacted absolutely nothing in their slate last year. I think people "thought" it was impacting 2023 more than reality. Correlation rather than causation.

 

[erasure fan1]

Well if you know I didn't say it then don't use it with me, because I'm not the one. Its a cheap tactic to try and diminish someone's point, you're better than that. Don't stoop to that level.

He said it and you came back talking about review bombing. That was your counter, I wasn't using any cheap tactics. I was pointing out that I don't believe it has a big impact. And you think it does, and that's what I was countering.

I doubt its a very small percentage as if it was then it wouldn't be such a problem in the first place.

Really? Of the worlds movie going population? I guess I should clarify, what do you feel is a significant percentage?

It goes back to something that even if you yourself admitted here -

Yes I did say that. I also said there's a difference between review bombing and what I said was most important. And that's word of mouth. By me saying reviews can be important doesn't mean review bombing has some great impact.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

I think this one will need strong reviews and word of mouth to be a huge hit. Ford is no longer a box office draw. Either is Mackie, and last time we saw his character was a D+ show that was pretty mediocre by most accounts.
But I think the release date could really work in it's favor.