Captain America 4

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I didn’t say it was fraud…

Well this statement in your post says otherwise (bolded and increased size for effect) -

If that’s the case…then is would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

So if you didn't "mean it" then basically don't even post it.

I’m saying it’s just as plausible as all of a sudden everything drops huge? What changed? Actors taking pay cuts? Or is the volume not charging by the hour now?
I've given reasons of what changed.

For this movie outside of Ford and Mackie there aren't any big names in the movie, and I would put Mackie in the lower end of the "big names" category. So there aren't likely any big paychecks here.

It just is too convenient.
Its only "convenient" if you don't believe they can reign in costs.

But we’re debating whether the Hollywood reporter and deadline are in the bag…so I guess it’s all fair game? 🤷🏻‍♂️
I'm not, that is your take not mine.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

Mixed a tad with cap 4 being a bit more grounded and cgi capped to likely just act 3
That definitely Increases budgets…but it is likely we are giving too much blame to that

Prior to 2020…the budgets went bonkers too. Avengers…black panther…pathetic attempts at Star Wars…the pirates…

Now not only Disney…Cameron is in another universe…the Jurassics and late potters…DC…

But they have the Jay Z family “lions share” of the big budgets…prior to COVID
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
So if you didn't "mean it" then basically don't even post it.
I edited it a bit.

If you wanted to say as Lo did that Covid drove those budgets up…then that is reasonable. It’s a good stance…

But beyond that…it looks like they just spent like drunken sailors. Which let’s face it: is entirely possible and almost likely in Hollywood. I used “fraud”…you can use “wasteful” if it’s more happy…

Either way…I’m not gonna debate nuance or metaphor with you. That isn’t just you…there are frequent “gotchas” on semantics that do nothing. It’s argumentative and pointless. And I’m tired of the arguments. Even ME…we’re spinning.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I edited it a bit.

If you wanted to say as Lo did that Covid drove those budgets up…then that is reasonable. It’s a good stance…

But beyond that…it looks like they just spent like drunken sailors. Which let’s face it: is entirely possible and almost likely in Hollywood.
I agree that Hollywood in general, and even Disney, spent huge amounts in the past unwisely. Every studio did it, its why we had huge $300M movies at one point. Everyone was chasing the next blockbuster $1B+ franchise. But that all came crashing down in 2020 and they realize you could do that anymore, and many studios started to reign in their budgets.

Unfortunately for Disney their pipeline takes longer to clear out, so it was going to take 2-3 years before we started to see the their budgets come down to more reasonable levels. As I said we had this discussion multiple times before in the box office and other threads. So this movie is just an example of them lowering budgets.

I used “fraud”…you can use “wasteful” if it’s more happy…
Words matter my friend, if you mean wasteful then use wasteful. Fraud means something, and has legal ramifications for people, it has taken down companies and many people over the years.

I had this same debate with another poster not more than just a week or two ago. People just throw words around without thinking because its funny or want to evoke some feeling, but they mean something and need to be used wisely.

Either way…I’m not gonna debate nuance or metaphor with you. That isn’t just you…there are frequent “gotchas” on semantics that do nothing. It’s argumentative and pointless. And I’m tired of the arguments. Even ME…we’re spinning.
When then maybe stop yourself, I'll take my responsibility for my part, but you play a part in that too. So maybe control your own posts in that matter.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Doctor Strange 2



Ant-man 3




The Marvels

Funny, all those quite literally are from one single source which has been called out as being a hack that misrepresents that budget numbers. So this doesn’t prove what you think it does.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Doctor Strange 2



Ant-man 3




The Marvels


What happened to using Hollywood Reporter, Deadline, and Variety as your sources?
 

Agent H

Well-Known Member
LOL, that isn't the actual budget. They lie and say a low number and you guys all believe it. Then 2 years later they have to unveil the truth and you move onto the next bomb to defend.
I hate to use the word troll to describe people I don’t agree with (this isn’t YouTube) si si ne sawa after all but this guy definitely is one
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
LOL, that isn't the actual budget. They lie and say a low number and you guys all believe it. Then 2 years later they have to unveil the truth and you move onto the next bomb to defend.
I don’t believe that one

But didn’t you know the sec watches Disneys movie budgets…so they can’t lie?

That sounds like a really bad joke until you’ve been around enough to realize many actually think that 😳
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
The section below is from a long article on Vulture regarding Hollywood's struggles with recent national developments. I'm not going to post a link, but the section below seems relevant (it also includes brief discussions of Win or Lose and Snow White.)

"In a more pressing example of what’s to come in 2025, there is Marvel’s Captain: America: Brave New World, which before June 2023 was titled Captain America: New World Order. (The change was taken as an implicit response to the IRL “New World Order” conspiracy theory gaining traction in right-wing extremist corners of the internet; it posits the existence of a secret global elite conspiring to implement a totalitarian one-world government.) Early test screenings of Brave New World, which hits theaters February 14, were reportedly disastrous, prompting expensive reshoots with major sequences cut from the film. According to a technical crew member on the film with knowledge of both the screenings and the reshoot process (which also took place last year), the character portrayed by Harrison Ford — Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross, a demagogic military leader who morphs into an irrational, orange-hued superhuman — created unforeseen political resonances for the studio in an inaugural year.

“He’s this very powerful general who becomes kind of a fascist and turns into a raging Red Hulk. That was seen as an allusion to Trump,” this source explains. “Disney was realizing, Hey, we’ve been bleeding for a while. Let’s try not to off our core base anymore than we have been over the past couple of years.”"
 

Agent H

Well-Known Member
The section below is from a long article on Vulture regarding Hollywood's struggles with recent national developments. I'm not going to post a link, but the section below seems relevant (it also includes brief discussions of Win or Lose and Snow White.)

"In a more pressing example of what’s to come in 2025, there is Marvel’s Captain: America: Brave New World, which before June 2023 was titled Captain America: New World Order. (The change was taken as an implicit response to the IRL “New World Order” conspiracy theory gaining traction in right-wing extremist corners of the internet; it posits the existence of a secret global elite conspiring to implement a totalitarian one-world government.) Early test screenings of Brave New World, which hits theaters February 14, were reportedly disastrous, prompting expensive reshoots with major sequences cut from the film. According to a technical crew member on the film with knowledge of both the screenings and the reshoot process (which also took place last year), the character portrayed by Harrison Ford — Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross, a demagogic military leader who morphs into an irrational, orange-hued superhuman — created unforeseen political resonances for the studio in an inaugural year.

“He’s this very powerful general who becomes kind of a fascist and turns into a raging Red Hulk. That was seen as an allusion to Trump,” this source explains. “Disney was realizing, Hey, we’ve been bleeding for a while. Let’s try not to off our core base anymore than we have been over the past couple of years.”"
I have nothing to say to the rest of this but why do people keep bringing up orange HES RED
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross, a demagogic military leader who morphs into an irrational, orange-hued superhuman — created unforeseen political resonances for the studio in an inaugural year.

1. And yet, they're still going to show a demagogic monster as president of the U.S. If that was the problem, all those reshoots didn't fix it.

2. Calling the Red Hulk "orange-hue" is laughable. "Red" is in the name. Clearly, this 'source' didn't know what they were talking about.

3. We have better sources saying that a different character in the movie was the source of issues requiring reshoots.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
1. And yet, they're still going to show a demagogic monster as president of the U.S. If that was the problem, all those reshoots didn't fix it.

2. Calling the Red Hulk "orange-hue" is laughable. "Red" is in the name. Clearly, this 'source' didn't know what they were talking about.

3. We have better sources saying that a different character in the movie was the source of issues requiring reshoots.
There have been multiple rounds of reshoots.

I think picking at the orange/ red distinction is thin. That’s not the kind of distinction the outrage machine would care about and, frankly, if an artist did want to make a political satire (which Marvel was not attempting) red would be as on-the-nose as orange.
 

PrinceCharming617

Well-Known Member
I used to like Falcon, it's too bad man. They did the same thing with Scarlet Witch. They made them unlikeable and annoying. Falcon's victim speech in his show and being pulled over by the cops was ridiculous. I miss the buddy buddy stuff with Winter Soldier. I don't need another he's being held down storyline. Antman had to work at Baskin Robbins and you don't hear him complaining the way Falcon is.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Thank-you, Nostradamus.
…but that’s what will happen
Presales seem to be tracking Quantomania which ended with a box office in the $500 million range?

Using the $200 million budget number and 2.5 multiplier Is break even the goalpost on this one?
That number does nothing for Disney…doesn’t reinforce their brands or lead to anything else

Overpays Harrison ford…which seems to be their brokeback mountain…

Just can’t quit him
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I can't wait til it comes out... and we get to see how bad it does.

The same people will come out the first week and brag about the numbers. Then they'll quickly go into hiding after that.

Ah yes, welcome random member who has never posted in this thread or more importantly the box office one.

Forget to sign out of your alt account or something? 🤣

Thank-you, Nostradamus.

Please log my prediction on who will do the scuttling. When the light comes on - good or bad (which I’ve also sided on bad), I think I know the new cockroach this time.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I have zero idea what the central thesis of that article is. It’s like a rambling travelogue, some vague financial facts, a bunch of questionable history and then a bunch of random online user reviews from theme park insider and twitter?

The writer hasn’t even been to the new land, so what’s the point in a rambling article. I think it might be partially an AI assisted article, but they didn’t let it write the whole thing.


How is this such a long article and yet I have no idea what on earth they want to say. They need an editor.
I despise this writer. She’s the one with the nearly unreadable meandering article about Disney Sea that felt written by AI.
Oh look, another piece of absolute drivel from Caroline Reid. This is not the first time I’ve complained about her “journalism”. But since she’s another ranting fan girl who somehow has found ongoing employment, I’m not surprised there’s barely a critical look at it.

My thoughts on Caroline Reid from Forbes. If anyone is interested you can follow the first time she fell onto our radar and basically everyone had a bone to pick with her in a Tokyo thread.

None of my past criticisms have had to do with her box office analysis skills, but I’m not surprised she’s writing drivel on that too.
 

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