Captain America 4

[MickeyMouse10]

Well some of us get our news from actual journalists and others get their news from the Hatetubers

The So-Called Journalists are the ones that reported these numbers.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Box Office: ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Summoning 2022’s Biggest Domestic Opening

Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is projected to land 2022's biggest domestic box office debut.

variety.com

Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Sets Disney+ Premiere Date

Disney+ subscribers will be able to jump into the Quantum Realm next month when “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” hits the streaming service.

variety.com

Here is two of them, but you probably still won't believe it.

 

[BrianLo]

Box Office: ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Summoning 2022’s Biggest Domestic Opening

Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is projected to land 2022's biggest domestic box office debut.

variety.com

Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Sets Disney+ Premiere Date

Disney+ subscribers will be able to jump into the Quantum Realm next month when “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” hits the streaming service.

variety.com

Here is two of them, but you probably still won't believe it.

Are you comparing apples to oranges here? A reported line item versus the total.

As an aside - I’ve now realized some of this “industry reporting” I think you are referencing has been done by Caroline Reid at Forbes who is quite literally a hack that constantly misrepresents figures in her rambling articles.

 

[DKampy]

Box Office: ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Summoning 2022’s Biggest Domestic Opening

Marvel Studios' "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is projected to land 2022's biggest domestic box office debut.

variety.com

Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Sets Disney+ Premiere Date

Disney+ subscribers will be able to jump into the Quantum Realm next month when “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” hits the streaming service.

variety.com

Here is two of them, but you probably still won't believe it.

Not really sure what your point is…. Since both articles literally state the budget was 200 million

 

[BrianLo]

Not really sure what your point is…. Since both articles literally state the budget was 200 million

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

 

[DKampy]

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

Yes I saw your post after his…. It appears his figure was equal to all the other promotional costs in your figures

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well some of us get our news from actual journalists and others get their news from the Hatetubers

If you’re “actual journalists” at writing down what someone from behind a microphone with a dopey nametag is saying…

…they got you (again)


Are those budgets that out of whack? Probably not…

But they were bombing $250+ (by their own admission) budget movies 18 months ago…and now…all of the sudden…all budgets are half that?

I have magic beans to see you.

Marvels was $300 and Captain America was $150?

Gotta use the nose to sniff it out here

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s hard to parse out, but I think he is confusing the production budget alone with the reported final costs all in. Deadline quoted above posts an even higher all in figure (496 versus the 415 he posted). But the line item of the production budget still holds.

If all of these production budgets were dramatically undercalled, as accused, I’d be able to see it on the quarterly statements. As is the studios profits (or losses) are still wildly undercalled with a 3X rule and still somewhat undercalled with a 2.5X rule based on the budgets the trades are originally reporting to us.

Also call me beyond dubious that DS:MoM cost the same as Way of Water, with its decade long production, multi film tech all wrapped into the upfront film in a notoriously CGI perfectionist product.

The point is…there’s spin here. That’s not a controversial take (but I’m sure McAngry Will make it one )

 

[Disney Irish]

If you’re “actual journalists” at writing down what someone from behind a microphone with a dopey nametag is saying…

…they got you (again)


Are those budgets that out of whack? Probably not…

But they were bombing $250+ (by their own admission) budget movies 18 months ago…and now…all of the sudden…all budgets are half that?

I have magic beans to see you.

Marvels was $300 and Captain America was $150?

Gotta use the nose to sniff it out here

Why is it so hard to believe that Disney has reigned in budgets? You do know that most blockbuster movies aren’t made the same year they come out right? There is usually a 2-3 year gap between the time the movie gets budgeted to the time it’s released. So budgets for movie x in 2023 was set likely in 2020-2021. This is before they started to reign in budgets, which began in 2022. So only now are we starting to see the fruits of that effort.

I believe we went over all this in the box office thread at one point during 2023, that it wouldn’t be until this year, 2025, that we’d see the budgets start to come down.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Why is it so hard to believe that Disney has reigned in budgets? You do know that most blockbuster movies aren’t made the same year they come out right? There is usually a 2-3 year gap between the time the movie gets budgeted to the time it’s released. So budgets for movie x in 2023 was set likely in 2020-2021. This is before they started to reign in budgets, which began in 2022. So only now are we starting to see the fruits of that effort.

I believe we went over all this in the box office thread at one point during 2023, that it wouldn’t be until this year, 2025, that we’d see the budgets start to come down.

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

I agree they needed too…it’s just highly convenient they bomb like NINE…and with a thanos type snap we already halved them?

If that’s the case…then it just as well would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

 

[Disney Irish]

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

I agree they needed too…it’s just highly convenient they bomb like NINE…and with a thanos type snap we already halved them?

If that’s the case…then is would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

I don't know how you see fraud especially with no proof, which is also a strong word which has legal ramifications. You should not throw around that word so lightly without proof.

Also how does any company slash costs from one year to the next, or even one quarter to the next? They just do it. They say things like "Hey no more using that more expensive vendor for xyz and instead use this vendor that does the same thing but for less", for example. In movies, specifically the MCU movies, they do things like slashing the budget on VFX, remember the Marvel Head of VFX Victoria Alonso that was let go a few years ago, things like that.

 

[Agent H]

And by the way…before amnesia to prove a point sets in. Doing a reboot of Star Wars was the most obvious, dim witted move in Hollywood history. Would have take 4 minutes on the street talking to people to realize no one on the planet wanted a new Version of ANH…Jedi was ridiculed for decades for that and it was no where near as redundant with the characters.

Just a reminder

That’s funny return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie oh well

 

[BrianLo]

How would they reign in budgets that quickly on films in production for 2+ years?

It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

Mixed a tad with cap 4 being a bit more grounded and cgi capped to likely just act 3

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

For the MCU VFX is one of the biggest expenses, as its said they overworked all the VFX artists due to redoing many shots multiple times leading to them unionize in 2023. The head of VFX for Marvel was let go in March 2023, rumors were that she was part of the reason for the cost overruns on the VFX (even though her being let go was rumored to be due to a non-compete clause by her working on an Amazon Studios project). So they've worked to bring down the VFX costs a lot over the last couple years.

But I do agree we've come out of the pandemic extra costs era and now back to a more normal budget.

 

[BrianLo]

For the MCU VFX is one of the biggest expenses, as its said they overworked all the VFX artists due to redoing many shots multiple times leading to them unionize in 2023. The head of VFX for Marvel was let go in March 2023, rumors were that she was part of the reason for the cost overruns on the VFX (even though her being let go was rumored to be due to a non-compete clause by her working on an Amazon Studios project). So they've worked to bring down the VFX costs a lot over the last couple years.

Edited in a comment that I also suspect Cap 4 has less VFX than Average.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't know how you see fraud especially with no proof, which is also a strong word which has legal ramifications. You should not throw around that word so lightly without proof.

Also how does any company slash costs from one year to the next, or even one quarter to the next? They just do it. They say things like "Hey no more using that more expensive vendor for xyz and instead use this vendor that does the same thing but for less", for example. In movies, specifically the MCU movies, they do things like slashing the budget on VFX, remember the Marvel Head of VFX Victoria Alonso that was let go a few years ago, things like that.

I didn’t say it was fraud…

I’m saying it’s just as plausible as all of a sudden everything drops huge? What changed? Actors taking pay cuts? Or is the volume not charging by the hour now?

It just is too convenient. But we’re debating whether the Hollywood reporter and deadline are in the bag…so I guess it’s all fair game?

 

[Disney Irish]

I didn’t say it was fraud…

Well this statement in your post says otherwise (bolded and increased size for effect) -

If that’s the case…then is would indicate more of financial fraud by the director and sfx than “necessity”

So if you didn't "mean it" then basically don't even post it.

I’m saying it’s just as plausible as all of a sudden everything drops huge? What changed? Actors taking pay cuts? Or is the volume not charging by the hour now?

I've given reasons of what changed.

For this movie outside of Ford and Mackie there aren't any big names in the movie, and I would put Mackie in the lower end of the "big names" category. So there aren't likely any big paychecks here.

It just is too convenient.

Its only "convenient" if you don't believe they can reign in costs.

But we’re debating whether the Hollywood reporter and deadline are in the bag…so I guess it’s all fair game?

I'm not, that is your take not mine.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s not so much that budgets have been reigned in as much as 2020-2022 productions spent oodles on pandemic precautions. With productions constantly starting and stopping. We seem to have returned back to where we were.

Mixed a tad with cap 4 being a bit more grounded and cgi capped to likely just act 3

That definitely Increases budgets…but it is likely we are giving too much blame to that

Prior to 2020…the budgets went bonkers too. Avengers…black panther…pathetic attempts at Star Wars…the pirates…

Now not only Disney…Cameron is in another universe…the Jurassics and late potters…DC…

But they have the Jay Z family “lions share” of the big budgets…prior to COVID

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So if you didn't "mean it" then basically don't even post it.

I edited it a bit.

If you wanted to say as Lo did that Covid drove those budgets up…then that is reasonable. It’s a good stance…

But beyond that…it looks like they just spent like drunken sailors. Which let’s face it: is entirely possible and almost likely in Hollywood. I used “fraud”…you can use “wasteful” if it’s more happy…

Either way…I’m not gonna debate nuance or metaphor with you. That isn’t just you…there are frequent “gotchas” on semantics that do nothing. It’s argumentative and pointless. And I’m tired of the arguments. Even ME…we’re spinning.

 

[Disney Irish]

I edited it a bit.

If you wanted to say as Lo did that Covid drove those budgets up…then that is reasonable. It’s a good stance…

But beyond that…it looks like they just spent like drunken sailors. Which let’s face it: is entirely possible and almost likely in Hollywood.

I agree that Hollywood in general, and even Disney, spent huge amounts in the past unwisely. Every studio did it, its why we had huge $300M movies at one point. Everyone was chasing the next blockbuster $1B+ franchise. But that all came crashing down in 2020 and they realize you could do that anymore, and many studios started to reign in their budgets.

Unfortunately for Disney their pipeline takes longer to clear out, so it was going to take 2-3 years before we started to see the their budgets come down to more reasonable levels. As I said we had this discussion multiple times before in the box office and other threads. So this movie is just an example of them lowering budgets.

I used “fraud”…you can use “wasteful” if it’s more happy…

Words matter my friend, if you mean wasteful then use wasteful. Fraud means something, and has legal ramifications for people, it has taken down companies and many people over the years.

I had this same debate with another poster not more than just a week or two ago. People just throw words around without thinking because its funny or want to evoke some feeling, but they mean something and need to be used wisely.

Either way…I’m not gonna debate nuance or metaphor with you. That isn’t just you…there are frequent “gotchas” on semantics that do nothing. It’s argumentative and pointless. And I’m tired of the arguments. Even ME…we’re spinning.

When then maybe stop yourself, I'll take my responsibility for my part, but you play a part in that too. So maybe control your own posts in that matter.