csm
Well-Known Member
That's not the new name. Not that thew name is that much better.
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Breaking News: Space Mountain Rehab
- Thread starter jt04
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That's not the new name. Not that thew name is that much better.
IcicleM
New Member
I was not saying that Dueling Dragons would be gone completely, I was saying it would be rethemed and renamed and run by people who will actually be excited to be there running the new ride and therefore it might actually be a positive change. All of the Universal employees will want to work somewhere in the new land, and YES, whether you like it or not, it IS A new land when they are completely retheming and redesigning that entire section of the park and changing and adding completely new rides and restaurants and shops.
If things don't work out and the employees being to slack, then Universal will eventually have to tighten its belt on training and maintaining employees in their park, because the world will notice, at that point. the way that people come from around the world to Walt Disney World, people will do the same for the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and for a while, it WILL do better. True, you may be able to do everything at the Wizarding World in one or two days, but people will still choose that first over going back to Disney World, and when a tourist sits down and compares the two, they will state more of an improvement and change to Universal than Disney World.
The fact of the matter is, Disney has GOT to find a way to balance the funding its parks get. Perhaps Disney Parks HAS gotten too big for it's own good...
If things don't work out and the employees being to slack, then Universal will eventually have to tighten its belt on training and maintaining employees in their park, because the world will notice, at that point. the way that people come from around the world to Walt Disney World, people will do the same for the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and for a while, it WILL do better. True, you may be able to do everything at the Wizarding World in one or two days, but people will still choose that first over going back to Disney World, and when a tourist sits down and compares the two, they will state more of an improvement and change to Universal than Disney World.
The fact of the matter is, Disney has GOT to find a way to balance the funding its parks get. Perhaps Disney Parks HAS gotten too big for it's own good...
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
I think TDS is still better themed than Serka Zong. Because of all the effects they have - THAT SEEM TO ALWAYS WORK. That's the big difference to me. Maintenance. Steam from manholes, water effects in the caldera of Mt. Prometheus, various rooms with interactive exhibits in Fortress Explorations, etc... Just WOW.
Anyway... I don't ever see MI being built in Florida, because I don't think they'd spend the money to do it right. And I personally wouldn't want to see a watered down version in the states. Like TDL's Pooh vs. any other pooh in the world. Ugh.
Plus, if you cryptically read between the lines on what many people say, Joe may not be making decisions with TWDC much longer.
csm
Well-Known Member
The staff that run the two coasters will not be any different. They are not getting a new staff. It is the same staff it has always been. If anything. they will be *less* excited to run it than they are now because they will be majorly living in the shadow of the new big kid on the block. Not to mention the people running the ride will be running it because they were not accepted to be part of the opening crew of the new one. And it's not a "whether I like it or not" - plain and simple, it is not a new land. It is a retheme of a small portion of an 10 year old land. That's it. The ride is the only new real estate. Every bit of that land existed since 1999 (obviously with the exception of the Unicorn area that opened in 2000). Putting up new curtains doesn't mean you have a new window. It's still the same old house you've always lived in. You've just remodeled it and made what you already had a little bit nicer. I'm not questioning that this section will be *nicer*, but it is not a *new land*. That would imply expansion, which this most certainly is not.
Uhhh yeah. No comment on that one.
This is by no means a "Disney is better than Unviersal" statement. Plain and simple, what you said above WILL NOT happen. The Simpsons is one of the most famous and most well-known properties in the entire world. Getting a license to use that property in a theme park is literally a license to print money. Did The Simpsons Ride shoot attendance at USF through the roof? Not. Even. Close.
Seriously? One or two days? There's ONE NEW RIDE, period. Are you really going to need one or two days to see ONE NEW RIDE and look at a few gift shops? Try two or three hours, and that's ONLY because this ride has EXTREMELY low capacity for the demand that it will see opening summer. Again, did you need one or two days to see the new Simpsons stuff? Because it's essentially the same thing. Potter will just a have a few more gift shops and pretty facades.
Now, as for your comment about comparatively speaking, that in itself is interesting if you really think about it. Yeah, WDW has been pretty lax about adding and improving up until fairly recently, especially at the Magic Kingdom. But look at IOA. What major ride have they received since the theme park opened in 1999? Here's your answer: _______. Nothing. They've done nothing. They got a teacup ride and a kiddie coaster because the park had nothing for kids to do. And that was in 2000. So in nine years, they've got nothing - unless you eriously want to count the Seuss Trolley ride, which I refuse to because that's not a new ride, that's an 8 year delayed opening. It's fantastic that they're dropping some decent money into Potterland. I'm excited to see it finished. But unless this is the new precident for direction of theme park operations, and I very sincerely doubt it is, then Universal is no better than Disney in terms of what they've added. The simple fact is this - your average family comes to Florida what, every three years maybe? I'm not talking about the people on this board that have a new sig update every 15 minutes to how many days till their next trip. I'm talking the truly average visitor that saves up for years and doesn't come nearly as much as they'd like to. Say your average family comes when Potterland opens. The truth of the matter is that even though Disney hasn't done anything blockbusting, they've STILL done more since Average Family's last visit to Florida than Universal has. I'm certainly not defending mediocrity, but the simple fact is that to our friends in Average Family, ANYTHING NEW is GOOD. Even Stitch's Great Escape. Even Lights, Motors, Action.
No, the fact of the matter is Disney has gotten too comfortable in the past decade riding on its own coattails. Magic Kingdom is a name brand that will never be denied. And even though Magic Kingdom is one of my least favorite Kingdom theme parks in the chain, it is Magic Kingdom. People are programed to love it, and that marketing has been SO successful over the past 40 years that little will ever turn that around. The truth is Disney could add NOTHING to Magic Kingdom ever again and the numbers will stay just as strong. Does that make it ok? In my opinion certainly not. But it is what it is. I was personally happier with the Haunted Mansion update than I would have been with a new ride, because that's something I'd have NEVER expected from the WDW Kingdom park. Same for Space Mountain. As long as they do it right, I'd gladly accept it over a new attraction built from the ground up (though it wouldn't hurt to have both!)
csm
Well-Known Member
Have you been to TDS? I'm really curious now- because that was my thought too. At the risk of saying it's "too good to be true" which I don't necessarily think, it IS all technology and must break sometime right? Right??? The thing that struck me most was in the dozens of times I rode Journey to the Center of the Earth, I NEVER saw it break down. It baffled me because (for those of you unfamilar) it is a next generation Test Track ride system. 'nuff said, right? But it seriously was never down in the ten days I was in Japan.
I honestly would take just the ride as long as they build the volcano to put it in. I wouldn't consider that *too* watered down. It's suuuuuch a good ride. As for Pooh, I know, it's depressing, but the easy way to justify it is that they did not have their Pooh before WDW. At least it's not like the FL park got a downgraded version. If you didn't know, their Pooh also cost north of $110m. Countdown to Extinction didn't even cost that much when it was built, for comparision sake. And if you haven't been on TDL's Pooh, it's one of the most AMAZING rides you'll ever see, but it admittedly is VERY short. Not complaint worthy short, but defnitely shorter than you'd expect for the pacing of the ride.
Plus, if you cryptically read between the lines on what many people say, Joe may not be making decisions with TWDC much longer.
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I don't see Rhode as the genuis that everyone else sees him as. And honestly, I see him as a bigger part of the problem then the solution. Yes, he likes detail - but he lies detail at the sacrifice of content. And you mean to tell me that his multiple "have the company pay for my vacation to everest" trips were all for research, and that all of that research was necessary? Look, I work in the biz'. I know research is necessary for a realistic product. But plain and simple, there's just nothing in that mountain that required any research at all. It's rockwork. And it's only SOME rockwork at that. Yeah, the queue has details. But Imagine all the extra details that could have been aforded if he didn't blow all that budget on so many trips over there. Hmmm, maybe even another 1/3 of a mountain shell!
CaptainMichael
Well-Known Member
I also don't think all of the trips were necessary, but I believe that was mostly for TV.
He was part of the team that built the Adventurers Club. That's pretty good in my book. He also worked in World Showcase...again, winner. I think it would be a loss to lose yet another creative mind. Replacements aren't always better...especially in today's Imagineering.
SirGoofy
Member
I meant in the Florida parks.
csm
Well-Known Member
Rumors I've been given indicate it's not up to him.
Wow, I enjoy reading your contributions, you are a great writer. You are kinda the anti-74 contributer and provide good balance to his posts. This is the one rumor though I am not sure about. Seems to me Disney would want to keep as many detail oriented Imagineers as possible but who knows what they have in mind for WDW anymore.:shrug:
csm
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, and it's nothing more than that, Rhode is SO obsessed with detail that he loses sight of the big picture. For example, when Everest was being developed, in some interview or another he was asked if the ride would have on-board audio. His response, almost shocked, was something to the tune of "of course not. Real steam trains don't have music!" Well, hey there bucko, real steam trains also don't climb Mount Everest, go backwards though scaffold-filled tunnels and come in contact with a 25' tall monster that doesnt' exist in real life.
REAL is not the POINT. It's theatrical. It's storytelling. Would a movie not have a score because in real life, there's not music playing in the background of your life? Do you ever watch a movie and say "Oh, this could never happen. Why, there's music afoot! That's simply proposterous!"
Rhode is so obsessed with what he sees as details that no one else would ever really notice or understand that he's getting more and more out of touch with the *real* guests that visit the park. Which do you suppose happens more often: Guests walk through the park and say "Wow! I love how intricately detailed that sign is, and the pavement is great!" or "Wow, I liked Everest but why are there almost no other attractions in this park?"
To an extent, quality will always win out over quantity. I'd argue though, that Rhode walks a VERY fine line in that department that he probably ought to back away from just a bit.
I'm VERY much a detail guy. Graphics are what I do. I love little nods and in-references and things like that. But if that's ALL you're paying $75 to see, it seems out of touch in my opinion. That's why I'd be ok with Rhode going away. I don't want WDI to lose details. I simply want them to gain substance.
Yes substance is good. Again you are a great voice and I would bet you are speaking for a lot of people so I really hope you stay around and add your opinions here often.
I know you speak for me in many respects and I would not feel as compelled to post as often in the future, and I know folks would definitely appreciate that!:ROFLOL:
Good stuff!
csm
Well-Known Member
Yes substance is good. Again you are a great voice and I would bet you are speaking for a lot of people so I really hope you stay around and add your opinions here often.
I know you speak for me in many respects and I would not feel as compelled to post as often in the future, and I know folks would definitely appreciate that!:ROFLOL:
Good stuff!
So basically, I gain points by getting rid of you? :ROFLOL:
I tried to send you a private message but it says you have them turned off...
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Many great Movies do just that, and to great effect. The China Syndrome is a comparable action-drama that dosen't have a score because the director felt the same way. I think Realism should be accepted or stretched per the creator's decisions to do so if it best fits the story, and for Expedition Everest the lack of on-ride Music is fitting, and a well planned decision to omit the unnecessary for this ride in particular.
techiegsy
Member
I just cant imagine some rides without audio, the audio in DLPs Space Mountain really adds to the ride feel (Yes, I am a fan) without it, It's one of those things you live without, then see what its like and seriously miss it when its gone. I have, however, not rode on EE and therefore cannot pass comment on that.
And I congratulate you CSM on putting something I couldn't put into words.
And I congratulate you CSM on putting something I couldn't put into words.
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
Good, Ill have just enough time to ride it in March for my spring break. Hopefully nothing will happen though, Id hate to cancel my trip last minute because the refurb was pushed up a month. And my AP expires sometime in July, and I havent been as much as I wanted this year, but wont be going down for the annual July trip with SM down so I want to get one more good trip use off of this AP.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I visited TDL and TDS in June. And I think it really screwed me up, honestly. :lol: Since then, I've gone to HKDL and have a trip planned for DLP in March... With no real desire to go back to my home resort at WDW!!! :lol: After seeing what it's like when they get it right and maintain their product and care about the guest experience, it's awfully hard to go back to WDW. Even if it costs less than half as much and takes only 2 hours to get to by plane.
Interesting, your take on JR. I certainly hadn't thought of things from the viewpoint you shared. I can see what you're saying. I'm not sure I'm on board, honestly though... You say sometimes JR is so into detail that at times he forgets the big picture, and because of that it wouldn't bother you if he left.
My worry/question would be: What would they replace him with?
It just feels like with the current trends, the replacement would probably not be someone we'd be happy with and could make things even worse than they already are.
It seems like maybe to you it's a case of "the grass might be greener"... Which these days scares the HECK out of me.