News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[Chris82]

I don't think it's really fair to paint Iger or Eisner in such big brushstrokes. Iger hasn't poured money into EPCOT (yet), but under his leadership, they added New Fantasyland, are adding the hugely ambitious new Pandora area to Animal Kingdom, and are about to overhaul the languishing DHS with Star Wars. I don't think someone who didn't care about the parks would make those kind of massive and risky investments. Not all of his decisions are great, by any means.
Eisner put a huge priority on the parks, and gets a lot of press for adding Disney-MGM and Animal Kingdom (and California Adventure), but his taste was far from infallible. Man, he made some bad decisions amongst the good.

It's funny referring to New Fantasyland, Pandora, and Star Wars Land as "risky," which I think in truth you're right - they are. But I thought Iger said he made these particular investments precisely because he thought they weren't as risky - relying on established franchises like Princesses, Star Wars, and a financially successful film like Avatar.

 

[sshindel]

I don't think it's really fair to paint Iger or Eisner in such big brushstrokes. Iger hasn't poured money into EPCOT (yet), but under his leadership, they added New Fantasyland, are adding the hugely ambitious new Pandora area to Animal Kingdom, and are about to overhaul the languishing DHS with Star Wars. I don't think someone who didn't care about the parks would make those kind of massive and risky investments. Not all of his decisions are great, by any means.
Eisner put a huge priority on the parks, and gets a lot of press for adding Disney-MGM and Animal Kingdom (and California Adventure), but his taste was far from infallible. Man, he made some bad decisions amongst the good.

And everyone always glosses over Iger's massive investment in the parks because they don't tend to agree that it was worth the money that was spent, but billion(s?) of dollars were invested in NextGen, which has impact in the park to the guest, but such a massive goldmine in data for the company, which will have a larger impact on guests than anyone probably realizes.

 

[prberk]

Yes, I think it was for Adventure Thru Inner Space in Disneyland if I am not mistaken.

They may have done both. But they definitely sponsored a Tomorrowland attraction in WDW. I think the one at WDW was Mission to Mars.

 

[P_Radden]

I'm cross posting my comments from the Norway Pavilion thread as they pertain to this thread more:

And lest people forget or try to argue against that fact, i'll post this again-


That's from August 1989, large crowds and lines for all of the Future World pavilions/rides (all of which were were ridiculous people eaters operating in unison, especially impressive for the park to be so packed). I also personally visited WDW countless times from the early 90's through '97 and similar crowd levels were still seen in busy seasons for classic Future World rides. EPCOT in its original form remained very popular and well loved by guests.

By the mid 90's there were a few things that needed some minor updating here and there (what they did with SSE 1994 for instance was an example of how to PROPERLY upgrade Future World). But nothing so serious that it warranted the complete mess it has been mangled into since the 90's. It wouldn't have been that difficult to keep the park very popular, fresh and up to date.


I'd say it went as far back as 1994 with the loss of the sponsor and choosing not to operate it consistently from then on (it went "seasonal" for a lot of its remaining life and wasn't always open). You can also point to 1994 for the loss of 20k Leagues in MK. But the first major loss for me at EPCOT was World of Motion in 1996. I stopped visiting WDW in 1997 and only rode Test Track in 2010 for the first time, really hate what they did there. Imagination was also butchered in 1998 and I was shocked to see that abomination upon my return as well.

At least Horizons continued to operate intermittently until 1999. I'd say these were remnants of some of the projects intended for "Project Gemini" (which I consider to be a terrible concept personally, thankfully Spaceship Earth was spared such a horrendous fate).

This video just slapped me in the face with sad nostalgia. Just listening to the narrator on the monorail describing the FW attractions melts my heart. This is the EPCOT I remember as a child. This is the EPCOT I miss. Sea Base Alpha and Horizions were so awesome and mind blowing at that time. I feel like both attractions could still have the same appeal today if they had been maintained and updated properly (not re-themed to Nemo). All of Future World had a general theme and purpose that made you leave there feeling optimistic, excited and inspired to do great things.

EPCOT FW is what made me fall in love with WDW in the first place. I have never felt so passionately about a theme park or any place in my life. It's honestly sad and depressing that FW has been neglected by Disney for so long. For all of us that visited it in the 1980s and 1990s as children and got inspired by EPCOT, it hurts so bad to visit it today. I wonder how the imagineers feel that spent years of their lives working on EPCOT Center to only see it these days in the sad condition it's in

 

[Miss Heinous]

There's so much to do in Future World and World Showcase that if it's a 'half-day' park to you, you're skipping most of it.

Mostly because over half of the attractions there haven't been updated in almost 2 decades. Even if I did all of the actual attractions and then some I can do it in a half day, I'm willing to bet you could too if you could walk faster.

 

[hth1917]

They may have done both. But they definitely sponsored a Tomorrowland attraction in WDW. I think the one at WDW was Mission to Mars.

It was America the Beautiful (and later Magic Carpet 'Round the World).

 

[prberk]

It was America the Beautiful (and later Magic Carpet 'Round the World).

Were those the same rides? And did they become "If You Had Wings"? (Or was that Eastern Airlines attraction a whole different one?)

 

[Otterhead]

billion(s?) of dollars were invested in NextGen,

Oh man, I didn't even mention NextGen. That's such a massive behind-the-scenes overhaul that gets a lot of crap for the rocky rollout of FP+, but will transform the way things run.
And if you see the stuff Disney Research is working on, there's some wacky next-level stuff being funded for the parks. They recently patented micro-drones that can be controlled in sequences and patterns that would, in theory, be used to simulate fireworks displays and create animated light displays as part of parades.

 

[Otterhead]

Were those the same rides? And did they become "If You Had Wings"?

No, "America the Beautiful" was a CircleVision movie. "If You Had Wings" was an Omnimover ride built for Eastern Air.

 

[ford91exploder]

Oh man, I didn't even mention NextGen. That's such a massive behind-the-scenes overhaul that gets a lot of crap for the rocky rollout of FP+, but will transform the way things run.
And if you see the stuff Disney Research is working on, there's some wacky next-level stuff being funded for the parks. They recently patented micro-drones that can be controlled in sequences and patterns that would, in theory, be used to simulate fireworks displays and create animated light displays as part of parades.

Of course Disney will never BUILD any of that neat stuff, It's just a weapon in case someone else does it, But as to drones with programmable lights - well I'd just say you should check out xHeli for lots of examples of 'prior art'

 

[ford91exploder]

And everyone always glosses over Iger's massive investment in the parks because they don't tend to agree that it was worth the money that was spent, but billion(s?) of dollars were invested in NextGen, which has impact in the park to the guest, but such a massive goldmine in data for the company, which will have a larger impact on guests than anyone probably realizes.

The trouble is that data is having a net negative result on the guest experience. Once again its not so much the tool but how it is applied, Disney is using their big data investment to find things to CUT, Prime example running restaurants at minimum staffing levels, Where else in the world can you walk in to a restaurant with half it's tables empty and be told no tables available (this is also seen in not being able to make same day reservations)

Now that's not to say that a more enlightened team could not make better use of the Big Data investment to watch things dynamically and if restaurants are starting to fill beyond plan start bringing in PT staff to handle the unplanned demand. But the current team is mired in cost accounting and as many of us say are picking up pennies while dollars fly over their head.

 

[Otterhead]

check out xHeli for lots of examples of 'prior art'

In looking at their patent, what they have planned is very different from xHeli. They'd be using large numbers of extremely small drones with individual lights that can fly in formations and shapes, rather than larger drones with multiple programmable lights on them.

 

[ford91exploder]

In looking at their patent, what they have planned is very different from xHeli. They'd be using large numbers of extremely small drones with individual lights that can fly in formations and shapes, rather than larger drones with multiple programmable lights on them.

USPTO prangs again - there is nothing new about lighting a RPV or UAV and flying in formation. I have a palm sized lighted drone which I fly for my cats They think it's a bird...

 

[sshindel]

Where else in the world can you walk in to a restaurant with half it's tables empty and be told no tables available (this is also seen in not being able to make same day reservations)

Quite a few places have this problem. It's industry wide. I see stuff like this all the time, restaurant has plenty of tables, yet nobody to staff them, thus you have to wait. It's honestly happened to me a million times less at WDW than it does pretty much anywhere else. Visit your local Cracker Barrel (what can I say, them's some good dumplins) and you'll see this happen every day of the week.

Now that's not to say that a more enlightened team could not make better use of the Big Data investment to watch things dynamically and if restaurants are starting to fill beyond plan start bringing in PT staff to handle the unplanned demand. But the current team is mired in cost accounting and as many of us say are picking up pennies while dollars fly over their head.

It tends to be where big data analysis starts, where can I cut costs for immediate impact. It doesn't last long however because they'll start to see negative trends happen quickly. Also, if they've only been collecting this data for 2 years now, they are just now getting the volume they need to start to do real predictive analysis. Prior to this they wouldn't have the historical data to train their models on, making predictive analytics impossible.

 

[Otterhead]

USPTO prangs again - there is nothing new about lighting a RPV or UAV and flying in formation.

Can you direct me to videos of several hundred small drones creating airborne animated effects?

 

[ford91exploder]

Quite a few places have this problem. It's industry wide. I see stuff like this all the time, restaurant has plenty of tables, yet nobody to staff them, thus you have to wait. It's honestly happened to me a million times less at WDW than it does pretty much anywhere else. Visit your local Cracker Barrel (what can I say, them's some good dumplins) and you'll see this happen every day of the week.


It tends to be where big data analysis starts, where can I cut costs for immediate impact. It doesn't last long however because they'll start to see negative trends happen quickly. Also, if they've only been collecting this data for 2 years now, they are just now getting the volume they need to start to do real predictive analysis. Prior to this they wouldn't have the historical data to train their models on, making predictive analytics impossible.

Oh yeah - damn good dumplins at Cracker Barrel, Let's hope Disney actually hires some competent data scientists with and pairs them with good operations people so they can get some guest friendly results out of the system, Let's face it if Big Data were around in Walt's day he WOULD have used it.

 

[Master Yoda]

The trouble is that data is having a net negative result on the guest experience. Once again its not so much the tool but how it is applied, Disney is using their big data investment to find things to CUT, Prime example running restaurants at minimum staffing levels, Where else in the world can you walk in to a restaurant with half it's tables empty and be told no tables available (this is also seen in not being able to make same day reservations)

Now that's not to say that a more enlightened team could not make better use of the Big Data investment to watch things dynamically and if restaurants are starting to fill beyond plan start bringing in PT staff to handle the unplanned demand. But the current team is mired in cost accounting and as many of us say are picking up pennies while dollars fly over their head.

This is not unique to Disney or even the restaurant business.

Every restaurant I know will staff according to a predicted volume. To do otherwise leaves you people standing around and getting paid for nothing.

We did the same thing when I ran a quick lube in High School and College. Our volume was fairly predictable based on the day of the week and we staffed accordingly. On the rare occasion the number of customers went over the staff we had we either had to try an call someone in or turn the work away.

On the flip side if my hours scheduled vs cars serviced ratio off in the wrong way I could expect a reaming from the district manager.

 

[sshindel]

Oh yeah - damn good dumplins at Cracker Barrel, Let's hope Disney actually hires some competent data scientists with and pairs them with good operations people so they can get some guest friendly results out of the system, Let's face it if Big Data were around in Walt's day he WOULD have used it.

I agree 100%. One of my data scientists actually said the first company that contacted him was Disney. I think after my jaw came off the floor and I stopped planning just how I could get the Data Scientist title, I was glad to know that they were looking for good people. He would have been great for them. Former PhD Astrophysicist, chose working for the insurance industry and putting up with being managed by a clown like me over working at Disney. If I remember right, he didn't want to move to Florida. Same thing keeping my resume out of the swamp right now as well.

 

[ford91exploder]

I agree 100%. One of my data scientists actually said the first company that contacted him was Disney. I think after my jaw came off the floor and I stopped planning just how I could get the Data Scientist title, I was glad to know that they were looking for good people. He would have been great for them. Former PhD Astrophysicist, chose working for the insurance industry and putting up with being managed by a clown like me over working at Disney. If I remember right, he didn't want to move to Florida. Same thing keeping my resume out of the swamp right now as well.

No sane person under 80 wants to move to FL, After 80 it seems the year round warmth is beneficial.

 

[sshindel]

No sane person under 80 wants to move to FL, After 80 it seems the year round warmth is beneficial.

I make sure to follow Florida Man on Twitter to continually remind myself of that fact, to keep me from throwing out resumes just in case.