News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

Nick Pappagiorgio

Nick Pappagiorgio

Well-Known Member
TJ Vazquez said:
Please use common sense...what would happen if you drank a bottle of Clorox? Its the same concept except spread out over your shortened life.
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MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Monsanto's sponsorship of Disney attractions was largely before their controversies were made public. Same with Exxon's sponsorship of UoE, which was in place well before the infamous oil spill.

Master Yoda said:
Changing a scientifically refutable opinion based on evidence makes one a sell out now?
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It WOULD be a fair point if there were legitimate new independent and peer reviewed studies that changed his opinion. The problem is that by Bill's own admittance, it was his discussion with Monsanto associates that changed his view.

I am not strongly opinionated on either side of the "GMO" debate, but I tend to distrust powerful corporations. While i'm not going to assume bribery occurred, trusting Monsanto to give you accurate information on the health of their products is kind of stupid. It makes about as much sense as any other company disclosing all the facts regarding a potentially ruinous situation. Even cigarette makers would love to convince you that their products are safe and good for you (they used to).

BTW as a general piece of info- The debate over the phrase "GMO" is specifically regarding Monsanto's "Roundup-ready seeds" (one among thousands/millions of possible ways to modify genes of organisms, GMO's can be equally as safe or dangerous depending on the method). Monsanto's specific application is inserting a dose of the chemical glyphosate (a herbicide used in Roundup) into seeds.

There's some debate as to whether glyphosate is safe or not. American scientists have often favoured Monsanto (which organic lobbyists attribute to bribery). But the argument has been less clear in other countries. European scientists in particular are more split, the respected World Health Organization for instance came out against them. Either way it's a big mess.

The drinking clorox analogy is absurd btw. Even if GMO crops were a long term health risk, bleach will kill you almost immediately if you drank it straight out of the bottle. You're likely drinking bleach right now in trace amounts, along with fluoride and other "dangerous" chemicals in tap water. The difference is quantity. I'm certain drinking pure roundup would kill me quite quickly, but that doesn't mean trace amounts are necessarily going to be an issue.
 
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Eastonm7

Eastonm7

Member
Chris82 said:
That's a good point - even just knowing that big things are in the pipeline does wonders for our acceptance of things. It's not so much the empty space as the belief that it's going to be empty forever that depresses. However, I remember somebody on these forums saying that they only announced Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land at the last minute at D23 - they weren't planning on it until (I think) they needed a plan to shore up falling stock prices. So there was a strong likelihood we weren't supposed to know about the upcoming DHS changes...

That suggests that maybe they have big Epcot plans in the works too - we just don't know about them? Hope springs eternal...
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Oh I'm sure they have plans, the real question is will those plans get greenlighted. And if they do when will we know? I'm going to guess we will have something new before 2021 (50 year anniversary)
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
$350 million supposedly allotted to EPCOT (according to the rumors regarding the DHS redo) could go a long way in the proper hands. While WDI is very bloated and wasteful with spending, Future World does have a lot of existing infrastructure to work with already. Imagination, Wonders of Life and Universe of Energy for instance are all existing buildings that they could save money by reusing. Assuming nothing is structurally wrong with them anyways.

I'd say prioritize Wonders of Life and Imagination to start. WoL has nothing there currently and developing there wouldn't impact the park's capacity or anything. Imagination may be operating, but it's so unpopular that taking that entire pavilion down wouldn't likely make a big difference. I wish they'd let Tony Baxter work his magic over there again, he's expressed desire to do so again. Especially with the Figment comic being popular...
 
Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
Monsanto's sponsorship of Disney attractions was largely before their controversies were made public. Same with Exxon's sponsorship of UoE, which was in place well before the infamous oil spill.


It WOULD be a fair point if there were legitimate new independent and peer reviewed studies that changed his opinion. The problem is that by Bill's own admittance, it was his discussion with Monsanto associates that changed his view.

I am not strongly opinionated on either side of the "GMO" debate, but I tend to distrust powerful corporations. While i'm not going to assume bribery occurred, trusting Monsanto to give you accurate information on the health of their products makes about as much sense as any other company disclosing all the facts regarding a potentially ruinous situation. Even a cigarette maker is going to try to convince you that their products are safe and good for you (they once did this).

BTW as a general piece of info- There's nothing inherently wrong with "GMO" as a broad definition. The hatred over the phrase "GMO" is regarding Monsanto's "Roundup-ready seeds" (which is just one among thousands/millions of possible ways to modify genes of plants, there are just as many safe/healthy ways to GMO as there are dangerous). With Monsanto's specific application, they insert a dose of the chemical glyphosate (the chemical used in Roundup) into a seed.

There's some debate as to whether glyphosate is safe or potentially dangerous. American scientists have often favoured Monsanto (which organic lobbyists claim is due to Monsanto bribery). But the argument has been less clear in other countries. European countries in particular have had both sides debate the issue, the respected World Health Organization for instance put out a statement against roundup crops not too long ago. Either way it's a big mess at the moment.

And comparing drinking clorox to this is absurd. Even if glyphosate in such small doses WAS a health risk, bleach will kill you within minutes if you drank it straight out of the bottle. Not even remotely comparable. There are small portions of bleach, flouride and countless other "dangerous" chemicals in tap water.
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I will be as brief as I can...

Monsanto did not "insert a dose of the chemical glyphosate" into a seed. Round Up kills plants by interfering with the synthesis of the essential amino acids . Plants and microorganisms make these amino acids with an enzyme that only plants and lower organisms have called EPSPS. Roundup Ready plants (soybeans in particular) express a version of EPSPS from a strain of bacteria that glyposate does not interfere with. The gene from this bacteria was inserted using a biolistic particle delivery system. (Also know as a gene gun)

Since animals do not make these amino acids, glyphosate is relatively harmless to humans. Its LD 50 is actually lower than caffeine.

When and how much Round Up can be applied is also strictly regulated.

There is no 'debate" in scientific circles on the safety of GMO's or Round Up. There are mountains of evidence from multiple sources showing their safety.

The only debate regarding them is political and economical. In many cases, governments are simply following the wind produced by the people that elect them. Unfortunately, that wind is being directed by people that have no problem lying through their teeth in order to see a organic, free range, cage free tomato for three times the price of a regular one.

If you think that organic farming does not have the resources to go up against the likes of Monsanto I only ask that you look at the numbers. Monsanto had total sales of 15.8 billion in 2014. The super market Whole Foods made 14.2 billion.
 
Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Otterhead said:
If you ate tiny, tiny amounts of Hemlock -- organic hemlock, of course -- it'll cure your ills. Well, at least that's how homeopathy is supposed to work.
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Thankfully, homeopathic tinctuers are so diluted, the probability of even one molecule of the active ingredient being present is near zero. They owe their following to the placebo effect.
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
As I said, I really don't have a strong opinion of "GMO" crops either way (at least the kind people are so against at the moment). I don't trust either a mega corporation like Monsanto nor the organic industry (which is also technically a "corporate" entity as well). I've bought and continue to buy the products both organic and non organic, it depends solely on the taste of the food in question for me.

Funny (and hypocritical) thing is, Whole Foods actually carries a ton of the GMO products they claim to be so against. They're just as scummy as any other corporate conglomerate out there (and they were long overdue for a South Park roasting).
 
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Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
As I said, I really don't have a strong opinion of "GMO" crops either way (at least the kind people are so against at the moment). I don't trust either a mega corporation like Monsanto nor the organic industry (and i've bought the products of both). Funny (and hypocritical) thing is, Whole Foods actually carries a ton of the GMO products they claim to be so against. They're just as scummy as any other corporate conglomerate out there (and they were long overdue for a South Park roasting).
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Quite correct. Monsanto, like every other corporation out there cares about making money. However, the lengths at which they will go to make it are often exaggerated to flat out made up by those that are essentially just selling a competing product.

If you are interested in the science behind it feel free to PM me and I will be happy to forward you a few links.
 
Horizons '83

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
haha wow guys... I will stop my campaigning against Monsanto, but honestly please do some research on the subject. Its quite scary really. And whoever made the Hemlock Plant comment...really? Come on, they are literally poisoning our food source.

I do hope they make some significant changes to this park. I absolutely love World Showcase but this quickly becoming a half day park along with DHS because of the lack of anything to do in Future World.
 
Otterhead

Otterhead

Well-Known Member
TJ Vazquez said:
I will stop my campaigning against Monsanto, but honestly please do some research on the subject.
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I think a whole lot of people here did, Master Yoda in particular, but it sounds like you ignored their actual facts in favor of saying silly things about poison. Okay, sure.

I typically spend two days in EPCOT with no problem. There's so much to do in Future World and World Showcase that if it's a 'half-day' park to you, you're skipping most of it.
 

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