Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[wdisney9000]

You can't complain about cartoon characters being anywhere in WDW, you just can't. They tried that in EPCOT back in the day and people did not like it.

But what "people" didnt like it? A random few? Most likely the same as the minority crowd that believes Frozen in Norway pavilion is a GREAT idea.

I could imagine the occasional guest back in the day asking , "where are the characters"? Its not as if people were storming guest services demanding a picture with Mickey Mouse. I visited as a young child many times and never cared about characters in Epcot and it was my favorite park.

Even today, the character presence is very light. and yet the park is packed most days, not to mention the festival crowds.

 

[Chris82]

1 fact we know: This attraction is happening whether we like it or not.

Maybe we can focus on the potential of ride? Who knows, maybe Disney will knock our socks off with immersive themeing and a fun ride.

One can hope, but I remain skeptical, mostly based on precedent - Ariel's Bland Whatever and Seven Dwarfs Mine Train in New Fantasyland.

I recently discovered a YouTube ridethrough of the original 1971 Snow White's Adventures, and I loved it - suddenly, the ride actually makes emotional sense. It's supposed to be dark, threatening, and freaky! The only version I remember riding is Snow White's Neutered Adventures slathered in dwarfs and animals, a curiously lame experience. Discouragingly, Mine Train actually started out pre-neutered! Apart from the mild thrills of the mine car itself, both New Fantasyland attractions trade only on uninvolving dioramas that you glide past. Yes, the dioramas are high quality. Clearly money was spent. But no emotional involvement is going on, scary or otherwise - I'm not flying over London, running from the witch, being spooked by 999 grinning ghosts, exploring a haunted pirate cave, or even going to hell. I'm just seeing isolated scenes from a movie in 3D. Kids who want to recognize their favorite character will be happy, but many others will be left cold. The difference between Peter Pan's Flight and Ariel's Undersea Adventure might seem subtle but it's quite palpable.

Will Frozen Ever After bring anything to the table other than a tasteful new way of seeing characters, scenes, and songs we've already seen (for some of us thousands of times over and over again?) Will it be funny? Scary? Sad? Awe-inspiring? Will it elicit any reaction other than "I remember that from the film?" They're certainly capable of it... Philharmagic brilliantly gave us an emotional "in" to old songs by using Donald Duck to add humor and emotional stakes, but that was a while ago. So I kind of doubt it.

 

[Hakunamatata]

The original Epcot center had a great balance of what was and what the future could be. You needed the historical part as a basis to see where we have come from. Now it's a hodgepodge of crap with no purpose or direction.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe we can focus on the potential of ride? Who knows, maybe Disney will knock our socks off with immersive themeing and a fun ride.

No, were not talking about an amusement park. A defining aspect of a theme park is that rides are not isolated experiences.

 

[aladdin2007]

The original Epcot center had a great balance of what was and what the future could be. You needed the historical part as a basis to see where we have come from. Now it's a hodgepodge of crap with no purpose or direction.

This!! As much as I hate to agree can't help but feel the same. Show quality at this park is also pretty bad. Whats with the ladder hanging from the ceiling in gran fiesta tour? the lumberjack show is about the lowest entertainment Disney has ever steeped so low to (no offence to the performers) but do we really need the horrible sound of chain saws in what use to be this amazing beautiful park? SE's undone sections, they ripped out the feeling of inspiration and hope etc, the list goes on, we all know the others such as the future world pavilions etc, but the park almost depresses me anymore. My only hope is that the frozen fairytale jammed into where it should not be somehow raises the bar for this park in its design and execution and will lead to a desire to fix and help other areas, but probably wont. Disney is content on sitting back racking in millions on booze and to heck with anything of high caliber or theme like it use to be. Its turning into one big giant convenience store.

 

[Cesar R M]

Epcot Center was designed with a different purpose then a cutsey theme park with all your favorite Disney friends in their country. Was their complaining about no characters being there...maybe a little. Yet after a day at Epcot Center people would go spend a day at Magic Kingdom just a monorail ride away. Epcot Center was made to educate, immerse visitors in the wonders of technology and glamorized versions of real countries. The argument has been made from every angle, and it loses every time when people state that Frozen belongs in Epcot. It just does not. It didn't yesterday, it doesn't today, it wont tomorrow and it still wont fit in 2016 when it opens. Many tourist and mommy bloggers will come in floods to wait hours on end for a value ride that has no creativity and no imagination in it. I mean they are using the SAME TRACK as the old ride.

Frozen as a whole land is based on opinion. Tokyo is doing it so we will see soon enough if it will work. But when you take a movie that has made over a billion dollars and shove it in a corner of Epcot like it somehow is the missing piece of puzzle, you are disrespecting the movie Frozen, shaming the imagineers of Disney, spitting on the vision of Epcot, and slapping every Epcot Center fan in the face. What they have done to with this ride is in no way an ok decision no matter what kind of research they did.

I also want to take a moment to think about the research part. Honestly no I don't think they did do much research. I would say nobody on this Earth would say "Hey I think a Frozen ride in Norway would be amazing! What better way to learn about the cultural aspects of Norway then on a boat ride through a movie that has nothing to truly do with Norway". No if they had asked people would have probably liked to see a new imaginative dark ride in Magic Kingdom, or maybe a sub land in Magic Kingdom or maybe a land and show at Hollywood Studios. The putting Frozen in Epcot decision was made upon the idea of fast money and saving money. Nothing but money inspired them to do this...nothing.

I agree, they ignored all sense and went just for the Economical and Operational points.

 

[Cesar R M]

maybe Disney will knock our socks off with immersive themeing and a fun ride

you forgot the limited budget?

 

[aladdin2007]

you forgot the limited budget?

that budget however was expanded by burbank as this project took forth,,,however the majority of that probably went to the expansion pad meetngreet.

 

[GoTheDistance]

You know, for the most part, I understand that Epcot's needs have changed. I don't think it's been executed well (or really even fully executed...), but I get that they are trying to "adapt to the needs of guests" as time passes. Sure. I get that. I get that adding character M&Gs to the WS gave the little ones something to look forward to in an area not directly catered towards them. Sure. Putting Frozen in Norway is just plain laziness from the higher ups hoping they can draw crowds to a decaying park and leave behind a Frozen ride in the process. At least thematically speaking.

With everything going on at DAK, we know Disney is capable of exemplary theming and storytelling. Maybe they are hoping everyone is too intoxicated to notice what's going on at Epcot.

 

[marni1971]

The original EPCOT center had a great balance of what was and what the future could be. You needed the historical part as a basis to see where we have come from. Now it's a hodgepodge of crap with no purpose or direction.

Quoted for truth.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The original Epcot center had a great balance of what was and what the future could be. You needed the historical part as a basis to see where we have come from. Now it's a hodgepodge of crap with no purpose or direction.

oh you mean like Tomorrowland?

 

[P_Radden]

The original Epcot center had a great balance of what was and what the future could be. You needed the historical part as a basis to see where we have come from. Now it's a hodgepodge of crap with no purpose or direction.

My only gripes with Epcot are:

1) that it has so much potential-

Imagination Pavillion, WoL, UoE all need to be overhauled back to their original purposes just with modern tech, know-how and a little Imagineering TLC. I hope this is what we will see in a few years when they get around to actually focusing on Epcot.

World Showcase, IMO, always has needed more to do other than shop, eat and drink. I want to see dark rides put into Germany and Japan, as the buildings are already there . This actually p****es me off more so than Maelstrom being converted into Frozen Ever After. This is a problem I've always had with World Showcase in addition with the blank pads never being used.

But..... I still love the park. I just want EPCOT Center back. To me it will always be EPCOT center

2) They destroyed Horizions, and with it the spirit and core of EPCOT center. Mission Space sucks.

 

[Horizons '83]

My only gripes with Epcot are:

1) that it has so much potential-

Imagination Pavillion, WoL, UoE all need to be overhauled back to their original purposes just with modern tech, know-how and a little Imagineering TLC. I hope this is what we will see in a few years when they get around to actually focusing on Epcot.

World Showcase, IMO, always has needed more to do other than shop, eat and drink. I want to see dark rides put into Germany and Japan, as the buildings are already there . This actually p****es me off more so than Maelstrom being converted into Frozen Ever After. This is a problem I've always had with World Showcase in addition with the blank pads never being used.

But..... I still love the park. I just want EPCOT Center back. To me it will always be EPCOT center

2) They destroyed Horizions, and with it the spirit and core of EPCOT center. Mission Space sucks.

Yeah, I died a little inside when I saw the demo pictures of Horizons. I just never understood the decision to completely demo the building. This was the beginning of a long line of poor decisions from WDW IMHO.

 

[fngoofy]

But what "people" didnt like it? A random few? Most likely the same as the minority crowd that believes Frozen in Norway pavilion is a GREAT idea.

I could imagine the occasional guest back in the day asking , "where are the characters"? Its not as if people were storming guest services demanding a picture with Mickey Mouse. I visited as a young child many times and never cared about characters in Epcot and it was my favorite park.

Even today, the character presence is very light. and yet the park is packed most days, not to mention the festival crowds.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Roy E. was a studio guy and blamed the parks, especially the big new project, for the failures at the studio to justify his revolt and a business shift highly obsessed with film that has built up to this false narrative that themed entertainment is an inferior medium that needs [film-based] intellectual property to function.

I wonder how many Disney fans who dislike Universal have ever thought to consider that the company has basically copied their buisiness model for theme park design for the last 25 years ("ride the movies"). I mean, what's the difference behind the principle design logic of a ride like Little Mermaid vs Men in Black or Aladdin's Carpets vs Minion Mayhem?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I wonder how many Disney fans who dislike Universal have ever thought to consider that the company has basically copied their buisiness model for theme park design for the last 25 years ("ride the movies"). I mean, what's the difference behind the principle design logic of a ride like Little Mermaid vs Men in Black or Aladdin's Carpets vs Minion Mayhem?

Nothing. Those who love Disney and hate Universal more often do not like themed entertainment. They like Disney and want to be reminded of previous Disney experiences. Themed entertainment is only beneficial because it offers totality.

 

[Cesar R M]

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Boring EPCOT Center was more popular than Epcot.

And lest people forget or try to argue against that fact, i'll post this again-


That's from August 1989, large crowds and lines for all of the Future World pavilions/rides (all of which were were ridiculous people eaters operating in unison, especially impressive for the park to be so packed). I also personally visited WDW countless times from the early 90's through '97 and similar crowd levels were still seen in busy seasons for classic Future World rides. EPCOT in its original form remained very popular and well loved by guests.

By the mid 90's there were a few things that needed some minor updating here and there (what they did with SSE 1994 for instance was an example of how to PROPERLY upgrade Future World). But nothing so serious that it warranted the complete mess it has been mangled into since the 90's. It wouldn't have been that difficult to keep the park very popular, fresh and up to date.

Yeah, I died a little inside when I saw the demo pictures of Horizons. I just never understood the decision to completely demo the building. This was the beginning of a long line of poor decisions from WDW IMHO.

I'd say it went as far back as 1994 with the loss of the sponsor and choosing not to operate it consistently from then on (it went "seasonal" for a lot of its remaining life and wasn't always open). You can also point to 1994 for the loss of 20k Leagues in MK. But the first major loss for me at EPCOT was World of Motion in 1996. I stopped visiting WDW in 1997 and only rode Test Track in 2010 for the first time, really hate what they did there. Imagination was also butchered in 1998 and I was shocked to see that abomination upon my return as well.

At least Horizons continued to operate intermittently until 1999. I'd say these were remnants of some of the projects intended for "Project Gemini" (which I consider to be a terrible concept personally, thankfully Spaceship Earth was spared such a horrendous fate).

 

[AmUK]

You know, for the most part, I understand that Epcot's needs have changed. I don't think it's been executed well (or really even fully executed...), but I get that they are trying to "adapt to the needs of guests" as time passes. Sure. I get that. I get that adding character M&Gs to the WS gave the little ones something to look forward to in an area not directly catered towards them. Sure. Putting Frozen in Norway is just plain laziness from the higher ups hoping they can draw crowds to a decaying park and leave behind a Frozen ride in the process. At least thematically speaking.

With everything going on at DAK, we know Disney is capable of exemplary theming and storytelling. Maybe they are hoping everyone is too intoxicated to notice what's going on at Epcot.

Utter nonsense. Disney has too many corporate people at it's helm and less visionaries.

Too many people whose sole bottom line is profit. Not enough people like Walt Disney himself. As a result the parks have no direction.

 

[marni1971]

And lest people forget or try to argue against that fact, i'll post this again-
.

Let me also add the parking lot was expanded in 1983 because it wasn't big enough.