News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[DisneyDodo]

There are a lot of things to address here.

1. Where did the assumption that this was ever separate from Frontierland come from? The original presentation never specified if the proposed Encanto/Coco area was meant to be an extension or a miniland, as you suggest.
2. The Land of the Dead wouldn't be the facade. You would presumably still have southwestern and south-of-the-border placemaking with a more accurate facsimile of Ernesto's mausoleum and the surrounding graveyard set around the attraction entrance.
3. I still don't get where you're getting the idea that they're "ripping out" the plaza area? Did someone else suggest that in a comment I missed? I didn't suggest it. I agree that it should be there in order to facilitate a graceful transition.
4. Your assertion about them "not building it twice" is based on a faulty premise. They are not building Santa Cecilia in Animal Kingdom. Santa Cecilia is a prototypical north-central Mexican town. The AK Americas village is, by contrast, tropical, with influences from the Yucatán, central America, and northern South America.

1. I was also originally unclear on that, but I was personally told by a friend who works in WDAS (and worked on Encanto) that this was meant to be a separate Latin festival-themed land. I’ve definitely since also seen that confirmed elsewhere (maybe even on these boards?) but I can’t remember where exactly as it’s been well over a year
2. I conceded that the attraction facade in an of itself wouldn’t necessarily pose a problem. My point is that the direction Disney has decided to pivot to since 202/ would be inconsistent with including this attraction in Frontierland. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it’s not based on nothing.
3. I know you were originally skeptical that there was any connection between the BBTM and TA projects, but I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that after seeing that Disney confirmed that Coco will be featured in the latter. It’s true that the themes of the two lands aren’t the same (one was focused on the culture, and the other, at least in theory, will lean more into the flora and fauna), but they are set in the same location (± the Yucatán). While I’m sure Disney won’t explicitly refer to the village in TA as “Santa Cecilia,” that was undoubtedly a major part of the inspiration for it. Sorry, I’m not buying that every village in the western hemisphere south of the U.S. features a carousel, papel Picado, and the exact same fountain. WDI would not have taken all of their design ideas for Santa Cecilia and used them in DAK only to still build Santa Cecilia in MK.
4. See point 3

 

[britain]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

Exactly how is a villains land “short sighted”?

 

[britain]

The back-and-forth we've seen with the art is atypical, and a direct result of them knowing what properties they wanted to use and which areas they want to develop and redevelop, but not having a clue what and where.

The Moana art we saw for AK was first drawn for another location. Same for Zootopia. The Encanto and Coco grafts had a similar path. BBTM had a very unlikely path due to development costs until relatively recently, so the cards seems to have been shuffled again. Coco, Encanto, and Moana have immense internal support. Getting Coco into AK was a no-brainer with the Tropical Americas land, but the as-designed Coco E-Ticket is absolutely the leading candidate to anchor BBTM.

Lol, it’s almost like Retail said, “Can we PLEASE have a little nod to Coco at AK so we can sell some dias de los muertos merch there too!”

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

Depends on how much you know about what they have in mind, I suppose.

 

[mickEblu]

Coco E-ticket is the leading contender for BBTM phase 1, likely utilizing the Soarin' 2.0 ride system.

AFAIK. YMMV.

Have you heard of a Coco ride for DCA? Now that you’re saying it’s Soarin 2.0 for MK Im hoping they don’t clone it and shoehorn into Grizzly Peak Airfield. I was hoping for more of Shanghai Peter Pan version of a Coco ride.

 

[James Alucobond]

3. I know you were originally skeptical that there was any connection between the BBTM and TA projects, but I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that after seeing that Disney confirmed that Coco will be featured in the latter. It’s true that the themes of the two lands aren’t the same (one was focused on the culture, and the other, at least in theory, will lean more into the flora and fauna), but they are set in the same location (± the Yucatán). While I’m sure Disney won’t explicitly refer to the village in TA as “Santa Cecilia,” that was undoubtedly a major part of the inspiration for it. Sorry, I’m not buying that every village in the western hemisphere south of the U.S. features a carousel, papel Picado, and the exact same fountain. WDI would not have taken all of their design ideas for Santa Cecilia and used them in DAK only to still build Santa Cecilia in MK.

Totally get where you’re coming from on the other points, and thanks for the clarification. On this one, I still disagree that one should necessarily deeply affect the other. The EPCOT Mexico pavilion having a courtyard fountain, Spanish tile roofs, a step pyramid, and papel picado is not preventing Animal Kingdom from getting any of that, so I am not sure why that would be off limits for Magic Kingdom. I don’t think they’ll use the exact same plaza design as in the blue sky artwork since that was conceived when the area was larger and included Encanto, but I don’t see why some sort of Mexican village element would be out of the question as the main path through the area, nor do I feel that it would be that difficult to substantially differentiate a more arid north Mexican village from a tropical American village.

 

[britain]

Exactly how is a villains land “short sighted”?

Villains are what make the regular “Hero” attractions great. Attractions with nothing but baddies would be boring. One-note.

Not to mention very contrived. None of these characters know each other! If you squint, you can kind of tolerate occasions where all the princesses are together. But villains are sociopaths, Ursula does not “pal around” with ANYONE. Nor does Maleficent. Nor does Jafar. Nor does Hook. Nor does Cruella DeVille.

It’s not driven by story. It smells like a marketing initiative, which is all it is.

“We just gotta have a place to sell our Disney VillainsTM sweatershirts, and Hades and Governor Ratigan plushies!” And fans fall for it.

I know times have changed a lot since Walt said, “no the haunted mansion should be pretty on the outside.” But a whole land selling darkness?

 

[Teddybearre]

Villains are what make the regular “Hero” attractions great. Attractions with nothing but baddies would be boring. One-note.

Not to mention very contrived. None of these characters know each other! If you squint, you can kind of tolerate occasions where all the princesses are together. But villains are sociopaths, Ursula does not “pal around” with ANYONE. Nor does Maleficent. Nor does Jafar. Nor does Hook. Nor does Cruella DeVille.

It’s not driven by story. It smells like a marketing initiative, which is all it is.

With this logic we should close Haunted Mansion and Tower of Terror since the main characters of those rides are “sociopaths” too lmao. I don’t get why so many people use the “Villains are bad so nobody would like them” argument, because if that was true, they would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. If the fact that the villains act like villains makes you so personally riled up, then you must be fun at parties lol

Also who says that Disney wouldn’t just create a story of how the Villains work with each other. I mean…they already have. House of Mouse, Villains After Hours, character interactions, etc.

 

[britain]

Oh I am

 

[MouseEarsMom33]

Villains land does not have to be the same as scary. Descendants is a popular franchise around villains that kids love. Snow White dining at Artist Pointe has the Queen as the main character interaction. There are plenty of kids there.

 

[britain]

With this logic we should close Haunted Mansion and Tower of Terror since the main characters of those rides are “sociopaths” too lmao. I don’t get why so many people use the “Villains are bad so nobody would like them” argument, because if that was true, they would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. If the fact that the villains act like villains makes you so personally riled up, then you must be fun at parties lol

Also who says that Disney wouldn’t just create a story of how the Villains work with each other. I mean…they already have. House of Mouse, Villains After Hours, character interactions, etc.

They are popular because they perform an essential part of basic mythic storytelling. It is cathartic to see heroes overcome villains. And villains are an entertaining mirror to hold up and see the flaws in ourselves.

But acres devoted to the sort of thing that makes a funny joke on house of mouse is, as I said, shortsighted.

 

[britain]

Villains land does not have to be the same as scary. Descendants is a popular franchise around villains that kids love. Snow White dining at Artist Pointe has the Queen as the main character interaction. There are plenty of kids there.

Oh I totally doubt it would be scary. It will just be eye rollingly painful for anyone who actually appreciates the myths and legends that the villains came from.

It’s as true to the characters as Rogers: The Musical is to the Avengers.

 

[Consumer]

An entire villains park is idiotic. A villains land is less idiotic, but still stupid. A subland of Fantasyland dedicated to the villains would be fine. Have it be a dark forest subland with a Bald Mountain coaster and Maleficent's castle, it could work. Anything more is excessive.

 

[britain]

Let me put it another way, I think Universal’s monsters land will be very successful, because a little gloomy Bavarian Village where the Wolfman, Frankenstein, and Dracula will terrorize people is true to their original stories. But none of the most famous Disney villains have a land of their own and a league of comrades.

“Disney Villains” isn’t really a thing. It’s a marketing push.

 

[britain]

An entire villains park is idiotic. A villains land is less idiotic, but still stupid. A subland of Fantasyland dedicated to the villains would be fine. Have it be a dark forest subland with a Bald Mountain coaster and Maleficent's castle, it could work. Anything more is excessive.

Well said.

 

[Brer Panther]

Especially when stuff like Descendants has been show to be popular with the younger set.

Oh, geez, we're gonna get a Descendants attraction as part of this land, aren't we?

Villains are what make the regular “Hero” attractions great. Attractions with nothing but baddies would be boring. One-note.

I fully agree.

 

[britain]

Let’s put it yet another way: C-3PO does not pal around with Mickey Mouse. Sure, you can have them in a silly TV commercial together. But you DO NOT have Jedi Mickey show up in Star Tours.

You may say, but they aren’t under the same brand. But you can’t say that all the movies under the Disney animation label happened in the same universe. Bowler Hat Man and Scar aren’t friends.

Now, that was an extreme example. Sure, some may be a better fit than others (Hook and Prince Hans? Ursula and Hades?) But in that case make the land a Theives Port? Or the Underworld? Unfortunately that will probably be too restrictive for Marketing’s desire to put “Disney Villains” stuff in the shops.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

On Frontierland and BBTM:

As currently executed, FL is by far the most restrictive of the four "big" MK lands. With a relatively minor tweak of style and storytelling, this area could be recast as a celebration of the natural beauty and ethos of this region. By focusing on a more natural setting for BBTM, you can help preserve the heart and vibe of FL.

On Villiand Land / Dark Kingdom:

There is without a doubt great concept work happening here. My biggest hesitation is that - no matter what they're able to fund and deliver - this project will struggle to live up to expectations, as it's taken on a mythos of it's own. I'll happily be proven wrong, but I see some of these concepts making it to a DHS expansion - perhaps one with a transportative device that allows it to be fully indoors.

 

[DisneyDodo]

While there are certainly children who would refuse to step foot in a Villains-themed land, I don’t anticipate it would be anywhere near the majority. In fact, I expect this land would have attractions that would be much more accessible to young children than many other attractions at MK (not to mention DHS and DAK).

Even princess rides like TBA, 7DMT, and probably whatever they end up building for Moana, are inaccessible to many young kids, who either can’t (due to height restrictions) or won’t ride. Compare that to HM, MNSSHP, or, say, an Ursula spinner, spooky-themed experiences that many kids do/would love.

I think the demographic that would be most let down by a Villians land would be childless adults who have been clamoring for a villians-themed land (or park) that will genuinely scare them. I’m quite confident in predicting that Disney wouldn’t build something of that nature.