News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[UNCgolf]

The actual "Coco" content in the Coco carousel at AK is minimal... from what I can tell it's a nice blend, and in no way compromises what is likely to come in the MK expansion.

I don't know that I'd call a carousel (and maybe a gift shop?) an area, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

It's not just the carousel -- it's the whole design of the land around the carousel.

While the design is Spanish colonial in general and thus doesn't have to relate to Coco specifically, I'm concerned we are going to end up with very similar areas at both the MK and DAK.

They could just build a Coco E-ticket at the MK with a single facade and not a Mexican inspired land around it, though.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Any “Villains Land” at MK is a great way to ensure a sizable portion of guests don’t set foot in it. I’m sorry but Villains is quite niche and not appealing to families with younger children.

Not to pile on, but…

This is kinda like saying not everyone will want to ride a rollercoaster, therefore there should be no rollercoasters.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Not to pile on, but…

This is kinda like saying not everyone will want to ride a rollercoaster, therefore there should be no rollercoasters.

Not at all. They aren't dropping an entire new land of roller coasters in a park.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Not at all. They aren't dropping an entire new land of roller coasters in a park.

The point is, the parks always have a variety of offerings that allow engagement for various levels.

A park should offer more grown up experiences. It makes your kids wants to come back and conquer their fears, and gives older kids, teens, and adults more offerings.

It builds a well rounded experience, with something for everyone.

 

[doctornick]

Any “Villains Land” at MK is a great way to ensure a sizable portion of guests don’t set foot in it. I’m sorry but Villains is quite niche and not appealing to families with younger children.

I'm not really sure that broad statement is really true. Especially when stuff like Descendants has been show to be popular with the younger set. Surely, there will be some young children that wouldn't be interested but as long as the execution is "spooky" more than "frightening", it would be fine.

FWIW, my children all love playing Villainous including my youngest who has been playing since age 7 or 8 or so.

 

[𝕴𝖒𝖆𝖌𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖊𝖗97]

Watch them insert Coco to Big Thunder Mountain somehow...it's one of the few non-IP attractions left.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not to pile on, but…

This is kinda like saying not everyone will want to ride a rollercoaster, therefore there should be no rollercoasters.

A fifth gate should be a villains park, which is a coaster park, full of high quality Disney themed off the shelf coasters!!

The tweens, teens and adults would love it!!

I know, I know, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN! But a person can dream.

 

[Teddybearre]

Any “Villains Land” at MK is a great way to ensure a sizable portion of guests don’t set foot in it. I’m sorry but Villains is quite niche and not appealing to families with younger children.

I have no idea if you have kids or anything, but I know when me and my sister were little, we would’ve loved a Villains land. If anyone in my family would be too scared to enter a Villains land, it would be my parents LOL

 

[MisterPenguin]

You can solve that problem by getting rid of Odyssey

My issue is not that Coco itself is in two parks, but it’s just that Tropical America’s is looking to be heavily Mexican influenced, and I would expect New Frontierland to be super Mexican influenced as well. I’m worried it’ll feel like they built the same land in two parks

Let Odyssey become an extension of all things Latin America and a perpetual fiesta. Then you can conjigger a queue big enough for a Three Caballeros retheme of the Mexico ride.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Any “Villains Land” at MK is a great way to ensure a sizable portion of guests don’t set foot in it. I’m sorry but Villains is quite niche and not appealing to families with younger children.

Disney's past Villain offerings tell a different story.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It's interesting to learn what other insiders are hearing compared to myself... some matching exactly and some 180 degrees different. It's obvious the internal jockeying is in full swing.

In any event, what I hear as the current state of things:

MK-
Moana on AL expansion pad
Offstage facility relocation
Coco and expanded Frontierland in the BBTM area
Early design work for Dark Kingdom as a BBTM phase two. This is where I'm skeptical.

AK-
Tropical Americas makeover of Dinoland just about exactly as we know it.
Lion King boat ride dupe and/or Pandora attraction #3. Plan on one of these, at best.

DHS-
"Beyond Animation Courtyard" project. Several properties being considered AFAIK.
I think this is ultimately where Dark Kingdom could end up, but I very well could be wrong.

EPCOT-
Hopefully the return of the Coastal Eats booth, but nothing else.
Absolutely nothing beyond new TT.
Really, not even for WOL.

A redo of the entire figment ride within the imagination pavilion would be a nice thing as well as anything in WOL

 

[DisneyDodo]

There are a lot of things to address here.

1. Where did the assumption that this was ever separate from Frontierland come from? The original presentation never specified if the proposed Encanto/Coco area was meant to be an extension or a miniland, as you suggest.
2. The Land of the Dead wouldn't be the facade. You would presumably still have southwestern and south-of-the-border placemaking with a more accurate facsimile of Ernesto's mausoleum and the surrounding graveyard set around the attraction entrance.
3. I still don't get where you're getting the idea that they're "ripping out" the plaza area? Did someone else suggest that in a comment I missed? I didn't suggest it. I agree that it should be there in order to facilitate a graceful transition.
4. Your assertion about them "not building it twice" is based on a faulty premise. They are not building Santa Cecilia in Animal Kingdom. Santa Cecilia is a prototypical north-central Mexican town. The AK Americas village is, by contrast, tropical, with influences from the Yucatán, central America, and northern South America.

1. I was also originally unclear on that, but I was personally told by a friend who works in WDAS (and worked on Encanto) that this was meant to be a separate Latin festival-themed land. I’ve definitely since also seen that confirmed elsewhere (maybe even on these boards?) but I can’t remember where exactly as it’s been well over a year
2. I conceded that the attraction facade in an of itself wouldn’t necessarily pose a problem. My point is that the direction Disney has decided to pivot to since 202/ would be inconsistent with including this attraction in Frontierland. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it’s not based on nothing.
3. I know you were originally skeptical that there was any connection between the BBTM and TA projects, but I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that after seeing that Disney confirmed that Coco will be featured in the latter. It’s true that the themes of the two lands aren’t the same (one was focused on the culture, and the other, at least in theory, will lean more into the flora and fauna), but they are set in the same location (± the Yucatán). While I’m sure Disney won’t explicitly refer to the village in TA as “Santa Cecilia,” that was undoubtedly a major part of the inspiration for it. Sorry, I’m not buying that every village in the western hemisphere south of the U.S. features a carousel, papel Picado, and the exact same fountain. WDI would not have taken all of their design ideas for Santa Cecilia and used them in DAK only to still build Santa Cecilia in MK.
4. See point 3

 

[britain]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

Exactly how is a villains land “short sighted”?

 

[britain]

The back-and-forth we've seen with the art is atypical, and a direct result of them knowing what properties they wanted to use and which areas they want to develop and redevelop, but not having a clue what and where.

The Moana art we saw for AK was first drawn for another location. Same for Zootopia. The Encanto and Coco grafts had a similar path. BBTM had a very unlikely path due to development costs until relatively recently, so the cards seems to have been shuffled again. Coco, Encanto, and Moana have immense internal support. Getting Coco into AK was a no-brainer with the Tropical Americas land, but the as-designed Coco E-Ticket is absolutely the leading candidate to anchor BBTM.

Lol, it’s almost like Retail said, “Can we PLEASE have a little nod to Coco at AK so we can sell some dias de los muertos merch there too!”

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Anyone who thinks a villains land would be great is akin to someone saying a park with nothing but E-tickets would be great. It’s well intentioned, but short sighted, and doesn’t deeply understand the balance of what makes a pleasant day at the parks.

Not that there aren’t plenty of places Disney has already built that break that balance.

Depends on how much you know about what they have in mind, I suppose.

 

[mickEblu]

Coco E-ticket is the leading contender for BBTM phase 1, likely utilizing the Soarin' 2.0 ride system.

AFAIK. YMMV.

Have you heard of a Coco ride for DCA? Now that you’re saying it’s Soarin 2.0 for MK Im hoping they don’t clone it and shoehorn into Grizzly Peak Airfield. I was hoping for more of Shanghai Peter Pan version of a Coco ride.

 

[James Alucobond]

3. I know you were originally skeptical that there was any connection between the BBTM and TA projects, but I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that after seeing that Disney confirmed that Coco will be featured in the latter. It’s true that the themes of the two lands aren’t the same (one was focused on the culture, and the other, at least in theory, will lean more into the flora and fauna), but they are set in the same location (± the Yucatán). While I’m sure Disney won’t explicitly refer to the village in TA as “Santa Cecilia,” that was undoubtedly a major part of the inspiration for it. Sorry, I’m not buying that every village in the western hemisphere south of the U.S. features a carousel, papel Picado, and the exact same fountain. WDI would not have taken all of their design ideas for Santa Cecilia and used them in DAK only to still build Santa Cecilia in MK.

Totally get where you’re coming from on the other points, and thanks for the clarification. On this one, I still disagree that one should necessarily deeply affect the other. The EPCOT Mexico pavilion having a courtyard fountain, Spanish tile roofs, a step pyramid, and papel picado is not preventing Animal Kingdom from getting any of that, so I am not sure why that would be off limits for Magic Kingdom. I don’t think they’ll use the exact same plaza design as in the blue sky artwork since that was conceived when the area was larger and included Encanto, but I don’t see why some sort of Mexican village element would be out of the question as the main path through the area, nor do I feel that it would be that difficult to substantially differentiate a more arid north Mexican village from a tropical American village.

 

[britain]

Exactly how is a villains land “short sighted”?

Villains are what make the regular “Hero” attractions great. Attractions with nothing but baddies would be boring. One-note.

Not to mention very contrived. None of these characters know each other! If you squint, you can kind of tolerate occasions where all the princesses are together. But villains are sociopaths, Ursula does not “pal around” with ANYONE. Nor does Maleficent. Nor does Jafar. Nor does Hook. Nor does Cruella DeVille.

It’s not driven by story. It smells like a marketing initiative, which is all it is.

“We just gotta have a place to sell our Disney VillainsTM sweatershirts, and Hades and Governor Ratigan plushies!” And fans fall for it.

I know times have changed a lot since Walt said, “no the haunted mansion should be pretty on the outside.” But a whole land selling darkness?

 

[Teddybearre]

Villains are what make the regular “Hero” attractions great. Attractions with nothing but baddies would be boring. One-note.

Not to mention very contrived. None of these characters know each other! If you squint, you can kind of tolerate occasions where all the princesses are together. But villains are sociopaths, Ursula does not “pal around” with ANYONE. Nor does Maleficent. Nor does Jafar. Nor does Hook. Nor does Cruella DeVille.

It’s not driven by story. It smells like a marketing initiative, which is all it is.

With this logic we should close Haunted Mansion and Tower of Terror since the main characters of those rides are “sociopaths” too lmao. I don’t get why so many people use the “Villains are bad so nobody would like them” argument, because if that was true, they would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. If the fact that the villains act like villains makes you so personally riled up, then you must be fun at parties lol

Also who says that Disney wouldn’t just create a story of how the Villains work with each other. I mean…they already have. House of Mouse, Villains After Hours, character interactions, etc.