News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[PREMiERdrum]

So is this expansion just 1 E ticket?

It's interesting to learn what other insiders are hearing compared to myself... some matching exactly and some 180 degrees different. It's obvious the internal jockeying is in full swing.

In any event, what I hear as the current state of things:

MK-
Moana on AL expansion pad
Offstage facility relocation
Coco and expanded Frontierland in the BBTM area
Early design work for Dark Kingdom as a BBTM phase two. This is where I'm skeptical.

AK-
Tropical Americas makeover of Dinoland just about exactly as we know it.
Lion King boat ride dupe and/or Pandora attraction #3. Plan on one of these, at best.

DHS-
"Beyond Animation Courtyard" project. Several properties being considered AFAIK.
I think this is ultimately where Dark Kingdom could end up, but I very well could be wrong.

EPCOT-
Hopefully the return of the Coastal Eats booth, but nothing else.
Absolutely nothing beyond new TT.
Really, not even for WOL.

 

[James Alucobond]

Coco E-ticket is the leading contender for BBTM phase 1, likely utilizing the Soarin' 2.0 ride system.

AFAIK. YMMV.

Hope this is true. It's the only thing that's been proposed that makes any sense as an extension of Frontierland rather than an awkward miniland shoved in between more unified ideas.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

One post: “Coco is the leading contender for BBT”
Immediately one post down: “Coco was cut from BBT”

Love it lmao

 

[PREMiERdrum]

One post: “Coco is the leading contender for BBT”
Immediately one post down: “Coco was cut from BBT”

Love it lmao

It's been a minute since we had substantive stuff flying around at this speed!

We are *so* back.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

I can’t say for certain that Coco was scrapped from BBT, but that does seem like the most likely possibility. As I showed in a previous post, much of the Coco area originally slated for BBT was copied over to DAK. It’s true that Disney sometimes puts multiple attractions for the same IP in different parks, but this one doesn’t pass the smell test – if they were already moving Encanto out of BBT, that would leave more space for Coco there, not less, so why move half of the Coco stuff elsewhere (unless you are removing Coco from BBT altogether)? Especially considering how many other IP choices they had for TA, that decision would not have made much sense if they wanted Coco to have a presence at MK.

Nothing from the original Dinoland-replacement Blue Sky concept art is actually getting built there. We already know Encanto was moved out of BBT. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the BBT artwork coming to fruition.

Doesn’t mean we’ll never see the Flight of Pepita ride get built, but my guess is it’s not on the roadmap for right now.

The back-and-forth we've seen with the art is atypical, and a direct result of them knowing what properties they wanted to use and which areas they want to develop and redevelop, but not having a clue what and where.

The Moana art we saw for AK was first drawn for another location. Same for Zootopia. The Encanto and Coco grafts had a similar path. BBTM had a very unlikely path due to development costs until relatively recently, so the cards seems to have been shuffled again. Coco, Encanto, and Moana have immense internal support. Getting Coco into AK was a no-brainer with the Tropical Americas land, but the as-designed Coco E-Ticket is absolutely the leading candidate to anchor BBTM.

 

[Teddybearre]

My issue is not that Coco itself is in two parks, but it’s just that Tropical America’s is looking to be heavily Mexican influenced, and I would expect New Frontierland to be super Mexican influenced as well. I’m worried it’ll feel like they built the same land in two parks

 

[Ichabod Crane]

The back-and-forth we've seen with the art is atypical, and a direct result of them knowing what properties they wanted to use and which areas they want to develop and redevelop, but not having a clue what and where.

The Moana art we saw for AK was first drawn for another location. Same for Zootopia. The Encanto and Coco grafts had a similar path. BBTM had a very unlikely path due to development costs until relatively recently, so the cards seems to have been shuffled again. Coco, Encanto, and Moana have immense internal support. Getting Coco into AK was a no-brainer with the Tropical Americas land, but the as-designed Coco E-Ticket is absolutely the leading candidate to anchor BBTM.

I wonder if maybe instead of putting a whole coco land in BBT they just plan to use some of the space for the E ticket and plan to lump it in with Frontierland itself.

 

[TalkingHead]

Soarin over Coco is definitely a (very modern-WDI) choice.

 

[James Alucobond]

My issue is not that Coco itself is in two parks, but it’s just that Tropical America’s is looking to be heavily Mexican influenced, and I would expect New Frontierland to be super Mexican influenced as well. I’m worried it’ll feel like they built the same land in two parks

I think "heavily Mexican-influenced" is a stretch. I see a lot of similarities to the Colombian towns that inspired Encanto in the renderings, as in the image below. Also, no one is batting an eye at there now being a pre-Colombian step pyramid in both Animal Kingdom and EPCOT.

 

[DisneyDodo]

I wonder if maybe instead of putting a whole coco land in BBT they just plan to use some of the space for the E ticket and plan to lump it in with Frontierland itself.

The E ticket doesn’t take place in Mexico, but in the Land of the Dead, so it would be an odd fit for Frontierland. The facade is Ernesto de la Cruz’s mausoleum, which wouldn’t necessarily clash aesthetically, but the ride concept has nothing to do with western expansion.

Of course, that alone would not prevent modern Disney from putting it there, but it begs the question of why they would export the Mexican village that made this a solid fit to begin with to another park, if that’s the direction they’re going.

I don’t believe Coco is still slated to have a presence in this area.

 

[James Alucobond]

The E ticket doesn’t take place in Mexico, but in the Land of the Dead, so it would be an odd fit for Frontierland. The facade is Ernesto de la Cruz’s mausoleum, which wouldn’t necessarily clash aesthetically, but the ride concept has nothing to do with western expansion.

Of course, that alone would not prevent modern Disney from putting it there, but it begs the question of why they would export the Mexican village that made this a solid fit to begin with to another park, if that’s the direction they’re going.

I don’t believe Coco is still slated to have a presence in this area.

... Did Splash ever explicitly have anything to do with western expansion? It not only wouldn't stop them now; it never really stopped them before. And again, what keeps a southwestern or just south-of-the-border village from being the hub of this? It would still be fundamentally distinct from the tropical town being put in AK.

 

[zann285]

I'm imagining that the proposed Coco carousel in the Tropical Americas area at DAK came about like this:

Imagineer 1: "And to round out this Central American themed village, we'll feature a charming carousel with beautiful figurines of South and Central American animals, highlighting their connection to the culture of the region while both giving good kinetics and replacing the capacity of the removed dino spinner."

Imagineer 2: "You know the execs will never greenlight anything without an IP attached right?"

Imagineer 1: (Sigh) "Did I say figurines of South and Central American animals? I meant Coco spirit animals!"

Having a smaller attraction that showcases the region's cultural ties to animals as spirit animals honestly seems like a great fit for Animal Kingdom, and would obviously tie into Coco, but doesn't necessarily even need to heavily feature the characters from the film. At the same time, having Frontierland go South of the border a bit and feature a big ride flying through the scenery of Coco also seems cool, and different enough from what Animal Kingdom may have. Magic Kingdom tends for fanciful versions of lands after all, while Animal Kingdom tends for more realism. It could certainly turn out too similar between the two, but I think there is plenty that could be done to differentiate things.

 

[Ghost93]

Is the Villains land still being planned for beyond Big Thunder Mountain? That is what I was most excited about, and that's what got the loudest applause when the idea was thrown around a few years ago.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Is the Villains land still being planned for beyond Big Thunder Mountain? That is what I was most excited about, and that's what got the loudest applause when the idea was thrown around a few years ago.

Sounds like it is but there seems to be varying degrees of confidence in it actually panning out.

 

[DisneyDodo]

... Did Splash ever explicitly have anything to do with western expansion? It not only wouldn't stop them now; it never really stopped them before. And again, what keeps a southwestern or just south-of-the-border village from being the hub of this? It would still be fundamentally distinct from the tropical town being put in AK.

Splash at least took place in North America, and they took steps to “westernify” it, even if the source material was technically set in Georgia.

That’s not the same as a fantastical Land of the Dead, located in a completely different realm that living people (generally) can’t access. That concept has 0 connection to Frontierland. The original concept art (which, btw, was for a separate land adjacent to FL and not an extension to FL) at least had some chemistry with its neighbor in the form of the Santa Cecilia plaza. That area is being recreated in DAK. They’re not building it twice.

So the suggestion here is that they ripped out the thing that connected this area to FL only to integrate the rest of the land into FL itself?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Splash at least took place in North America, and they took steps to “westernify” it, even if the source material was technically set in Georgia.

That’s not the same as a fantastical Land of the Dead, located in a completely different realm that living people (generally) can’t access. That concept has 0 connection to Frontierland. The original concept art (which, btw, was for a separate land adjacent to FL and not an extension to FL) at least had some chemistry with its neighbor in the form of the Santa Cecilia plaza. That area is being recreated in DAK. They’re not building it twice.

So the suggestion here is that they ripped out the thing that connected this area to FL only to integrate the rest of the land into FL itself?

That was just me theorizing as to how they could still do the ride itself while seemingly moving the rest of the planned land over to AK. But I didn’t know it was explicitly land of the dead themed.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Is the Villains land still being planned for beyond Big Thunder Mountain? That is what I was most excited about, and that's what got the loudest applause when the idea was thrown around a few years ago.

They have not abandoned the concept. But to my understanding, this part of BBTM was, and still is, slated as a second phase.

If they’re going to shorten RoA, this could be quite a number of years away (which also gives them extra time to change their minds). If they keep RoA as is OTOH, they’ll have less room to work with and the land will be less ambitious. So pick your poison

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I’d rather they just made the whole BBT area villains at this point.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Any “Villains Land” at MK is a great way to ensure a sizable portion of guests don’t set foot in it. I’m sorry but Villains is quite niche and not appealing to families with younger children.

 

[DisneyDodo]

That was just me theorizing as to how they could still do the ride itself while seemingly moving the rest of the planned land over to AK. But I didn’t know it was explicitly land of the dead themed.

Another option they could go (though I’m not suggesting they will) would be to expand the scope of the villains land to be a general spooky land and include this ride there. Or even keep it as villains land and heavily feature de la Cruz in the ride.