AVATAR progress

T

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
NoChesterHester said:
Absolutely agree on the point that they obviously announced it too early. Or at least earlier than normal.

At the time they stated a 2015 opening date however, which doesn't seem possible at this point.

I fully believe however that the reports of it "falling apart" were accurate. I don't believe for one second this has been a normal development process. I'm sure that both parties were ready to throw in the towel at various points. In the end that could be healthy for the final product.

I'm glad the project is moving forward. Don't count me in the haters. I just find the development pace maddenly slow.
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One of my favorite posters and a great post. Couldn't agree more.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
CTXRover said:
I know this was probably a rhetorical question, but the partnership was announced September 2011 and reportedly development and blue sky started after that. So technically, less than 2 years. Pretty typical for a project of this size (i.e. a land). We've had the unusual perspective to have insight into the back and forth of development of a project like this, in addition to what I suspect was filtered information to support the notion that it was falling apart, which seems less and less likely as time passes.
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Right. Development's a broad term though. There's multiple ways to answer this. First, yes, this project was announced way before it would normally be. Iger wanted a splash because of Cameron's involvement, and because it was being talked about at the time they were also talking about the announcement Jim was working on 2 more Avatar movies. Iger also knew that once Jim went to work on the films, he would lose Jim's availability in making announcements. For something like this, you need Cameron in person standing next to you. So, they made the deal that said Disney would be the ones to develop themed attractions based on the Avatar IP with only a broad idea of what those attractions may be. Then Jim went into meetings with WDI and the process began. That process normally takes years, but they expected to fast track. That didn't happen. There was a disconnect between what the theme park guys wanted and knew they had budgeted vs. what Jim wanted. Jim's going to push the envelope and make you figure it out because that's what he would do. There is a group of parks people who do what Jim does well, and that's how we end up with the E-ticket envelope pushing attractions. There's a much larger group of parks people who are less versed in "figuring it out" and would rather build something easy. The former group had to figure it all out based on both sides' ideas, and then sell it on to both Jim and WDW management, and then do it cost-effectively. Not an easy challenge, and it took a while, with many people ready to throw in the towel at various points. That's normal on a project like this in the first place, but when you have a Cameron in the mix and Iger breathing down your neck, you amplify that.

So once they settled on the design and ride systems, they have to engineer it and make sure it works. That's what's going on now. Normal work-flow process for building a theme park attraction:
  1. Blue sky / Concept
  2. R&D Development (if a ride system exists, or the concept uses tech that's already in use, this phase shifts down to be concurrent with other phases if needed. Otherwise, have to make sure what is planned works, before going to drawings.)
  3. Design Development & Schematic (all drawings and mechanical designs are done during this phase)
  4. Fabrication & Install
  5. Test & Adjust
  6. Open & Hand-over
  7. Final adjustments
Concept finished when Jim turned his focus back to the films around April, I believe. We're now in DD on the architectural side and any design that doesn't involve what is currently being R&D'd. R&D is going concurrently, and will continue through DD/Schematic until they know everything works. This is a bit unusual, but if something doesn't work, they'll go with a plan B and keep to what they want to do in a different way.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
NoChesterHester said:
Absolutely agree on the point that they obviously announced it too early. Or at least earlier than normal.

At the time they stated a 2015 opening date however, which doesn't seem possible at this point.

I fully believe however that the reports of it "falling apart" were accurate. I don't believe for one second this has been a normal development process. I'm sure that both parties were ready to throw in the towel at various points. In the end that could be healthy for the final product.

I'm glad the project is moving forward. Don't count me in the haters. I just find the development pace maddenly slow.
Click to expand...
Also accurate. Has not been a normal development process. Could have been shelved at any point if Cameron and WDI could not come to agreement, which is why the back and forth on go/not going. In the end, everyone wants to make it happen more than letting the egos/budget get in the way, so it worked out.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
articos said:
Then Jim went into meetings with WDI and the process began. That process normally takes years, but they expected to fast track. That didn't happen. There was a disconnect between what the theme park guys wanted and knew they had budgeted vs. what Jim wanted. Jim's going to push the envelope and make you figure it out because that's what he would do. There is a group of parks people who do what Jim does well, and that's how we end up with the E-ticket envelope pushing attractions.
Click to expand...
One of the best things about the Avatar project is that it brought Cameron on board. He understands show, he understands spectacle, and he thinks in big and quality. Awesome. Just what WDW needs!

Wish they would hand over the Living Seas to him. 'The Seas with James Cameron' - now there's a first, an EPCOT celeb tie-in I could fully support!
 
Texas84

Texas84

Well-Known Member
I'm probably the only one who cares, but I hope they relocate the Donald fishing scene. At the very least a nice place to escape and have an ice cream. I'm guessing it all gets moved to a warehouse.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Texas84 said:
I'm probably the only one who cares, but I hope they relocate the Donald fishing scene. At the very least a nice place to escape and have an ice cream. I'm guessing it all gets moved to a warehouse.
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I too love that! I love that Donald. And the nephews too! It's cute. Wish they would find a place somwhere else. I'd move it next to the MK Railroad, in the boring stretch above Fantasyland.
 
Figments Friend

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Sounds like things are moving forward ...which makes me happy.
Thank you Articos and TIm for the insights. Good to know things are coming along.

I agree that the timing of the announcement was a bit early.
The end result will more then make up for the long wait, that i am sure of.

:)
 
NoChesterHester

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
articos said:
Right. Development's a broad term though. There's multiple ways to answer this. First, yes, this project was announced way before it would normally be. Iger wanted a splash because of Cameron's involvement, and because it was being talked about at the time they were also talking about the announcement Jim was working on 2 more Avatar movies. Iger also knew that once Jim went to work on the films, he would lose Jim's availability in making announcements. For something like this, you need Cameron in person standing next to you. So, they made the deal that said Disney would be the ones to develop themed attractions based on the Avatar IP with only a broad idea of what those attractions may be. Then Jim went into meetings with WDI and the process began. That process normally takes years, but they expected to fast track. That didn't happen. There was a disconnect between what the theme park guys wanted and knew they had budgeted vs. what Jim wanted. Jim's going to push the envelope and make you figure it out because that's what he would do. There is a group of parks people who do what Jim does well, and that's how we end up with the E-ticket envelope pushing attractions. There's a much larger group of parks people who are less versed in "figuring it out" and would rather build something easy. The former group had to figure it all out based on both sides' ideas, and then sell it on to both Jim and WDW management, and then do it cost-effectively. Not an easy challenge, and it took a while, with many people ready to throw in the towel at various points. That's normal on a project like this in the first place, but when you have a Cameron in the mix and Iger breathing down your neck, you amplify that.

So once they settled on the design and ride systems, they have to engineer it and make sure it works. That's what's going on now. Normal work-flow process for building a theme park attraction:
  1. Blue sky / Concept
  2. R&D Development (if a ride system exists, or the concept uses tech that's already in use, this phase shifts down to be concurrent with other phases if needed. Otherwise, have to make sure what is planned works, before going to drawings.)
  3. Design Development & Schematic (all drawings and mechanical designs are done during this phase)
  4. Fabrication & Install
  5. Test & Adjust
  6. Open & Hand-over
  7. Final adjustments
Concept finished when Jim turned his focus back to the films around April, I believe. We're now in DD on the architectural side and any design that doesn't involve what is currently being R&D'd. R&D is going concurrently, and will continue through DD/Schematic until they know everything works. This is a bit unusual, but if something doesn't work, they'll go with a plan B and keep to what they want to do in a different way.
Click to expand...

Quoted, so hopefully people will read this twice.

The best synopsis we have heard of the actual process, both what likely occurred on Avatar and also what the typical timeline entails.

Thank you.
 
Next Big Thing

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
One of the best things about the Avatar project is that it brought Cameron on board. He understands show, he understands spectacle, and he thinks in big and quality. Awesome. Just what WDW needs!

Wish they would hand over the Living Seas to him. 'The Seas with James Cameron' - now there's a first, an EPCOT celeb tie-in I could fully support!
Click to expand...
Or we could tie into one of his other movies! 'The Seas of Austrailia - A Sanctum Expedition with James Cameron'. It even fits the recent bill of long attraction names!
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Next Big Thing said:
Or we could tie into one of his other movies! 'The Seas of Austrailia - A Sanctum Expedition with James Cameron'. It even fits the recent bill of long attraction names!
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Those long ride names suck, don't they? They are not evocative at all. Plain mood-ruiners, in general. Another reason to keep the managers out of the creative process.

As a side-note, I would looooove a Titanic presence in Disney. Either a scene in the Great Movie Ride, or a DHS attraction of its own, or, most of all, a waterpark attraction! (Come on, you know you want to slide of that deck into some freezing water!)
 
Vernonpush

Vernonpush

Well-Known Member
gboiler1 said:
I wonder if perhaps only a few characters will be created strolling around for meet and greets because they have such a specific look. Tall, thin and athletic.
I think Imagineering will have a heyday with all the unique vegitation and colors but I'm curious if they'll create a Tree of Souls. We might see a show inside the tree ala Tough to be a Bug although not the same type of show.
I also wonder how long it will take to move Lion King to it's new home. I wouldn't think long.
I really expect a major Wow Factor when it's all done.
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From what I've heard, it should be "a seamless transition. One day at Camp Minnie Mickey and the next at Africa."
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Tim_4 said:
Lol read the thread. You're a few months behind.

Currently:
E
C
Restaurant
Merch
Nighttime show
Nighttime updates elsewhere in the park
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But no night parade?

I really think they need either a nighttime show (a la WoC) or a night parade to keep people in the park all day and into the night.
 

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