AVATAR progress

englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
doctornick said:
I think @Tim_4 is saying that there is "definitely" plans for Avatar + other stuff to be completed by 2017. Obviously, nothing is absolutely definite until it is done and even stuff that is announced and has dedicated funding can be derailed, but he point seems to be that this is beyond blue sky and is in the more aggressive planning stage with funding earmarked.

There's no link because nothing is official or announced to the public.
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Someday my Prince will come.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
englanddg said:
So, Avatar is 2017, definitely? Or a nighttime show is 2017, definitely? Got a link for that, or is that just your assertion?

(I'm not trying to be confrontational with you, so please don't take offense)
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Both. The nighttime project isn't certain, as it could still be cut (although I doubt it will be at this point), but the entire project scope is now on track for mid-2017. The 2017 date was also mentioned in a recent interview with GK.
 
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Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
So, Avatar is 2017, definitely? Or a nighttime show is 2017, definitely? Got a link for that, or is that just your assertion?

(I'm not trying to be confrontational with you, so please don't take offense)
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englanddg said:
Someday my Prince will come.
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The capital budget has been set. The light is green. @articos and I are your friendly neighborhood insiders re: Avatar. Trust us. Or don't. Doesn't hurt my feelings. The budget is between Fantasyland and DCA.

The only reason the C- ticket or nighttime show would be cancelled is if the E-ticket or the land itself went way over budget but the budget they have is fairly generous so I think they'll be safe.
 
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Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
doctornick said:
Right, I think they need to buff up DAK and DHS so that people feel compelled that they "have to" visit them on every trip to WW because their offerings are so good. This would help to keep people on property and increase spending in the parks (e.g. getting dinner at DAK).

As an aside, if they did add a nighttime entertainment (show or parade) to DAK, it would be nice if they had some sort of reliable/frequent transport to AKL from the park beyond the buses -- some sort of light rail or small monorail would be a good way to view AKL as part of expanded meal offerings while at DAK. Especially since the restaurants at AKL are quite good and unique and the offerings within DAK are somewhat limited even if they add a Pandora restaurant.

Just tossing ideas out, but what about a monorail between AKL and DAK sort of like the monorail at DLR. If there were some animals in between to see, it could be sold as an "attraction" in addition to being more rapid transport for the resort guests, which would help sell DVC there as well.
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You nailed the strategy in your first paragraph. Now it's just how they execute.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
articos said:
Both. The nighttime project isn't certain, as it could still be cut (although I doubt it will be at this point), but the entire project scope is now on track for mid-2017. The 2017 date was also mentioned in a recent interview with GK.
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Ok, so, in 2017 when it's been shelved, or the major attraction is still under construction, do I have bragging rights? <kidding>

I've long said I'm not a fan of Avatar, but I hope this is true. I hope it comes out in 2017, I hope it's amazing, and I really don't mean to be negative about it all.

But, I am. I am sick of "blue sky" and fake "announcements" and "extended construction schedules"...

Disney ruined so many things, and yet does so many things so well. I just hate to see them mired in such bureaucratic nonsense as to spend years and tons of money on something that has little to no impact.

I'm gonna reference Walt, but not to "win" anything, just to point out that the man wasn't a "God" either...he made tons of mistakes with Disneyland. The Circus is my favorite story. What happened to the risk / reward? What happened to the "Imagination" in "Imagineering"?

I see far more impressive things coming out of Universal right now...things that have me interested and I'm in my mid-30s and jaded.

Where is that spirit at Disney?
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Tim_4 said:
The capital budget has been set. The light is green. @articos and I are your friendly neighborhood insiders re: Avatar. Trust us. Or don't. Doesn't hurt my feelings. The budget is between Fantasyland and DCA.

The only reason the C- ticket or nighttime show would be cancelled is if the E-ticket or the land itself went way over budget but the budget they have is fairly generous so I think they'll be safe.
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I hope you are right.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
doctornick said:
Right, I think they need to buff up DAK and DHS so that people feel compelled that they "have to" visit them on every trip to WW because their offerings are so good. This would help to keep people on property and increase spending in the parks (e.g. getting dinner at DAK).

As an aside, if they did add a nighttime entertainment (show or parade) to DAK, it would be nice if they had some sort of reliable/frequent transport to AKL from the park beyond the buses -- some sort of light rail or small monorail would be a good way to view AKL as part of expanded meal offerings while at DAK. Especially since the restaurants at AKL are quite good and unique and the offerings within DAK are somewhat limited even if they add a Pandora restaurant.

Just tossing ideas out, but what about a monorail between AKL and DAK sort of like the monorail at DLR. If there were some animals in between to see, it could be sold as an "attraction" in addition to being more rapid transport for the resort guests, which would help sell DVC there as well.
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This is definitely a must do. Since the park closes early dinner is mostly an afterthought at AK. If they want to have nighttime entertainment they need more dining options. I would be in favor of a big dinner show type meal. Something with a big fire pit and live entertainment. Think luau with an African theme perhaps. They could also add a character dinner as well. The transports to AKL is a solid idea too. That place is pretty cool and many never see it if they aren't staying there. A ground level light rail would be relatively inexpensive compared to an elevated monorail. Even cheaper and perhaps better themed would be a train ride. Similar to the one that gets you to Rafiki's. A simple loop would be easy to complete and again, not super expensive.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
GoofGoof said:
This is definitely a must do. Since the park closes early dinner is mostly an afterthought at AK. If they want to have nighttime entertainment they need more dining options. I would be in favor of a big dinner show type meal. Something with a big fire pit and live entertainment. Think luau with an African theme perhaps. They could also add a character dinner as well. The transports to AKL is a solid idea too. That place is pretty cool and many never see it if they aren't staying there. A ground level light rail would be relatively inexpensive compared to an elevated monorail. Even cheaper and perhaps better themed would be a train ride. Similar to the one that gets you to Rafiki's. A simple loop would be easy to complete and again, not super expensive.
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I think part of the issue with a nighttime show at AKL is venue. Where would the crowds gather? It would require an overhaul of the waterfront, if it's a waterfront based show, or the paths leading up to the Tree of Life if it's going to based on that...

It's not like the other parks...it's so closed in with tree canopies, etc. It's the only Park that even though I know the layout and have visited many times, I still get somewhat lost while there. And I'm FAR more regular than the average tourist. Viewing areas would be at a premium.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Tim_4 said:
NGE is a lot more expensive than Avatar but the investors haven't seemed to mind there. Fanboy wrath is more likely than investor wrath.
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True. But, NGE has expense lines that can be cut once it's implemented, such as paper cost for fast passes. Not to mention merchandising opportunities for custom bands, etc (and I'm just tossing out things here)...

Avatar...is a brand that isn't even well known anymore. Heck, if you say Avatar to my kid, she's expecting an Airbender, not a towering blue alien (and she's seen both!)...

The only intriguing thing I've seen out of Disney about Avatar (again, noting, I'm not a fan of it, so take my comments with that grain of salt) is the interactive plants that came out from Disney Research a year or so ago...
 
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Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
True. But, NGE has expense lines that can be cut once it's implemented, such as paper cost for fast passes. Not to mention merchandising opportunities for custom bands, etc (and I'm just tossing out things here)...

Avatar...is a brand that isn't even well known anymore. Heck, if you say Avatar to my kid, she's expecting an Airbender, not a towering blue alien (and she's seen both!)...

The only intriguing thing I've seen out of Disney about Avatar (again, noting, I'm not a fan of it, so take my comments with that grain of salt) is the interactive plants that came out from Disney Research a year or so ago...
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1. An RFID ticket costs more than even the heaviest Fastpass user's paper tickets. Bands cost even more.

2. You're absolutely right about the customizable bands. Think Jibbitz.

3. Avatar isn't about selling a brand. It's about selling an environment. The WORLD of Avatar should be more beautiful than anything in Potterverse. Note I said "beautiful," not more popular. People won't go to Disney specifically for Avatar like they do for Potter, but there's really no single attraction at Disney that it's supposed to function that way.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Tim_4 said:
1. An RFID ticket costs more than even the heaviest Fastpass user's paper tickets. Bands cost even more.

2. You're absolutely right about the customizable bands. Think Jibbitz.

3. Avatar isn't about selling a brand. It's about selling an environment. The WORLD of Avatar should be more beautiful than anything in Potterverse. Note I said "beautiful," not more popular. People won't go to Disney specifically for Avatar like they do for Potter, but there's really no single attraction at Disney that it's supposed to function that way.
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Excellent response.

1) I'm not sure the paper cost is completely wiped out, if the ticket cost is adjusted to allow for the RFID / Band cost.

2) Yep

3) Selling "beauty" is a great thing, and I truly hope I walk into Avatarland in 2017 and my socks are knocked off, but forgive me if I'm a bit cynical about it at this point.
 
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Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
englanddg said:
Selling "beauty" is a great thing, and I truly hope I walk into Avatarland in 2017 and my socks are knocked off, but forgive me if I'm a bit cynical about it at this point.
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Based on recent history I'd agree, but based on the little birdies who whisper in my ear, this could be a real turning point. Not just beautiful, but technologically really freaking awesome.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Tim_4 said:
Based on recent history I'd agree, but based on the little birdies who whisper in my ear, this could be a real turning point. Not just beautiful, but technologically really freaking awesome.
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I've seen a lot of little birdies. I've also seen Universal slap out amazing things at breakneck speed.

Disney has a larger budget, better (assumed) people, and far more IP to draw upon...and yet the best they've done is a knock off of a second rate ride at DCA and a new restaurant...with a fantastic dragon they only used once...for the press.

I see no interest in Disney at doing anything amazing at WDW. I hope I am wrong.
 

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