AVATAR land - the specifics

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
I have a question. Bear with me, it pertains here.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201209/dan-marino-loses-millions-company-gone-bankrupt

I read the article in that link yesterday. Here's my question: if James Cameron is supposedly making the new Avatar movies, why has the stock for his special effects company tanked? Shouldn't they have gone the other way? Also, if we're to think that the stock dive is a sign then paired it with what's been rumored as big ol' fat delays for the new films, am I wrong in thinking Avatar might not be such a hot commodity? What would that mean for this project with Disney? If the movies aren't looking like they're going to happen in the foreseeable future, would Disney still go there? Just curious!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I have a question. Bear with me, it pertains here.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201209/dan-marino-loses-millions-company-gone-bankrupt

I read the article in that link yesterday. Here's my question: if James Cameron is supposedly making the new Avatar movies, why has the stock for his special effects company tanked? Shouldn't they have gone the other way? Also, if we're to think that the stock dive is a sign then paired it with what's been rumored as big ol' fat delays for the new films, am I wrong in thinking Avatar might not be such a hot commodity? What would that mean for this project with Disney? If the movies aren't looking like they're going to happen in the foreseeable future, would Disney still go there? Just curious!

That's what I meant earlier in saying that Cameron was a bit delusional. In his head, because Avatar made so much money, he thinks it caught on with the public. He thinks it is because it was an amazing film, not because it was the first true studio 3-D film made with the new technology from scratch, and the public (way back then) was very curious and wanted to see this 3-D technology. They went to experience the fad.

Now, several years later, when even the biggest supporters of 3-D are admitting it's popularity is dwindling, he still thinks it's because of the film itself. How many people who saw it can even name a character in the film? And "avatar" is such a generic term (including a popular children's franchise) that you have to remind people, "You know, the 3-D movie with blue people...no, not the Smurfs! The one with Ripley!"

I liken it to Lance Armstrong (current news stories about him aside). A few years ago he underwent some tests, and basically he is a mutant, LOL. His lungs have 6x the capacity of normal people's lungs, etc. When discussing this on CNN, his reaction at being told the test results was, "Well...I just like to think I work harder..." (than other people). He was confronted with medical evidence of why he can do what he does (again, current news aside), and didn't want to acknowledge it because his ego didn't want to think that it was in large part due to genetics.

Avatar has largely been forgotten by the public, and while I'm sure a new film won't tank - it will do nowhere near the business. It's ironic, because they shot themselves in the foot - they pushed 3-D TV into the marketplace (how many people do you know who actually use one with the big ugly glasses, though?) and by then there will be even more out there - so just like it always was, lots of people will likely just wait to see it on video.

And the fact he has been doing the press rounds lately, and as far as I can tell hasn't said one word about the Disney attractions - when I'd expect him to be shouting it off from the rooftops - "I'm (going to be) the KING OF (DISNEY) WORLD!", telling us how it will be the most amazing attraction ever built...I'm somehow doubting that it is really even still on the table.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I have a question. Bear with me, it pertains here.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201209/dan-marino-loses-millions-company-gone-bankrupt

I read the article in that link yesterday. Here's my question: if James Cameron is supposedly making the new Avatar movies, why has the stock for his special effects company tanked? Shouldn't they have gone the other way? Also, if we're to think that the stock dive is a sign then paired it with what's been rumored as big ol' fat delays for the new films, am I wrong in thinking Avatar might not be such a hot commodity? What would that mean for this project with Disney? If the movies aren't looking like they're going to happen in the foreseeable future, would Disney still go there? Just curious!

I would agree that Avatar might not be a hot commodity, but reading some articles about the Digital Domain bankruptcy it appears that the stock crash probably didn't have much to do with a lack of faith in Avatar, but more about poor financial performance probably caused by some bad business decisions.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
I have a question. Bear with me, it pertains here.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201209/dan-marino-loses-millions-company-gone-bankrupt

I read the article in that link yesterday. Here's my question: if James Cameron is supposedly making the new Avatar movies, why has the stock for his special effects company tanked? Shouldn't they have gone the other way? Also, if we're to think that the stock dive is a sign then paired it with what's been rumored as big ol' fat delays for the new films, am I wrong in thinking Avatar might not be such a hot commodity? What would that mean for this project with Disney? If the movies aren't looking like they're going to happen in the foreseeable future, would Disney still go there? Just curious!

Cameron is a minority owner in that company at this time. Much of the new Avatar movies were going to be done in New Zealand anyway. The current FX industry is in tons of turmoil, and DD's bankruptcy is a symptom of this. It's not "The Avatar Company", it's an FX company that worked on Avatar. It's a mistake to think of DD as being like ILM is to Lucasfilm. So--in short, DD's troubles have nothing at all to do with Avatar.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
That's what I meant earlier in saying that Cameron was a bit delusional. In his head, because Avatar made so much money, he thinks it caught on with the public. He thinks it is because it was an amazing film, not because it was the first true studio 3-D film made with the new technology from scratch, and the public (way back then) was very curious and wanted to see this 3-D technology. They went to experience the fad.

Now, several years later, when even the biggest supporters of 3-D are admitting it's popularity is dwindling, he still thinks it's because of the film itself. How many people who saw it can even name a character in the film? And "avatar" is such a generic term (including a popular children's franchise) that you have to remind people, "You know, the 3-D movie with blue people...no, not the Smurfs! The one with Ripley!"

I liken it to Lance Armstrong (current news stories about him aside). A few years ago he underwent some tests, and basically he is a mutant, LOL. His lungs have 6x the capacity of normal people's lungs, etc. When discussing this on CNN, his reaction at being told the test results was, "Well...I just like to think I work harder..." (than other people). He was confronted with medical evidence of why he can do what he does (again, current news aside), and didn't want to acknowledge it because his ego didn't want to think that it was in large part due to genetics.

Avatar has largely been forgotten by the public, and while I'm sure a new film won't tank - it will do nowhere near the business. It's ironic, because they shot themselves in the foot - they pushed 3-D TV into the marketplace (how many people do you know who actually use one with the big ugly glasses, though?) and by then there will be even more out there - so just like it always was, lots of people will likely just wait to see it on video.

And the fact he has been doing the press rounds lately, and as far as I can tell hasn't said one word about the Disney attractions - when I'd expect him to be shouting it off from the rooftops - "I'm (going to be) the KING OF (DISNEY) WORLD!", telling us how it will be the most amazing attraction ever built...I'm somehow doubting that it is really even still on the table.

I don't really keep up with "the times" but I can tell you that my family doesn't really care for 3D movies. They just aren't our thing. Plus, it's like Dash said, when everyone is special that means nobody is. With so much 3D the novelty vaporizes.

I didn't realize JC had been making the rounds in the press. His lack of mention about Disney is rather compelling when you think about it. How better to drum up excitement about your (hopeful) films than to pair them with a physical environment people can go see & touch? Interesting...


I would agree that Avatar might not be a hot commodity, but reading some articles about the Digital Domain bankruptcy it appears that the stock crash probably didn't have much to do with a lack of faith in Avatar, but more about poor financial performance probably caused by some bad business decisions.
Cameron is a minority owner in that company at this time. Much of the new Avatar movies were going to be done in New Zealand anyway. The current FX industry is in tons of turmoil, and DD's bankruptcy is a symptom of this. It's not "The Avatar Company", it's an FX company that worked on Avatar. It's a mistake to think of DD as being like ILM is to Lucasfilm. So--in short, DD's troubles have nothing at all to do with Avatar.

These are the things I have no knowledge of. I read the article and it made me wonder. Naturally, a person totally NOT in-the-know such as myself would associate DD with JC's film(s) in the same way ILM is w/Lucasfilm. When you say the new Avatar movies were going to be done in New Zealand, does that mean filmed or at an effects company there? I'm curious who JC would use if not DD to take care of his effects needs.
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
That's what I meant earlier in saying that Cameron was a bit delusional. In his head, because Avatar made so much money, he thinks it caught on with the public. He thinks it is because it was an amazing film, not because it was the first true studio 3-D film made with the new technology from scratch, and the public (way back then) was very curious and wanted to see this 3-D technology. They went to experience the fad.

Now, several years later, when even the biggest supporters of 3-D are admitting it's popularity is dwindling, he still thinks it's because of the film itself. How many people who saw it can even name a character in the film? And "avatar" is such a generic term (including a popular children's franchise) that you have to remind people, "You know, the 3-D movie with blue people...no, not the Smurfs! The one with Ripley!"

I liken it to Lance Armstrong (current news stories about him aside). A few years ago he underwent some tests, and basically he is a mutant, LOL. His lungs have 6x the capacity of normal people's lungs, etc. When discussing this on CNN, his reaction at being told the test results was, "Well...I just like to think I work harder..." (than other people). He was confronted with medical evidence of why he can do what he does (again, current news aside), and didn't want to acknowledge it because his ego didn't want to think that it was in large part due to genetics.

Avatar has largely been forgotten by the public, and while I'm sure a new film won't tank - it will do nowhere near the business. It's ironic, because they shot themselves in the foot - they pushed 3-D TV into the marketplace (how many people do you know who actually use one with the big ugly glasses, though?) and by then there will be even more out there - so just like it always was, lots of people will likely just wait to see it on video.

And the fact he has been doing the press rounds lately, and as far as I can tell hasn't said one word about the Disney attractions - when I'd expect him to be shouting it off from the rooftops - "I'm (going to be) the KING OF (DISNEY) WORLD!", telling us how it will be the most amazing attraction ever built...I'm somehow doubting that it is really even still on the table.
I believe you will see that Cameron is a different kind of monster. With all the bad publicity before titanic and avatar he not once said a thing. He will shout I'm king of the Disney world after it happens, if it happens. He won't brag until his product is in place. To play devils advocate why would you begin promotion before ground even breaks it makes no sense. You can also blame the Internet bloggers for not asking him once directly about the project.
I said in a earlier post the hook for the sequels will be it is filming at 60 frames per second to issue in a new type of 3d. Don't count Cameron out,for some reason he is one of the few filmmakers that can bring all ages into the theaters. How many directors can shepard a totally new property into theaters from script stage to completed filming.
How did they shoot themselves in themselves in the foot. You basically did the same when you admitted you don't know anyone who uses those ugly glasses
Avatar 2/3 will come out and make bucket loads of money due to the fact it has his name on it.
Avatarland is still on the table as for now whether or not it will happen only a few people are in the know but after Rasulos comments I think the odds are better. Remember right now there are only possibilities not probabilities
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
I don't really keep up with "the times" but I can tell you that my family doesn't really care for 3D movies. They just aren't our thing. Plus, it's like Dash said, when everyone is special that means nobody is. With so much 3D the novelty vaporizes.

I didn't realize JC had been making the rounds in the press. His lack of mention about Disney is rather compelling when you think about it. How better to drum up excitement about your (hopeful) films than to pair them with a physical environment people can go see & touch? Interesting...





These are the things I have no knowledge of. I read the article and it made me wonder. Naturally, a person totally NOT in-the-know such as myself would associate DD with JC's film(s) in the same way ILM is w/Lucasfilm. When you say the new Avatar movies were going to be done in New Zealand, does that mean filmed or at an effects company there? I'm curious who JC would use if not DD to take care of his effects needs.
Cameron does go by a different drummer but if a person doesn't ask the question how can he answer,I'm sure he could segway into it but it could come off as cheesy.
The said thing is DD was used less for avatar than Ilm. Weta is doing the effects and Cameron is filming in New Zealand. Digital domain is in trouble due to bad investments,not turning work in on time an overbidding on effects work. Cameron is a minority owner and not involved in daily operations.
Effects work on avatar
65% weta
30% ilm
5% digital domain and other houses
Digital domain never advanced there technology and they also had a hard time being competitive with ilm and weta. They weren't a small effects house but they never grew into a large one either
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Cameron does go by a different drummer but if a person doesn't ask the question how can he answer,I'm sure he could segway into it but it could come off as cheesy.
The said thing is DD was used less for avatar than Ilm. Weta is doing the effects and Cameron is filming in New Zealand. Digital domain is in trouble due to bad investments,not turning work in on time an overbidding on effects work. Cameron is a minority owner and not involved in daily operations.
Effects work on avatar
65% weta
30% ilm
5% digital domain
Digital domain never advanced there technology and they also had a hard time being competitive with ilm and weta. They weren't a small effects house but they never grew into a large one either

Ah. Gotcha. ;)
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
I have a question. Bear with me, it pertains here.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201209/dan-marino-loses-millions-company-gone-bankrupt

I read the article in that link yesterday. Here's my question: if James Cameron is supposedly making the new Avatar movies, why has the stock for his special effects company tanked? Shouldn't they have gone the other way? Also, if we're to think that the stock dive is a sign then paired it with what's been rumored as big ol' fat delays for the new films, am I wrong in thinking Avatar might not be such a hot commodity? What would that mean for this project with Disney? If the movies aren't looking like they're going to happen in the foreseeable future, would Disney still go there? Just curious!
Weta and ilm are the effects house for avatar 2/3 digital effects had a very small contract for the films , it's means nothing about contract with Disney. If Disney does pull the trigger on avatar it will have very little to due with the plots of the films and more to due with the environment.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I believe you will see that Cameron is a different kind of monster. With all the bad publicity before titanic and avatar he not once said a thing. He will shout I'm king of the Disney world after it happens, if it happens. He won't brag until his product is in place. To play devils advocate why would you begin promotion before ground even breaks it makes no sense. You can also blame the Internet bloggers for not asking him once directly about the project.

Eh...I see what you are saying, but he certainly has promoted his stuff before it's happened. And it's smart to do - if it's really happening, and you think it's a project you will be proud of. Even if he didn't gush about it...he isn't saying anything. Not even mentioning it. When talking about the future of the franchise the supposed land is going to be based on, how he wants to make nothing but Avatar movies forever.

I said in a earlier post the hook for the sequels will be it is filming at 60 frames per second to issue in a new type of 3d.

LOL, I have a big old Seth and Amy, "Really?"

The average person doesn't know what 60fps is. And the only difference it will make is slightly more fluid movement - which, I'm sorry, I don't think many people complained Avatar wasn't "fluid" enough. This is the public that largely claims they cannot see much, if any, difference between Blu-ray and DVD (I disagree, I see a massive difference, but most people say they do not which is why Blu-ray is still a rather niche product).

That's not a "hook". It's something to get geeks teched up about, but nothing that will sell this film to the masses. "What is FPS?" is what you would hear, LOL. And if that's the best he's got to "hook" - LOL, it's worse than I thought. It's meaningless to most people's 3D experiences.

Don't count Cameron out,for some reason he is one of the few filmmakers that can bring all ages into the theaters. How many directors can shepard a totally new property into theaters from script stage to completed filming.

Now that is categorically untrue. The reason both Titanic and Avatar made so much money was repeat viewings - in Titanic's case it was teenage girls, in Avatar's case it was teenage boys. The evidence overwhelmingly shows that these were the main drivers of the gross of these films - teenagers who could go 3, 5, 10 times. Heck, I didn't even love Titanic, and I think I saw it 3 times in the theater when I was a teenager.

How did they shoot themselves in themselves in the foot. You basically did the same when you admitted you don't know anyone who uses those ugly glasses

It would take me an hour and I'd have to go way off topic to do so, so I'll have to summarize: the only (and I mean the only) reason the studios pushed 3-D in the theaters so much was because of the "3-D tax" - they can charge up to twice the price for a 3-D ticket as a 2-D film. (Which is a huge reason people are going even less now - once or twice they will pay it, but after that it becomes rote and that's why 2-D showings are up over 3-D in most cases vs. a year or two ago). Truth be told, the amount of people going to the movies has been in decline since WWII. They have fought TV, then video games, and now the Internet. It's ebbed and flowed, but it's been a constant struggle to convince people they need to go to a theater. 3-D did that for a short time, and it's never gone near (nor will it ever) go back to the average person going to the movies weekly as they did in those days.

The studios were very resistant to 3-D at home, because they didn't want people to be able to pay $30 for a Blu-ray and show as many people that they want, when they got $60 from a family of four each time they went to the theater - just to see the film once. That's why there were 3-D Blu-ray players and TV's sold long before you could actually BUY a 3-D film on Blu-ray (they were often incentives if you bought a "pack" of expensive glasses, etc. - Avatar has been available like that for a year or two, it hasn't even been released officially yet - though I believe it finally will be soon). The problem was the manufacturers - the manufacturers thought everyone in the world would be all Blu-ray'd up at this point. While penetration has gone higher (mostly people replacing broken DVD players since Blu-ray players play DVDs, too), they wanted to sell more TV's and more Blu-ray players so they kind of forced the issue. It was the only way to get people who just bought expensive HDTV's to buy another one, when most people were just going and buying a cheap one at Wal-mart, because to most eyes there isn't much difference.

When I "admitted" I don't know people who watch with goofy glasses at home, you missed the point - in five years, penetration will be deeper (just by default, as by then most TV's will have 3-D standard, if people use it or not). And by then we won't be dealing with expensive goggles, Polarized technology is here but not cheap enough, but by then it will just be a light pair of glasses like you wear at the theater. (Yes, autostereoscopic like Nintendo 3Ds is also coming along, but the super-limited viewing angles inherent in the tech are at least a decade more from becoming viable for home size screens and most viewers.)

So by the time Avatar 2/3/etc. comes out, this tech will already be in homes - polarized - for anyone who does wish to see it (in truth, not many - I think it's main future is in video games). People will just wait for it to come home, even if they do care.

All that mouthful said, people largely don't care about Avatar now, and I don't think five years will help that cause.

Avatar 2/3 will come out and make bucket loads of money due to the fact it has his name on it.
Avatarland is still on the table as for now whether or not it will happen only a few people are in the know but after Rasulos comments I think the odds are better. Remember right now there are only possibilities not probabilities

Oh no, there are probabilities, LOL. That sounds like a self-help guru type of talk.

We'll see if it ever happens. I've been a member of this board for eight years or so, and I assume I will be in another five. I guess we will just have to come back and see how it all turns out then. We may be riding the most revolutionary attractions ever built themed around Avatar, or we might not. I tend to think we will most likely be not, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
Eh...I see what you are saying, but he certainly has promoted his stuff before it's happened. And it's smart to do - if it's really happening, and you think it's a project you will be proud of. Even if he didn't gush about it...he isn't saying anything. Not even mentioning it. When talking about the future of the franchise the supposed land is going to be based on, how he wants to make nothing but Avatar movies forever.



LOL, I have a big old Seth and Amy, "Really?"

The average person doesn't know what 60fps is. And the only difference it will make is slightly more fluid movement - which, I'm sorry, I don't think many people complained Avatar wasn't "fluid" enough. This is the public that largely claims they cannot see much, if any, difference between Blu-ray and DVD (I disagree, I see a massive difference, but most people say they do not which is why Blu-ray is still a rather niche product).

That's not a "hook". It's something to get geeks teched up about, but nothing that will sell this film to the masses. "What is FPS?" is what you would hear, LOL. And if that's the best he's got to "hook" - LOL, it's worse than I thought. It's meaningless to most people's 3D experiences.



Now that is categorically untrue. The reason both Titanic and Avatar made so much money was repeat viewings - in Titanic's case it was teenage girls, in Avatar's case it was teenage boys. The evidence overwhelmingly shows that these were the main drivers of the gross of these films - teenagers who could go 3, 5, 10 times. Heck, I didn't even love Titanic, and I think I saw it 3 times in the theater when I was a teenager.



It would take me an hour and I'd have to go way off topic to do so, so I'll have to summarize: the only (and I mean the only) reason the studios pushed 3-D in the theaters so much was because of the "3-D tax" - they can charge up to twice the price for a 3-D ticket as a 2-D film. (Which is a huge reason people are going even less now - once or twice they will pay it, but after that it becomes rote and that's why 2-D showings are up over 3-D in most cases vs. a year or two ago). Truth be told, the amount of people going to the movies has been in decline since WWII. They have fought TV, then video games, and now the Internet. It's ebbed and flowed, but it's been a constant struggle to convince people they need to go to a theater. 3-D did that for a short time, and it's never gone near (nor will it ever) go back to the average person going to the movies weekly as they did in those days.

The studios were very resistant to 3-D at home, because they didn't want people to be able to pay $30 for a Blu-ray and show as many people that they want, when they got $60 from a family of four each time they went to the theater - just to see the film once. That's why there were 3-D Blu-ray players and TV's sold long before you could actually BUY a 3-D film on Blu-ray (they were often incentives if you bought a "pack" of expensive glasses, etc. - Avatar has been available like that for a year or two, it hasn't even been released officially yet - though I believe it finally will be soon). The problem was the manufacturers - the manufacturers thought everyone in the world would be all Blu-ray'd up at this point. While penetration has gone higher (mostly people replacing broken DVD players since Blu-ray players play DVDs, too), they wanted to sell more TV's and more Blu-ray players so they kind of forced the issue. It was the only way to get people who just bought expensive HDTV's to buy another one, when most people were just going and buying a cheap one at Wal-mart, because to most eyes there isn't much difference.

When I "admitted" I don't know people who watch with goofy glasses at home, you missed the point - in five years, penetration will be deeper (just by default, as by then most TV's will have 3-D standard, if people use it or not). And by then we won't be dealing with expensive goggles, Polarized technology is here but not cheap enough, but by then it will just be a light pair of glasses like you wear at the theater. (Yes, autostereoscopic like Nintendo 3Ds is also coming along, but the super-limited viewing angles inherent in the tech are at least a decade more from becoming viable for home size screens and most viewers.)

So by the time Avatar 2/3/etc. comes out, this tech will already be in homes - polarized - for anyone who does wish to see it (in truth, not many - I think it's main future is in video games). People will just wait for it to come home, even if they do care.

All that mouthful said, people largely don't care about Avatar now, and I don't think five years will help that cause.



Oh no, there are probabilities, LOL. That sounds like a self-help guru type of talk.

We'll see if it ever happens. I've been a member of this board for eight years or so, and I assume I will be in another five. I guess we will just have to come back and see how it all turns out then. We may be riding the most revolutionary attractions ever built themed around Avatar, or we might not. I tend to think we will most likely be not, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I can understand you don't like avatar and that's all good. But you admit openly that Cameron got you and teenage girls into the theaters for titanic. It also had the highest number of viewers over 50 for a film in the past 10 years before its release. I agree 3d always has and always will be about money, so no argument there. I've never been called a self help guru before so thanks, much appreciated.But think about it with the state disneys in there are no probabilities. How many things have you heard about in your 8 years here that everyone said probably would happen but didn't.I've been on the board for about three years and can remember about5/10 without researching it.
It's a bet in five years we will come back and see who was right, who was wrong and have a laugh. If the attractions arent there I'll be the first person to cover your dinner at any Disney restaurant, if they are there you can buy me a dole whip and all is good. The last paragraph in your post alone is proof to the statement there are only possibilities right now no probalities yet.
Have a good one and we can see whose right in three to five years. I'm marking it my calendar app now
No offense whose Seth and Amy.
As far as fps of course it's techy and no none is talking about it yet but that also doesn't mean that it won't become a topic in the future. It not only makes things look more fluid because of the cameras used it also brings a clearer and more lifelike image.
As far as 3d in the goes who knows where it will wind up if margins are as slim as manufacturers claim it may never go anywhere due to that and lack of content. We have it and yes I also feel like the biggest moron when I where the glasses at home. At least they are avengers ones.
I also agree blu is in a bind not only due to DVD but due to digital download services like amazon,apple and Netflix. Why pay 30/35 dollars in the store when I can download it for 20 and get the same thing just no disc
Also how many films do you know begin promotion 2/3 before release realistically only ones I can think of are the marvel films
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
If Avatar was a Disney film, I'd doubt we'd have that many people arguing that the most successful film of all time wasn't popular (???).
I agree I can understand why some people don't like it, but on this board it's treated as if the film was the worst thing put on celluloid
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
I get what everybody says about Avatar 2/3, but the thing I don't like is it's easy to say that they won't make as much money as the original. It's like saying that team X won't win the Super Bowl this year: well, yeah, there are 32 teams and only one wins so you're probably right. Are you a failure just because you can't make another $2.7B movie? If Avatar 2 makes $2.2B, is that supposed to be a failure?

I think Avatar is only wanting as a theme park property when we compare it to Harry Potter. Well, anything is going to be worse than Harry Potter... it's a once-in-a-generation-or-more property that was perfectly suited for theme park conversion. Disney really screwed it up, we're not getting Harry at WDW, and it's going to cost Disney for years (decades, I think). We're worried about how many Avatar toys people are buying? Isn't that the kind of thing that we normally let Disney worry about? We should just think about how cool the rides could be.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I feel this needs to be reposted into the Avatar thread:

As far as Everest, all I can say is keep waiting.. But Rhode is trying to bite of a chunk of the Avatar budget (since it was delayed/in limbo/never happening) and fix the yeti, address issues with infrastructure near dinorama, and build a new attraction in the area next to (huge space) Flights of wonder . (in addition to the removal/move of the train and a new path there to Rafiki's).

Yes, you heard it here first, the Avatar budget is officially being cannibalized at this point.
 

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