AVATAR land - the specifics

Beholder

Beholder

Well-Known Member
janoimagine said:
Disney has great ideas of their own that do not rely on Cameron and his IP ... Why Staggs and Iger thought this was better route to go is beyond me.
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My guess would be that they jumped on what they perceived as a "hot" property that would translate into a great theme park attraction. Trying to mimic Harry Potter, they failed to realize that HP was a fully developed story with a rich story line and a VERY huge fan base. It was a knee jerk reaction that could've be avoided had they took the time to cultivate and develop their own IP either from scratch or from an existing property. I'm not saying Pandora/Avatar can't be good, just that all these delays wouldn't exist if they'd done something in house.
 
TikiTorch

TikiTorch

Active Member
Am I mistaken, or didn't the original announcement for Pandora Land state that construction would begin in 2013? If so, why are you guys saying this project is delayed or behind schedule? Short of having truly reliable (and top-secret) inside information, I don't see how it would be possible to know that at this point, while it's still 2012.
 
janoimagine

janoimagine

Well-Known Member
Beholder said:
My guess would be that they jumped on what they perceived as a "hot" property that would translate into a great theme park attraction. Trying to mimic Harry Potter, they failed to realize that HP was a fully developed story with a rich story line and a VERY huge fan base. It was a knee jerk reaction that could've be avoided had they took the time to cultivate and develop their own IP either from scratch or from an existing property. I'm not saying Pandora/Avatar can't be good, just that all these delays wouldn't exist if they'd done something in house.
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Either that or one of Stagg's boys was an avid Avatar fan. It happened to us on Chrysler ... the lead client's wife (former EVP Jim Schroer) loved Celine Dion ... so we had to sign Celine to a deal for Chrysler ... the whole stupid 'Driver Equals Love' campaign. It honestly wouldnt surprise me with as out of touch as these executives typically are.
 
Beholder

Beholder

Well-Known Member
janoimagine said:
Either that or one of Stagg's boys was an avid Avatar fan. It happened to us on Chrysler ... the lead client's wife (former EVP Jim Schroer) loved Celine Dion ... so we had to sign Celine to a deal for Chrysler ... the whole stupid 'Driver Equals Love' campaign. It honestly
wouldnt surprise me with as out of touch as
these executives typically are.
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Wow, I certainly hope that wasn't the basis for the Avatar decision. That would be just...sad. You would hope that at that level some sort of corporate model or business doctrine would be the "blueprint" for that kind of decision.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Beholder said:
It's to bad that Disney seems to be the recipient of this "backlash", if you will, of the Avatar movie delays. Cameron, being the property owner, dictates when, if, and how any theme park attraction will be (if) implemented. Maybe a little more thought and research should've went into this "partnership" before it was announced. Cameron could, I imagine, care very little about any theme park tie in, while Disney looks kind of foolish. Again, not their fault, but maybe some forward thinking and a little self reliance (in house property) would have prevented this. Just my thoughts on it.
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Thing is, most of the world doesn't know anything about this.

Cameron has been all over the media lately (talking about Avatar and how he may do nothing for the rest of his life but make Avatar films), and I don't believe he has breathed a word about WDW. You would think he would be shouting on the rooftops how excited he was to "bring Pandora to life". He's not.

I can't really justify it academically, but to be honest I have a gut feeling the entire thing is DOA, which is A-OK by me. :)
 
John

John

Well-Known Member
This thread is titled ........Avatarland the specifics......61 ages and there are no specifics....none....nada.....zero construction to start in 2013? Wouldnt Disney announce this? Yes in some cases in the past they didnt announce projects till they were well under way, but I wouldnt think this would be the case with Avland.....they are in need of serious positive PR......why wouldnt they? IMO I have just as much confiedence in this happening as I do that DTD, Carsland,or any other announcement will be made. Seriously....the best they have come up with is bleacher seats added to Fantasmic. If you had some great project in the hopper is this what you would throw out there? Avland just as well could be Hyperion Warf or any of the announced....but ooops no it isnt goona happen projects we have seen. BTW jt is the only person who seems to think this is really going to happen.....right there is all you need to know.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
M.rudolf said:
Financing for the films is in place,that's not the issue. The hold up is the scripts aren't finished. Avatar 2/3 probably won't begin shooting till 2014 with a release date of Christmas 2016. I have never seen Spirit or Lee ask for heads to roll. I believe they both want a positive change for the parks and for the Disney company in general. How can you say they should be taken with a grain of salt at least they have insider info. The only info you have is from the deductions you make from guys like Lee and Wd74. Please don't belittle the sources we do have here,maybe one day they won't share the info they have and they will be missed. I promise you that avatar won't begin shooting before fall 2013. Due to the fact weta is booked solid until then. That's not a rumor that's a fact. With hobbit now being three films and using the soundstages that avatar will be using, that's the proof you need to prove that avatar is in limbo. The first avatar took over 7 years from start to finish. If the 2 films are shot back to back how long do you think it will take to complete these
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Lee has admitted he wanted people fired over the closure of the AC. He has never retracted that. Wdw74 calls for the firing of certain TDO managers almost weekly. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I am of the opinion they are misguided and much of what they find fault with is the result of policies rooted in the past or out of TDO's control.

I would love to hear more about your source of information/links etc. You have made the best case for why there may be a delay. The rumor that Cameron was being difficultt was just too pat and stereotypical for me to accept. Looks like my insticts were right on the matter. That they added a third hobbit film makes much more sense as a cause for delay. Cameron may be building facilities also if he plans on moving his operations there. But nothing indicates the films are in limbo. In fact, it seems they are pouring more effort into it.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
jt04 said:
Lee has admitted he wanted people fired over the closure of the AC. He has never retracted that. Wdw74 calls for the firing of certain TDO managers almost weekly. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I am of the opinion they are misguided and much of what they find fault with is the result of policies rooted in the past or out of TDO's control.

I would love to hear more about your source of information/links etc. You have made the best case for why there may be a delay. The rumor that Cameron was being difficultt was just too pat and stereotypical for me to accept. Looks like my insticts were right on the matter. That they added a third hobbit film makes much more sense as a cause for delay. Cameron may be building facilities also if he plans on moving his operations there. But nothing indicates the films are in limbo. In fact, it seems they are pouring more effort into it.
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A rumor that Cameron is being difficult is very easy to accept since his reputation is very well known. It didn't even need to be a rumor, it should have been accepted fact from day one. There is just no reason to believe Cameron would be easier to work with on this project then on anything else he has done in the past.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
A rumor that Cameron is being difficult is very easy to accept since his reputation is very well known. It didn't even need to be a rumor, it should have been accepted fact from day one. There is just no reason to believe Cameron would be easier to work with on this project then on anything else he has done in the past.
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I am sure if Walt was alive people would accuse him of being difficult these days. There is a difference between being "difficult" and demanding excellence from those around you. We have become too soft. Way too soft.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
jt04 said:
I am sure if Walt was alive people would accuse him of being difficult these days. There is a difference between being "difficult" and demanding excellence from those around you. We have become too soft. Way too soft.
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Yes, I agree, but you are denying that Cameron is being difficult at all for any reason.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
jt04 said:
Yes because I have seen no proof of the meme. And that is all it is at this point.
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There is plenty of proof, just Google James Cameron Difficult and you will find tons of articles from people who have worked with him saying how hard is it to work with. Here is one small example from article in The Independant..

Cameron "is a nightmare to work with. Studios have come to fear his habit of straying way over schedule and over budget. He is notorious on set for his uncompromising and dictatorial manner, as well as his flaming temper."

I personally have nothing against him and love all his movies, but his reputation is well documented.
 
John

John

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
Lee has admitted he wanted people fired over the closure of the AC. He has never retracted that. Wdw74 calls for the firing of certain TDO managers almost weekly. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I am of the opinion they are misguided and much of what they find fault with is the result of policies rooted in the past or out of TDO's control.
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So which one are you.....the pot or the kettle?

Everything you come up with jt is your opinion....It isnt an opinion that TDO is ran differently today then in the past. I dont think there is one member here (even you ) that will dispute that. If the policies in the past were adhered to we might not be in the situation WDW is in right now. In another thread even you called out TDO to step their game up. The most ardent supporter of Disney can not deny that WDW has reached a stagnation point. The only thing TDO can hang its hat on right now is FLE. ANything else is blue sky......period! Oh and they are expanding seating at Fantasmic.
 
V

Viget

Active Member
danlb_2000 said:
There is plenty of proof, just Google James Cameron Difficult and you will find tons of articles from people who have worked with him saying how hard is it to work with. Here is one small example from article in The Independant..

Cameron "is a nightmare to work with. Studios have come to fear his habit of straying way over schedule and over budget. He is notorious on set for his uncompromising and dictatorial manner, as well as his flaming temper."

I personally have nothing against him and love all his movies, but his reputation is well documented.
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I have the feeling that many would feel the same way about Walt today. I remember on my last trip to WDW in Feb, *just* missing the closing of the doors on CoP. While I was bummed that it would be a whole 20 minutes or so just to get on ( I don't think they were operating all of the theaters), it did give me a chance to watch the little featurette they have at the head of the queue on the making of the CoP. Walt was absolutely *obsessed* over this attraction (and some of the other 1964 World's fair projects), but definitely CoP was his baby. It was amazing what they did using 1964's tech to get realistic motions of the AAs, but it all came at a cost. In the video, Walt freely admitted to missing birthday parties, even parts of major holidays in order to meet the deadlines for the 1964 World's fair. He was all in on that and it sounded like he was working 24/7 back then, and personally supervising a lot of it.

I'd bet his imagineers were also very enthusiastic too, but honestly, how many of them could have been too jazzed about missing Christmas for this? However, they didn't have a choice, if the boss man was comitted, then so were they. Now, I'm sure that Walt treated his people a lot better than maybe Cameron did, but I don't doubt for a minute that he drove them just as hard as Cameron did. Maybe he had a little bit more tact...

My point is, while he might have been good to his people, I wouldn't be surprised that if you put Walt in today's world with budgets and ROIs and shareholder value being king, well, I bet ol' Walt wouldn't be so genteel anymore. I am sure that he would be very frank with his personal opinion, and he'd have a lot of enemies among studio executives.

It's a fine line to walk, demanding excellence, but also knowing how to "encourage" people to meet your demands without making them feel like they're being used or taken for granted in order to fulfill "your vision."
 
M.rudolf

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
Lee has admitted he wanted people fired over the closure of the AC. He has never retracted that. Wdw74 calls for the firing of certain TDO managers almost weekly. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I am of the opinion they are misguided and much of what they find fault with is the result of policies rooted in the past or out of TDO's control.

I would love to hear more about your source of information/links etc. You have made the best case for why there may be a delay. The rumor that Cameron was being difficultt was just too pat and stereotypical for me to accept. Looks like my insticts were right on the matter. That they added a third hobbit film makes much more sense as a cause for delay. Cameron may be building facilities also if he plans on moving his operations there. But nothing indicates the films are in limbo. In fact, it seems they are pouring more effort into it.
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The films are not in limbo cameron isn't happy with the story so until he is production is on hold. From what I have been told he has the last film worked out but not the second, the studios in new Zealand are jointly owned between weta and his production company. There are no money issues due to original contract hads pervisions for sequels if certain dollars were met. They were. Cameron is very difficult from experience he can be rude and obnoxious, then 2 minutes later be gentle as a lamb. I can give you any info on the films but as far as the parks are concerned very few people are in the know. I would say possibly a total of 15/20 people know exactly whats going on with them, I do know that the parks aren't dependent on the films other than for visuals. I was also told that Cameron is just as hands on with this as he is the movies so one will be delayed so the other can finish. This is just my opinion Disney will walk away due to the length of time it will take to finish and having to deal with Cameron's unpredictable nature. On set hes a lot like Stephen langs character. As far as who my source is i ain't telling but he is trustworthy
 

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