captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Toy Story Mania is insanely popular, though honestly, I can't see why. I mean, it's fun and all, but not worth a 2 hour wait.
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AVATAR land - the specifics
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Toy Story Mania is insanely popular, though honestly, I can't see why. I mean, it's fun and all, but not worth a 2 hour wait.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I agree; TSM has been popular. Part of it is because of the theme; young or old, who doesn't love Toy Story? (Rhetorical question. I don't really want an answer.) However, part of it is capacity; TSM handles so few people per hour that lines get long quickly. Most know they need to get there early if they want a FP. It's like a new restaurant that has too few tables.
To clarify, by a WDW hit, I mean something that boosted attendance. DHS's attendance is pretty much the same pre and post TSM. According to TEA:
- DHS 2007 attendance: 9.5M
- DHS 2008 attendance (TSM opened May 2008): 9.6M
- DHS 2009 attendance: 9.7M
Conversely, DAK has overtaken DHS as WDW's third most popular theme park.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Cameron doesn't go ahead with a film until he's satisfied with plans for it. That being said, trying to film *three* Avatar sequels at the same was just plain nutty, IMHO. It makes more sense, to do one sequel at a time and then gauge the audience's reaction. Star Wars Episode 1 wasn't as big of a fan hit as other Star Wars films, and Lucas improved on the prequels such as that Episode 3 was almost on the level of the first three films.
J. K. Rowling had a bad experience with Disney not giving her everything she wanted, but it was a learning experience. Universal also had to explain why certain ideas of her were impractical and of course, creative compromises were made.
The problem comparing Harry Potter and Avatar is that the Harry Potter franchise is alot more established than Avatar. There's enough material in the Potter books to build two theme parks and Harry did a slew of successful films. Avatar was a big success in part because of 3-D and because of the military vs. blue people fight scenes. Kinda hard to see how Avatar 2 could be similarly successful.
In the end, Avatar really doesn't mesh well with Disney. The film had a lead character who smoked, gratuitous violence, weird dying scenes and the one guy coming back as a smuff on steroids, and the main characters were adults who are easily forgettable as the film was about action first and foremost. A lot of the main military characters were straight out of G.I. Joe, not sure how'd they bring them back for 2, or how 2 could have as compelling a storyline as the first one. It would be like trying to make Titanic 2, IMHO.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is just me but I think these "creative differences" were always inevitable because James Cameron is involved. And I think it's really difficult to compare what is happening with Avatarland to Disney's negotiations for Harry Potter because the circumstances are different; Rowling knew she could play hard-ball because if things fell through with Disney, Universal were waiting in the wings and something could happen there that might be more amenable to what she wanted. If Disney breaks ties with Cameron, is there another company or theme park who will be as desperate to collaborate with him as Universal were with Rowling? Disney CAN come up with something to combat HP, they don't need Avatar or James Cameron and this collaboration was always going to be volatile because of the players involved. It could get resurrected, who knows what might happen in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't and Disney and Cameron go their separate ways.
tomman710
Well-Known Member
BREAKING NEWS: Here is an excerpt leaked from high level meetings about the Avatarland at DAK and why talks may have stalled ...
TDO and Cameron meeting 8/28/2012:
TDO: "Look at what we have planned for the world of Avatar, Mr. Cameron!"
TDO holds up a beautifully landscaped area with fastpass signs for an attraction called Avatar Encounter!
Cameron: "Ohh Avatar Encounter, that sounds neat, what's that?"
TDO: "Well, you walk through a jungle until you get to a little military outpost. Then you go in ... then a CM writes down your name and says welcome to Pandora Base Cadet "NAME" and they give you a cardboard cutout of a Naavi and you walk into another room, grey I think, maybe ash colored, and in there a CM in character as a military officer trains you how to hold your cardboard cutout in a way that makes you an Avatar, you know like holding it up to your face, and then you get to act out the story, stop me if you need to catch your breath ... and then you act out the story of Avatar! So you can make the check out to TDO ... you're welcome."
Cameron: "Um ... how much will that cost?"
TDO: "It will cost 100 million ... wait wait wait ... I know that sounds high but we are going to put LED lights in plants, so you know ... and of course we are going to stretch it out over 4 years to spread the CapEx dollars ... so you know, smart, right?"
TDO and Cameron meeting 8/28/2012:
TDO: "Look at what we have planned for the world of Avatar, Mr. Cameron!"
TDO holds up a beautifully landscaped area with fastpass signs for an attraction called Avatar Encounter!
Cameron: "Ohh Avatar Encounter, that sounds neat, what's that?"
TDO: "Well, you walk through a jungle until you get to a little military outpost. Then you go in ... then a CM writes down your name and says welcome to Pandora Base Cadet "NAME" and they give you a cardboard cutout of a Naavi and you walk into another room, grey I think, maybe ash colored, and in there a CM in character as a military officer trains you how to hold your cardboard cutout in a way that makes you an Avatar, you know like holding it up to your face, and then you get to act out the story, stop me if you need to catch your breath ... and then you act out the story of Avatar! So you can make the check out to TDO ... you're welcome."
Cameron: "Um ... how much will that cost?"
TDO: "It will cost 100 million ... wait wait wait ... I know that sounds high but we are going to put LED lights in plants, so you know ... and of course we are going to stretch it out over 4 years to spread the CapEx dollars ... so you know, smart, right?"
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Bob Iger pretty much looked at Avatar as the next big thing, like maybe a Star Wars, even though the film doesn't compare with Star Wars when you look at the big story arcs for Star Wars that are introduced in the first film. Iger basically made a deal with Cameron because Avatar was making a lot of money, so of course putting Avatarland in AK would make a lot of money for the company.
Well, the Twilight saga also made a lot of money, as did Hunger Games, and Disney won't be building a "Hunger Games" land anytime soon! Some films do well as films, have interesting environments, but wouldn't necessarily work well as a whole land. Avatarland is sort of like somebody wants to make "Inceptionland" because Inception was a big hit and it would be cool to see streets bend upwards and maybe Inception will be the new Star Wars.
Cameron's Terminator 2 was good, of course, but it was a similar story to the first Terminator, the thing that can't be killed in the nightmare that won't end comes back.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
I liked how Iger did the deal and decided Disney would collaborate with Cameron, then announced he was leaving the company; I said a while back that I was worried he could be leaving a messy and costly mistake behind that he could wash his hands of once he stepped down as CEO. The ways things are going, Iger might be gone before they even break ground on Avatarland, if it does ever happen.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Exactly. And they just announced the project with Disney plastered over an Avatar poster and they had a photoshopped Mickey turned into an Avatar blue person, no concept art at all. I think it was sort of a way to disrupt the media attention around Harry Potter, Iger touting the "big fish" film he reeled in for Disney.
Since Iger is leaving the company, (to be a politician in New York), folks who will have to deal with Avatarland for the rest of their career are probably happy that Avatarland is going to development purgatory. I kind of think of Avatarland as Iger's foley.
Plus, why would Disney help advertise a franchise they didn't own with a whole new land? It's not like Disney/Pixar aren't coming out with great films and even their own tentpoles. Star Wars has its own fan following that wouldn't necessarily be boosted with a Star Wars land, whereas Avatar kind of needs the AK project as there was no cliffhanger at the end of Avatar, and I don't think most people are getting super excited about Avatar 2.
The MaD Hatter
Well-Known Member
According to my insider sources (i.e., magic 8 ball), the current status of Avatarland is: Concentrate and ask again! 
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
On paper it sounds a good idea; a film that's made a lot of money, it has new technology (but not an original or particularly great story), the theme fits AK and the director is a perfectionist. I just wonder how much preparation and thought Disney, specifically Iger, put into the deal before signing off on it. Again I might be wrong or misinformed here but surely it would make sense for Disney to meet with Cameron and come up with some kind of an idea for what to do with Avatarland before making the deal official and then finding out that their ideas were miles apart from his. How much input did WDI have in the deal before Iger signed off on it or was this something decided by the Board without consultation with the creative people within the company who would then have to collaborate and work with Cameron?
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
It seems like very little, to no, creative work was done. If it was something they'd been secretly working on for months, I bet they would have released some concept art to get the public excited and more favorable media. Even before they decided to go with the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train coaster, they released concept art of Pixie Hollow.
i hope it doesn't get canceled, because as much as i dont like the movie, i think they could do some really amazing things with the land. If we want a project the size of carsland or harry potter to come to the world, i think this is the closest we will get for atleast 10 years.
Thats only because of lassater. Lassater was the one that forced carsland to be what it was. So if james Cameron is that same type of person than why wouldn't we expect a great land.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Here's the thing about making a lot of money. Just because a film brings in a ton of money doesn't = it's been embraced by the masses who then want to see it in a Disney park, which it is obviously perfect for! There's a clear difference from past attractions inspired by non-Disney movies like Star Wars and Indiana Jones. By the time Disney created attractions based on those, they each had a successful trilogy and were among the most beloved and popular movies of all time. Everyone knew the characters, the music, the spaceships, laser swords, fedora + whip + leather jacket, etc. Each of those series really defined an entire genre! They'll survive a very long time in the Disney parks.
Avatar? Avatar??
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
I know some have speculated that Disney's moving Kathy Mangum to WDW was to bring CarsLand to the world, and they may actually be looking at that, but there may be more behind that move if this news about Cameron is true. They may have already realized that the Avatar project is going the way of the David Copperfield's Magic Underground, and disappearing before it even appeared and scrambling to prepare something to bridge the gap until or in case Avatar doesn't get built.
So, the question now becomes, what's Kathy's role and where is she aiming her sights? Also, when will Disney shut the door on Cameron, and will he land at Universal?
So, the question now becomes, what's Kathy's role and where is she aiming her sights? Also, when will Disney shut the door on Cameron, and will he land at Universal?
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, I agree Avatar has a long way to go before it catches up with those films you mentioned in making a significant impact on popular culture, if it ever does. But I think that's what Disney went on, they looked at the figures and assumed that it had made that kind of an impact and would straightaway provide competition to HP at Universal. The reaction to the Avatarland announcement is proof enough to me that it's not the powerhouse that Star Wars or Harry Potter is. I don't like the film but perhaps, once the sequels get made, it can have that kind of lasting impact but it's too early to say right now.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
According to Jim Hill, it was Cameron himself who requested Mangum be put on his Avatar project after seeing how successful she was with Carsland.
The idea was, here's the next big job, let's put the right woman in charge.
Real Disney Fan
Banned
There's a lot of people wishing upon a star here for something. I'm not convinced that you aren't all just extremely biased, and that the Avatar project will eventually come to fruition.